I think I've broken my system :( Suggestions? Or beyond economic repair?

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

I have an old Core2 Duo E6600 desktop system that I built back in 2007. I can't quite believe that it's 7 years old and (was) still mostly quick enough - how times have changed!

Anyway - it's fine for my needs except Lightroom was starting to fill up the 4Gb of RAM so I thought I'd upgrade. I couldn't remember the type of memory I had so I took a stick out.

Big mistake. After I put it back the computer wouldn't boot and wouldn't give any POST beeps. To confirm it was a memory problem I took all the sticks out and, reassuringly, the beeps went crazy. So it was probably just some dust that had got into the RAM slots; after a blast of air, it seemed to work - but it wasn't stable (Windows 7 froze once while I left Lightroom processing some photos all day, then it kept hanging on startup). So I re-seated the RAM.

All seemed OK until a few days later, and now it's either hanging on startup or not doing its POST again. I've tried starting it up with only one pair of RAM in (tried one of both pairs in all slots to try to eliminate faulty RAM or faulty slots) but no luck. I'm starting to get concerned that, by pulling out and re-seating the RAM so much, I could be wearing out the RAM slots (most connectors like this have a limited number of connection-disconnection cycles - I have no idea what the standard for RAM is?).

The thing is that the computer has been shipped between countries three times in its life (I've moved around a fair bit), it's had an SSD added, and, most worryingly, when I was working on it a couple of screws fell out from somewhere. I have no idea how they became loose or how they got there but I'm concerned they might have fried something.

I have some more RAM on the way that I'd already ordered from Amazon but I don't want to break that open if it means I can't send it back and it turns out that the PC/mobo is dead. (I really hope all the startup crashes haven't hurt my SSD!)

I'm conscious that, with a top-end motherboard-CPU-RAM kit costing £520-£620 from Amazon, spending more than a little bit of money and effort on a 7-year old PC makes very, very little sense.

Any thoughts about what other fixes I can try? Or am I flogging a dead horse? I really had hoped to put off replacing my PC for at least another year or two.

AMD Radeon · Nov 10, 2013

you can buy whole new lightroom PC with that budget

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

AMD Radeon :

While I've recently brought myself up to date with the hardware that's on the market I have no clue what is good for what, and I realise that the days of needing a high-end PC even for gaming are long gone. So I have no idea what I would need to spend to achieve what I want.

Anyway - that's for another thread!

For now, am I missing something obvious with my old workhorse?

AMD Radeon · Nov 10, 2013

i5 haswell
2x 8GB of ram... 16GB will be a plenty for large raw image editing
Samsung SSD for speed up workflow
no-dedicated GPU for power efficiency and avoiding noise
small compact case

good luck

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£144.62 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H81M-HD3 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£47.17 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£114.88 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£69.00 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£43.90 @ CCL Computers)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (£28.49 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 450W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£35.10 @ Aria PC)
Total: £483.16
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-10 10:05 GMT+0000)

Vic 40 · Nov 10, 2013

Did you try a clear cmos? Either by moving the right jumper for about 5 seconds or taking the pc of the power=out of the wallsocket and removing the motherboard battery for about a half hour or so.
Maybe even a good moment to change that battery,it can't cost much.

After the clear cmos you will have to go in to the bios and choose the optimal defaultsettings again and maybe look at the time and date,they might have to be reset again.Don't forget to save with F10+Y.

Also look if you accidentally pulled a cable by messing

in the pc.
Maybe unplugging and plugging them in again is a good thing to do anyway.

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

Good ideas, Vic. I haven't done anything to the CMOS because I have a bluetooth Logitech keyboard that doesn't work before Windows starts up and I've mislaid my old PS2 keyboard somewhere. I'll borrow a keyboard later today and reset the BIOS later today, and if that doesn't work I'll pull everything apart and put it all back together again. It's a shame if I have broken it though - I always used to give my old PCs to my dad to use; this would be the first time I've not done that!

AMD - that's a great little system there! I had been looking at i7 Haswell builds (probably just because I was suffering from kit greed, as I always do) but if the i5 is plenty then it's a much better option, bang-for-buck. It also changes the economics as I already have most of the components on that list, as I have been adding & updating my PC since '07: I have a 120Gb SSD, 1x 1TB SATA drive and 1x 2TB SATA drive so don't need storage, and I should be able to re-use my Enermax PSU and my Lian-Li case shouldn't I?

Regarding GPU - I have two 19" monitors that I want to keep using so need dual outputs; could I reuse my old ATI Radeon X1950 GPU? Or is there a good value newer card with dual-DVI that I'd be better off buying? And, if I get round to replacing my monitors, are good photographers' monitors still using DVI or are they HDMI? (I wouldn't want to saddle myself with a GPU that would also need replacing.)

Another question - I don't have much time to play PC games these days but I was a Total War fan from the beginning and have been wanting to play Rome 2 (as well as Napoleon, which I only ever installed and never played!). Would this system manage that?

Thanks for all the help & advice guys, it's very much appreciated!

AMD Radeon · Nov 10, 2013

even IGPU intel can deliver dual monitor at 2x 23" 1920x1080

i use it at my office pc

why bother using noisy X1950?

anyway, you can always re-use that

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

AMD Radeon :

Didn't know that, good point! Happy to ditch the GPU but I've been doing some research and can't find an LGA 1150 mobo with 2x DVI, any suggestions? I'd like something with a decent number of USB ports (with a few being USB3) and onboard wifi or a couple of PCI-E ports to add both later but otherwise I see no benefit in the expensive enthusiast boards I keep coming across.

AMD Radeon · Nov 10, 2013

you can always use mobo with HDMI + DVI
the one i listed above

use HDMI to DVI converter/cable, and then you have 2x DVI

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

How did I not think that might be an option! Haha awesome, perfect.

What's the stock cooler on the i5 like? I've always bought 3rd party to keep noise down and for performance but would be more than happy not to bother.

AMD Radeon · Nov 10, 2013

stock cooler is good and it also cools mobo's capacitor

good luck, i love to see powerful + minimalist build

if you find it helpful, please select as best answer

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

Done - altho I'd like to select all the answers here as best answers, yours and Vic's!

After a bit of research I'm now thinking of going for this combo: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/209PF

Vic 40 · Nov 10, 2013

For just a bit more you have the next parts which will give you the option of overclocking if you are interested,

PCPartPicker part list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/20ggu

Price breakdown by merchant: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/20ggu/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/20ggu/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£165.59 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Pro4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£85.42 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£93.55 @ Amazon UK)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN3800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (£19.98 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £364.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-10 19:33 GMT+0000)

Maybe overclocking isn't for you,but it's a free way of getting extra speed in your system.

Feanor_ · Nov 10, 2013

Ahh I knew this was too simple and I was missing that option that's just a little better!

I bought my last system with a view to overclocking when it began to slow down a bit but never got round to it, and then it wasn't really worth bothering.
I don't think I want to overclock; I imagine that, as before, by the time the computer gets too slow it'll probably be due an upgrade anyway, and I want to keep things simple (I'm so fed up with computers needing constant maintenance that I nearly went for a Mac this time! But a £360 upgrade vs a hugely expensive mac is a no-brainer.)
And if I'm not going to overclock, as far as I can tell, the 4670 isn't much faster?

Vic 40 · Nov 10, 2013

Well it's all up to you ,but it's for about the same price,the difference is about 5 pounds,so you could always think about it.You would have that option.

The 4670 is indeed not that much quicker on it's own,there's a difference of 200mhz compared with the 4570.Whether you think that's worth the extra cash is up to you.

You still could take a look at the ram i chose,it's quite a bit cheaper.At least you would have saved a bit of money.

Feanor_ · Nov 11, 2013

I'm reluctant to go for 4x4 Gb as it'd mean that if I do need to upgrade I'll have to replace it all; I made this mistake with my old PC.

I'm uncertain about the ASRock mobo - seems like VERY good value, almost too good as it's the cheapest Z87 I can find, and generally I've found you pay for what you get. Unless what I'm getting with the pricier mobos is mostly just a name? My top priority is rock solid stability and minimal hassle, above speed & performance.

Vic 40 · Nov 11, 2013

Like i said,it's up to you.

Feanor_ · Nov 11, 2013

Vic 40 :

Fair enough! Trouble is, I'm the sort of person who likes to understand everything and make fully informed choices - which when it comes to decisions that are largely subjective but arguably shouldn't be, such as motherboard brands, I end up going round and round in circles.

Anyway - thanks for all the help, has given me food for thought - and it gave me the starting info I needed to do my own research; until this thread I had been sucked in by all the stuff online saying the i7 is the CPU to get, etc.

Vic 40 · Nov 11, 2013

Wel,asrock is a solid brand so you don't have to be worried about that.
Some others here about the one i chose,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1812370/asrock-z87-pro4-good-overclocking.html

If you're just not comfortable with overclocking then just don't do it.It just gives you some extra speed now or when you need it later on.The H87 board will otherwise do fine and a 4570 or 4670 will be good too.

A review about the Z77 version of it,maybe it gives an idea of how the Z87 will do,
http://www.eteknix.com/asrock-z77-pro4-z77-motherboard-review/
i didn't find one about the Z87.

emj503 · Nov 11, 2013

AMD Radeon :

Quick question for you mr amd. why recommend the haswell solo in a system? wouldn't a amd apu be the better choice for a system with no dedicated gpu? such as the a10-68k or a10-58k would even be better. just curious

AMD Radeon · Nov 12, 2013

^ for your requirement, the answer is a big NO
lightroom and another adobe program need very powerful cpu horse power
AMD APU A10 fails to provide this, even if it is theoretically 4 cores

I think I've broken my system :( Suggestions? Or beyond economic repair?

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