Upgrade to i7 4930k or wait?

srdit · Nov 23, 2013

I'm kind of stuck.

My motherboard broke recently and although I have already been considering an upgrade for quite some time, I didn't really want to upgrade now. I'm an architecture student and use the PC mostly for CAD, 3d modelling and visualization (AutoCAD, Revit, Cinema 4D) and Adobe's graphic applications (above all Photoshop and InDesign). Besides that, I used it to play games, but I'm not really a huge gamer (Deus Ex, Metro 2033, Skyrim).

The system I bought three years ago actually worked quite well for what I was doing given the budget I spent on it:

CPU: AMD A3 Phenom II X6 1055T
CPU-cooler: Alpenföhn Brocken
MoBo: Gigabyte GA-870-UD3
RAM: 2 x 4GB PC3-10667 CL9 Kingston Value Kit
PSU: be quiet Straight Power E8 500W
CASE: Sharkoon Nightfall 455 x 202 x 440 mm

I also have a 128 GB Crucial m4 SSD inside, a 250 GB SATA II Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 HDD, a GTX 560 Ti OC 1GB and Sound Blaster Audigy SE which uses the PCI slot. I use a 24" 1920x1200 screen.

Now, since I do a lot of renderings and also want to specialize further in that area, I am quite allured by the i7 4930k, and I wouldn't mind giving 750-800 EUR for CPU+MoBo if it would satisfy my needs for the next, say, three years; I have also considered buying a new case and a new PSU to have more peace of mind should I ever want to upgrade during that period - I have already been constrained in the choice of the GPU with the current case (no longer than 280 mm). I also want to change my GPU for a GTX 780 relatively soon.

But I just don't want to be in a similar situation in, say, three years and not be able to upgrade my processor if I buy the LGA2011 socket now. This is exactly what happened to me with the current system, the AM3/AM3+ turned out to be kind of a dead end, even if my motherboard hadn't died. On the other hand, buying a replacement motherboard now (Asus M5A97 Evo R2.0 for exmple) just to be able to work further till I definitely decide seems kind of like wasting money, If I am determined to upgrade no later than Spring next year anyway.

Would you, in my place:

1. Buy the Asus M5A97 Evo R2.0 (or any other suggestions?) as a replacement, accept the pointless expense, keep the rest as it is and wait up for a better moment to upgrade

2. When already exchanging the motherboard for an AM3+ (since no real price advantage from another AM3 and scarce already anyway) upgrade perhaps to FX-8350

3. Use the existing case and PSU and just exchange the motherboard and CPU, (would that be realistic, concerning power supply and air flow? could I even use the Alpenföhn on the i7 4930k and would that make sense?)

4. Upgrade now completely, new case, new PSU, 2011 socket + CPU (or other socket and other cpu and why?) migrate the GPU, sound card etc. and sell the remaining parts from the old system as used

I would hugely appreciate the help,
srdit

srdit · Nov 24, 2013

bouncedk :

Thank you very much for your reply. Although I actually thought more like "which ONE of the four options would you choose in my place"

))

But I don't quite understand - how would buying two motherboards within less than 6 months save me money? Also, for whom is i7 4930k not pointless and why? I couldn't imagine it to be bad for rendering, the only thing i could understand is that perhaps the 4820k wouldn't perform that much worse but would save me 200 EUR. I wouldn't mind, if there were prospect of a reasonable upgrade, say, three years from now for the same socket. I just don't want to be in a similar situation as now - the 1055T costs almost the same and the only upgrade for the AM3, even if available, doesn't justify the cost at all.

Also, how much stronger is a FX-8350 (or 8320 for that matter) really to justify the upgrade? For me it seems kind of like a too small leap from what I already have.

The idea with keeping a backup rig never really occurred to me, thanks for that, although one can use a laptop as well.

Thanks!
Any more suggestions anyone?

srdit · Nov 27, 2013

I've been comparing benchmarks and prices and reading around the internet, and it seems it really isn't the best moment for an upgrade. I guess I've decided to wait at least till spring and keep the current setup, exchanging the motherboard.

For basically the same price (5,00 EUR difference), would you buy an ASUS M5A97 Evo R2.0 or an ASUS M5A99X Evo (non - R2.0)?
I'm certainly not going to use more than one, existing GPU. Which one would be better if I decide to OC the existing 1055t?

RobCrezz · Nov 27, 2013

If you really can afford socket 2011 and a 4930k, it will be superb. But in your place, I would probably go for the 8350/8320, as its great at productivity for so much less money.

srdit · Nov 27, 2013

RobCrezz :

Thanks for your reply!

Money is not an issue, I don't mind spending 750 - 800 EUR on a CPU + MoBo, as long as I will be able to work efficiently for the next couple of years. My only issue is that I don't want to be stuck again in three years or so if I want to upgrade, or if any of the critical components should break outside their warranty (as is the case now). This is one of the reasons why I was considering the X79 Asus Sabertooth, it has 5 years warranty! (and also PCI and eSATA, which I currently both use) - although it's basically a gaming board, from what I've understood.

In other words, I don't think by any means that it would be an overkill for what I do (Physical Renderer in Cinema 4D, many higher quality global illumination settings) and I don't mind paying the "premium" price, I just hate investing in technology which is basically dying out. The question is, is 4930k really the end of the road for LGA2011?

How much does upgrading to 8350/8320 from 1055T really bring? New AM3+ Board, 8350 + assembly = approximately 300 EUR. X79 board, 4930k, new case, new PSU = approx. 1000 EUR. I'm not sure how long I would be satisfied with just the slighter upgrade to an AM3+ CPU, and upgrading twice within less than 12 months is pretty much a waste of money. Actually, I'd probably settle with a 4820k without hesitation if I knew that I can switch to another CPU in 2-3 years that is MORE than 4930k. Otherwise, I guess I'd just bite the bullet and go with the 4930k right away.

RobCrezz · Nov 27, 2013

I wouldnt even consider the 4820k, a Z87 board with the 4770k would be better value for money and equal performance if not better in most things.

Its hard to say, because the 8350 is very capable in multithreaded workloads due to the 8 integer cores, but ultimately the 4930k will be better, but I don't believe its worth the extra 700 euros.

Its worth checking if many of your apps can be GPU accelerated, as if they can either by CUDA or OpenCL/OpenGL then your money might be better spent there matched with either a 8350 or a 4770k.

srdit · Nov 27, 2013

RobCrezz :

That's a very interesting thought. I've been planning to upgrade the GPU from the current gtx 560 Ti to a gtx 780 anyway. Especially when one takes a look at this:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AutoDesk-AutoCAD-2014-Professional-GPU-Acceleration-504/

Interesting how the "gaming" Z87 seems to outperform the "enthusiast" X79. The question remains, of course, to what amount this applies cards like the gtx 780, i.e. how much the gpu acceleration of a gtx 780 would really help. Such comparisons usually compare the strongest consumer cards with the broad spectrum of the workstation cards, comparisons of consumer cards in the approx. 200 - 500 EUR price range with the lower end workstation gpus are rare. I for my part know that the short excursion with a FirePro v4900 would have been a terribly bad decision, and am very glad that I could still return it and take a GTX 560 Ti instead, for Revit, 3dsMax, Cinema 4D, it proved to be much, much better. The FirePro only won out slightly with AutoCAD, and that only when installing the additional plug-ins for AutoCAD.

So basically, either take the risk and spend the most money for the current premium, and perhaps regret later in 2014 when much better CPUs arrive to the market for a similar amount of money, or spend ca. 300 EUR now for sort of a temporary upgrade and upgrade later to a larger case, stronger PSU, new MoBo + CPU when Intel's next generation arrives. Or opt for a middle solution, Z87 + 4770k, which is, kind of... neither fish nor fowl :-\ too expensive to be only temporary, too weak to justify itself in the long run.

Oh well, decisions, decisions... I've even been considering leaving the desktop as it is for now till a better moment for an upgrade comes and investing in a Laptop instead.

RobCrezz · Nov 27, 2013

Bear in mind that laptop versions of CPUs and GPUs are considerably less powerful than desktop counterparts, so you have to spend considerably more.

I dont think its a bad time to upgrade to be honest, there is always another generation around the corner no matter when you upgrade. Also, I think you are playing down the 4770k+z87, its very capable, and with a nice cooler and an overclock very very capable! Hyperthreading does help a lot in productivity, and the single thread performance (especially with an overclock) is pretty much the top of the line. Matched with a 780 for CUDA work and the performance over your current setup would be huge!

srdit · Nov 27, 2013

RobCrezz :

Thanks again for your reply!

Sure, I know that's the case with laptop versions of CPUs and GPUs. I myself hate having to use a laptop, but I often have to (when working with other students, or when having to finish something etc.) so since I probably will be dependent on the the laptop as well for quite some time, I thought of it as a way of postponing the desktop upgrade. I do need something to work on pretty soon since the HP Probook 6550b with its 2 GB RAM that I'm using currently (and also to write this) isn't quite coping anyway.

Still not sure what to do, but you've got me to look up benchmarks, etc. on the i7 4770k and the comparisons with the i7 4930k do seem interesting. From what I understand, the 4930k would in my case be an overprice of 200 EUR only to have approx. 20% more performance when rendering, and given that I definitely don't render all the time, the question regarding the overprice is legitimate. Which also clears out the option of an AM3+ CPU; 8 cores that don't work at full most of the time, and are on the other hand clearly surpassed by the i7 4770k in Photoshop, Revit, AutoCAD - that simply doesn't pay off. That makes the choice at least somewhat easier.

However, does the 4770k REALLY surpass the i7 4930k in ANY area, except perhaps gaming? Judging from the benchmarks, it seems that if it does, then only really marginally in some applications, and most games. I'm just wondering if there is any advantage over the 4930k except for being cheaper and using less energy. Not like I wouldn't mind, less energy consumption and paying less is certainly nice, it's just that, if the i7 4770k would perform better in Photoshop, InDesign, illustrator, Revit, AutoCAD, that would be a trade-off I could definitely live with, and my choice would clearly be the 4770k. But it seems that the 4930k is basically the single-threaded power of the 4770k plus advantage when using all cores (ie rendering) - how can that not be a winner? In other words, you'd only buy 4770k if you were purely gaming or simply a cheapskate.

Besides, there are no Z87 boards from Asus (and I'm quite keen on buying Asus this time) that would have all the card slots and ports that I currently use (PCI for the sound card, eSATA for the external HDD) which means that I might in fact pay more for a new PCIe sound card, coming slowly to the price of a X79 Sabertooth, for example.

RobCrezz · Nov 28, 2013

srdit :

RobCrezz :

Thanks again for your reply!

Sure, I know that's the case with laptop versions of CPUs and GPUs. I myself hate having to use a laptop, but I often have to (when working with other students, or when having to finish something etc.) so since I probably will be dependent on the the laptop as well for quite some time, I thought of it as a way of postponing the desktop upgrade. I do need something to work on pretty soon since the HP Probook 6550b with its 2 GB RAM that I'm using currently (and also to write this) isn't quite coping anyway.

Still not sure what to do, but you've got me to look up benchmarks, etc. on the i7 4770k and the comparisons with the i7 4930k do seem interesting. From what I understand, the 4930k would in my case be an overprice of 200 EUR only to have approx. 20% more performance when rendering, and given that I definitely don't render all the time, the question regarding the overprice is legitimate. Which also clears out the option of an AM3+ CPU; 8 cores that don't work at full most of the time, and are on the other hand clearly surpassed by the i7 4770k in Photoshop, Revit, AutoCAD - that simply doesn't pay off. That makes the choice at least somewhat easier.

However, does the 4770k REALLY surpass the i7 4930k in ANY area, except perhaps gaming? Judging from the benchmarks, it seems that if it does, then only really marginally in some applications, and most games. I'm just wondering if there is any advantage over the 4930k except for being cheaper and using less energy. Not like I wouldn't mind, less energy consumption and paying less is certainly nice, it's just that, if the i7 4770k would perform better in Photoshop, InDesign, illustrator, Revit, AutoCAD, that would be a trade-off I could definitely live with, and my choice would clearly be the 4770k. But it seems that the 4930k is basically the single-threaded power of the 4770k plus advantage when using all cores (ie rendering) - how can that not be a winner? In other words, you'd only buy 4770k if you were purely gaming or simply a cheapskate.

Besides, there are no Z87 boards from Asus (and I'm quite keen on buying Asus this time) that would have all the card slots and ports that I currently use (PCI for the sound card, eSATA for the external HDD) which means that I might in fact pay more for a new PCIe sound card, coming slowly to the price of a X79 Sabertooth, for example.

I think the only place the 4770k would surpass the 4930k is potentially single threaded performance, as it can potentially overclock higher, but mostly its much better value for money. ultimatly its still only a quad core though, vs the 6 cores of the 4930k.

Can you just put the HDD inside? There are plenty of Asus Z87 board with pci slots, if its only e-sata you are lacking. Otherwise you could put the HDD in a USB 3.0 caddy and use usb 3?

srdit · Nov 29, 2013

RobCrezz :

Hi,

the HDD will certainly stay outside, I use it as an external drive for storage and backup for both my desktop and laptop computers. But I suppose that both eSATA and PCI are eventually dying out and continuously constraining myself in the choice of hardware only because I am stuck with those two components is kind of a burden in the long run anyway, so I'll have to make some sacrifices I guess. So would it be possible to just put the existing HDD into a USB 3.0 case, even if it's an older HD? I guess I'll have to check that.

But anyway, I have to say you've actually pretty much convinced me; also, judging from other people's experiences, the i4770k might even slightly surpass the 4930k in single-threaded CAD applications, and the additional speed when rendering doesn't really justify itself financially, since I'm not going to be rendering all the time. The eventual better speed when modelling for example, i.e. orbiting the 3D model, might really come in handy much more than a faster render at this moment. So do you guys think that I could keep my case, cpu cooler and psu if I am going to switch to Z87 and i7 4770k? Ultimately, the i7 4770k isn't as power-demanding as the 1055t was, right? If that's possible, I think I'm pretty much going to purchase as early as today.

As for the motherboard, I've been considering either the:

ASUS Z87-Plus for ca. 140 EUR, it has a PCI slot, is SLI compatible (should I ever decide to buy another GPU) and there already is a C2-version, that removes certain problems with USB 3.0, or the:

ASUS Sabertooth Z87 for ca. 200 EUR : pretty much the same situation, but without the PCI and with eSATA.

RobCrezz · Nov 29, 2013

srdit :

Something like this would be fine for your external HDD, simply remove it from the current caddy and move to this (or similar):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004LO59MK/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0042JOQZK&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0Y05CKNC7SBA4S22C19F

Then you can use it via USB 3 or eSata.

Your case should be fine, but your cooler might be lacking the mounting options for Socket 1150. You psu might also be incompatible with the low power states of Haswell, you will have to check with the manufacturer.

Both nice boards, go with whichever connectivity options suit you best.

srdit · Nov 29, 2013

Would this work too?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FANTEC-1479-DB-ALU3e-schwarz/dp/B005JFKFTW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1385773723&sr=8-4&keywords=fantec+alu3+enclosure

The Straight Power E8 ist listed, so I suppose it should work with Haswell:
http://www.bequiet.com/en/press/2635

I guess I'm gonna go with the Z87-Plus and switch over to USB 3.0 for the external HD. Pretty much no chance that when I decide to buy a new laptop, it's going to even have eSATA, i.e. I don't want to make the decision for the laptop judging on whether it has eSATA or not.

I'm thinking of buying more RAM as well right away, should I just add 2 more 4 GB Kingston modules, same ones as the ones I already have, or should I switch completely to higher clocked RAM modules?

RobCrezz · Nov 30, 2013

Yeah that caddy looks fine. That's good the PSU is fine.

Yeah you may as well just add more 1333 ram as there isn't a huge performance gain by going with faster ram ( unless you are using integrated graphics). I over clocked my ram and I couldn't see any difference to be honest.

srdit · Dec 4, 2013

Seems that I actually had 4 x 2 GB ValueRAM inside, so no upgrade with the existing kit possible; I have to buy a completely new one, so I decided on this 16 GB kit from G-Skill:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GWMR6U/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B007GWMR6U&linkCode=as2&tag=pcfoo-20

I figured, when I am already buying completely new memory, I might go with a faster one, the difference in price being marginal.

I ordered the mainboard + CPU, spoke to the tech guy over there and he said the existing cpu-cooler shouldn't be a problem with the new cpu either. Can't wait to see it in action

Many thanks for your help, RobCrezz!

RobCrezz · Dec 4, 2013

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

srdit · Dec 6, 2013

Well, it's all here. Even the RAM has arrived quicker than I expected, so everything is set and running. It turned out that the old CPU-cooler indeed cannot fit the 1150 socket, so I had to exchange it for a Scythe Mugen 4. The good thing is that the fan itself is somewhat flexibly attached to the heatsink, so you can carefully lift it, otherwise the new RAM couldn't have fitted underneath. I have actually kept two of the old memory bars, so I now practically have 20 GB RAM - not sure if it makes better sense to sell the 4 x 2 GB kit while there could still be a market for it, and stay at 16 GB now, and if I reach a limit with it, buy another 16 GB kit.

First impresssions? The CPU is simply great. I have tried rendering a few older scenes in C4D and the time being saved is tremendous. Also it's overally very fast, the workflow is perceptibly faster than with the 1055T: Windows starts even faster, Programmes load even faster, AutoCAD manages to orbit huge files without amounting to 100% usage. I still don't think a 4930k would have been overkill for rendering, but I can definitely imagine this (4770k) to be a good investment for the next, say, two years at least.

The mainboard? Oh dear... I'm not sure that it was such a good idea to cheap out on the mainboard again. The SSD at first sometimes there, sometimes not, unable to boot from it a couple of times; resolved after installing all the mainboard drivers from the CD and I hope it stays that way. The noise - unbearable; I have no idea what makes it but it certainly isn't the new CPU-fan, and it is the only new thing inside my case (and I have to say that, as much as I loved the Alpenföhn Brocken, the Mugen is by no means worse, in fact, it probably is even better, and probably the most silent fan in my case). It certainly isn't the CPU-fan, and subjectively I'd say it is the PSU fan, which does indeed make me quite nervous. Every now and then the mainboard won't boot and gives "CPU Fan Error" - temperatures, however, seem to be quite normal. My SSD seems to work at least 5% slower than with a 3 years old AMD3 mainboard. I just hope I can somehow find out how to sort these things, otherwise this is a terrible waste of money, Asus or not.

Upgrade to i7 4930k or wait?

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