Looking for Watercooling advice on my second rig

Garzhad

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Nov 11, 2013
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10,510
Hey all. As the title says, this is the second rig i've built myself, and looking into breaking into watercooling for better temps/less Mobo clutter from the gargantuan air coolers, with noise being a tertiary concern, long as it' a straight Hum less then 50DB or so;Old rig was an antec 900 decked out with 4x30Db tri-cools and the top-mounted 200mm big boy and I didn't think it was uncomfortably loud, for reference.

Primarily i'm just looking to cool my CPU, an i5 3570k. My case is a Coolermaster HAF-XM, PSU is Corsair AX760i platinum powering an Asus 8z77-V Pro with Very low profile Crucial ballistics memory.
Possible Rad mounting configurations that i can see are(in max lengthxdepth):
Top outside: 240/280mm(360mm possible with modding?)X45mm, push fans only(unless thin rad with 15mm pull fans)
Top inside: 240/280/360mmX33.6mm, pull fans only(push/pull possible on 240mm with fans overhanging ram/VRM, or alternatively a very thick >58.6mm rad with pull fans, though in either case i would be restricted to having only 4-6 screws securing the rad to the case due to positioning)
Back inside: 140mmX(seemingly any depth, really) push/pull
Back outside: 240/280/360/420mmX(any) push/pull using a rad box or other kind of mounting bracket.
HDD tray: 240mmX~23-27mm(leaves space for GPU) pull fans only(push won't mount right)
I have two open optical bays for a bay reservoir.

While I have no intentions of water cooling my next GPU(single GTX 780) due to costs and common sense(for the cost of a 780 and a water block I could just get a 780TI with superior performance...) having the capability to add one in the future if finances improve would be nice if I go full custom.

I'm really not looking to spend more then ~$200 total on this, which to my understanding basically limits me to AIO or small custom loop kits, though with black friday on the horizon a much better kit might fall within that price range so solutions up to the $300-350 range might be feasible.

On the AIO front I was looking at the H110/H100i by Corsair, the X60 Kraken by NZXT and the Water 2.0/3.0 Extremes by Thermaltake, though i'm open to more suggestions. I can get X60's/H110's for about $118 currently, H100i for $130, 2.0's for $60 after rebate and 3.0's for $110. My main concerns with them are the tubing and the radiator material. Is dry-rotting a potential hazard with those tubes(thought i heard something about that before)? And correct me if i'm wrong, but both use copper blocks and aluminum radiators, won't corrosion gradually destroy these coolers or does the coolant they use not permit that? Haven't come across anything about it before.
From what i've seen from identical-fan benchmarks, the h110 actually pretty handily kills the x60 by 4.5Celsius, but the pump may be noisier, and is matched by the smaller Water 2.0 Extreme that is literally half the price ATM. Both the H110 and 2.0 seem to only be a few degrees hotter then a swiftech h220 for drastically less $$$, though the swiftech may be a much better performer as the clocks/volts/temps increase?

As for what folks consider Real watercooling setups, i'm mostly looking at kits for the sheer simplicity and quality assurance of having everything i'd need all at once guaranteed to work together, with the plus of being able to upgrade various components down the line if I need it(fancier tubing or a better pump or reservoir, more effective rad ect. once I learn more) at a lower cost than buying them separate(less shipping charges involved, large price cuts if it goes on sale, ect)
For these I was looking at the Swiftech H20-220 and 320 HD/Elites and the dizzying array of XSPC kits, primarily the XSPC kits due to the superior upgradability and (seemingly) price as well, though i'm open to other recommendations. The 220/320 Elites could possibly fit in the top inside spot but the HD's could definitely have to be mounted externally to the back. I have a heckuva lot more places I could put the various XSPC kits rads since they don't have the integrated reservoir.

Based on all the info i've provided, does anyone have any advice/recommendations on which way(AIO/custom) to go and what kits would be best based on what I can mount and what i'm looking to cool? I've read through a number of water cooling stickies on sites, but while they are chock full of awesome tidbits of info I havent really come away from them with a sense of what I Really need for cooling what I want, plenty of do's and don'ts on components and coolants and testing but nothing really.... specific. Any help is much appreciated.
 
Solution
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103196&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

Cooler Master partnered with Swiftech to develop this unit. It's designed to be "opened" up in the future so you can add a reservoir, add another radiator or Gpu block. It's right in your budget and offers excellent performance.

I like the idea of mounting the rad.'s on the top myself. You mentioned the h220, and this set would be the next logical step after that, since the h220 isn't allowed for sale in the US any longer.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103196&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

Cooler Master partnered with Swiftech to develop this unit. It's designed to be "opened" up in the future so you can add a reservoir, add another radiator or Gpu block. It's right in your budget and offers excellent performance.

I like the idea of mounting the rad.'s on the top myself. You mentioned the h220, and this set would be the next logical step after that, since the h220 isn't allowed for sale in the US any longer.
 
Solution

Garzhad

Honorable
Nov 11, 2013
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10,510


Nice find, worth keeping in mind, though from what I can see the Raystorm EX240 is $10 more and superior in pretty well every metric. Nice product, bad price point.
 

Garzhad

Honorable
Nov 11, 2013
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10,510


Yeah the 750's are the 'budget' Raystorm kits from what I can tell. These are distinguished from the non-750's by mediocre-average pumps(~60% as powerful as a D5) that are seemingly built into the reservoir and non-replaceable, meaning if I wanted to upgrade the pump down the line i'd have to chuck out around $90-105 for a D5 variant pump And another $50 or so for a new reservoir.

You have to be careful with the reservoirs in XSPC kits though, check the visuals. They've apparently addressed the issue but not to long back due to improper screw count(4 vs the needed 5) the tops would warp and in several cases coolant would leak out. That one looks fine, but while F-CPU may just not have updated the pics, some of their kits still have pics showing the faulty reservoirs.

That should be more then enough rad/pump for what even a rather heavily OC'ed intel i7 can put out, probably AMD too. Highly doubt it could handle an OC'ed GTX 780 too tho, those can spit out over 300W easy, would need a 360-420 rad with a D5 for that I think, on the safe side. But, won't be doing that for Awhile, if ever. Some of those uni-mounts for the GPU look nice though, if I can keep reusing it... Meh. Save now, pay more later, or pay more now and not have to worry about it. Hate those kinda conundrums.

Oh, just noticed, the 750 EX 360 is the same price and should fit easy, too. It's a small 3 x 120mm though, barely more volume, more fans though, so should still perform somewhat better. 750 AX 360's even better for a bit more, but it won't fit up top due to the ports, and may be too wide for underneath, would have to measure. Can always back mount I guess. Still, good kits. Still crossing my fingers hoping that the high-end AX's get price slashed for BF XD

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions so far, leading me off in various directions XD Havta say, researching up all the info has been real interesting, trying to wrap my brain around it all. Definitely getting there.
 

Garzhad

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Nov 11, 2013
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Kinda just struck me, does it matter whether the pumps integrated with the Reservoir, the cpu waterblock(as in the Apogee Drive 2) or by itself in the bottom of the case as far as cooling goes?
I mean, common sense would suggest the integrated pumps would perform better since there's less tubing for the water to get pumped through, though i'm wondering if any potential vibration from the motor could affect the CPU in the case of the Apogee. Seems like it'd be easier to prevent dry-pump running if its integrated into the reservoir too, as long as the reservoir's filled enough the pump will have water.
 
No. There isn't any discernible difference in where the pump is located. If it's a separate part though, makes it easier to replace if you need to. I love Swiftech myself. Been following them for 12 years or so. If I had the money, I'd put together a custom kit using their parts only.
 

Garzhad

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Nov 11, 2013
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Good to know. I'm not so sure about how easy it is to change the Apogee block, but most of the good dual-bay reservoirs allow you to screw in just the pump motor, letting you save a few bucks on replacements by buying just the motor instead of the housing.
You can do that for instance on the Alphacool VPP655 pumps and other D5 variants(that can all screw in to the same D5 compatible reservoirs). Just the motor is $90, whereas the standalone unit is $120. The higher end reservoirs even support multiple pumps for redundancy and extra flow rate, letting you save even more interior space if you happen to need/want multi-pumps.
Anyway, I figured the most heat the system would ever have to dissipate is about 530W. 375W for a GTX 780(this also future proofs against new cards in the future. 375W is the max a single card can draw with the pci-e slot and 2x8pin pwr connectors, which even Air-cooled GTX 780's come pretty close too) leaves 155 for the CPU alone, which is more then what even 1.5v@5GHz would put out, so that should be enough, lol.
Just need to do more measurements and try to figure out how much rad i'd need. And whether i'm better of push-pulling with the thinner rads that i can, or going thicker with either push or pull. Thinner is supposed to be better(no one says how Much, though...)
Also wondering how much the HDD bay rad would actually help, considering it'd lower the effectiveness of any other rad used since it'd be dumping it's heat into the air the other rads would be using to dump theirs in. Might be better off sticking with a single top 280-360mm and supplementing with a 140 on the back exhaust later if need be. Hmm. Less tubing that way too.
 
The drive bay radiator will only help for a little while. More liquid means it can handle more heat overall, until all of the water reaches a certain point where it won't get any hotter. A smaller reservoir just means that the water heat reaches that point sooner, but either way it will reach that point eventually. At that point, it's up to the radiator to be able to dissipate heat, and either the 2 x 140mm or 3 x 120mm would be best for that.
 

Garzhad

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Nov 11, 2013
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10,510

Oh, the reservoir in either case would be a dual 5.25" bay. I wasn't talking about drive bay rads. By HDD bay rad i'm talking about the mount point for a 240mm radiator on the side of the HDD bays mentioned in my OP.