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PCI-E x16 25W limit, GPU needs max 30W - AMD R7 240 in dc7700 small factor, please help

Hello
I have HP dc7700 small factor computer
PSU model: DPS-240FB - 240W I found out it's Delta Inc product
V12 11.5A VCPU
V12 7.5A


E6600 processor [max 65W]
4 x 1 GB DDR2 RAM
1x HDD regular SATA
1x DVD-ROM
2x about 80mm FANs

I want to upgrade my GPU
I found interesting new card, perhaps it's not powerful, but not bad
it's AMD R7 240 - Max TDP 30W

So, probably PSU can handle it
but
on the producent site there is terrible information: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12543_ca/12543_ca.pdf
PAGE 11

Power for PCI-E x16 is limited to 25W

and I have 3 questions:
1. is it only kinda recommendation not to exceed 25W due to weak PSU

2. if it's limited , so in which way ? by software [bios] hardware?
any possibility to gget additional 5W

3. what will happen if I put 30W GPU into 25W PCI-E x16 slot ?

any ideas what to do?
only 5W to be happy ;)
50 answers Last reply Best Answer
More about pci x16 25w limit gpu max 30w amd 240 dc7700 small factor
  1. Best answer
    I think you will be fine. The PCI-E standard states that a graphics card should be able to pull 75W of power off of the mobo interface safely. The 25W limit is for any other type of expansion card...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
  2. Unfortunetely producent has limited this to 25W for PCI-E x16 too

    look at the documentation - table on page 11
    http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12543_ca/12543_ca.pdf

    there is awful limitation :(
    but I don't know what kind of the limit it is
  3. Did you read the my source? PCI-E is an industry standard. It will supply 75W through the PCI-E port to a graphics card. The 25W limit is for any other type of expansion card.

    It is written in the standard. I did read your source.
  4. if you read my source..... so I don't understand the data in the doc..strange.

    look carefuly SFF version of my comp can supply 25W for PCI-E x16
    CMT - 75W

    really I'm confused

    I'm waiting for the answers of the users who had similar problem....I mean: producent tells there is only 25W in the slot, but in the fact you can get more...??
  5. The document simply states the PCI-E STANDARD. The SAME STANDARD that says it should provide 75W to a GPU. What do you not get?

    The GPU will be fine (provided the PSU can provide enough power, the MOBO will carry the power.)
  6. As I wrote before I don't get .... why max power in SFF ver is 25W , but at the same time CMT 75W..in another words, If you are sure there is no limit, so why producent put this info [25W limit] ? joke ;) ?
  7. What I can understand it's only limit on paper ..only due to weak PSU - some kind of warning - not to exceed... but I'm not sure about that..so this is why I have doubt and try solve this problem on the forum
  8. THE STANDARD STATES 25W FOR EXPANSION CARDS- EXCEPT GRAPHICS CARDS!!!!!!! THE HP DOCUMENT SAYS THE SAME THING!!!!! OMG IT IS MEETING THE STANDARD!!!!! HOW CONFUSING"!"!""!"!"!
  9. Ok, thank You for information, However I don't see such exception statement in the document....Perhaps i'm blind :)
  10. Ok, I have installed this card Radeon R2 240 in pci-e x 16 slot

    but GPU-Z shows that the GPU works only at 8x
    Why ? What is the problem ?

    perhaps it's only x16 size, but there is only power and speed spec like in pci-e 8x
    25W max in HP doc still bother me

    any advice ?
  11. Oh, everything is OK..this card is PCI-E 8x not 16x ..16x was written everywhere, but when I looked very close to the spec, I have realised it's 8x...16x is only about the size of pci-e so it's PCI-e 16x @ 8x [if I can write in that way] Thank You for previous advice
  12. xdon82 said:
    Oh, everything is OK..this card is PCI-E 8x not 16x ..16x was written everywhere, but when I looked very close to the spec, I have realised it's 8x...16x is only about the size of pci-e so it's PCI-e 16x @ 8x [if I can write in that way] Thank You for previous advice


    Hi xdon82, I got your same PC (dc7700 SFF) , can you tell me how is this R7 240?
    Right now I've a Radeon HD 5450 which is very bad for gaming :(
  13. I have a XFX Radeon HD 6670 2GB DDR3 (63 Watts) on an HP 6005 SFF and works smoothly. Games with PES 2013 or 2033 METRO run well at a maximum resolution of 1366 x 768.
  14. Jaalsuor said:
    I have a XFX Radeon HD 6670 2GB DDR3 (63 Watts) on an HP 6005 SFF and works smoothly. Games with PES 2013 or 2033 METRO run well at a maximum resolution of 1366 x 768.


    Very good to know, I think am gonna take a Radeon HD 7750 instead of this bad r7 240
  15. Marco Giannetta said:
    xdon82 said:
    Oh, everything is OK..this card is PCI-E 8x not 16x ..16x was written everywhere, but when I looked very close to the spec, I have realised it's 8x...16x is only about the size of pci-e so it's PCI-e 16x @ 8x [if I can write in that way] Thank You for previous advice


    Hi xdon82, I got your same PC (dc7700 SFF) , can you tell me how is this R7 240?
    Right now I've a Radeon HD 5450 which is very bad for gaming :(


    Considering so weak PSU it works very good. Most games at ready HD or full HD resolution play with 75%-100% of full details at 25-30fps [and even more in many games]
  16. Jaalsuor said:
    I have a XFX Radeon HD 6670 2GB DDR3 (63 Watts) on an HP 6005 SFF and works smoothly. Games with PES 2013 or 2033 METRO run well at a maximum resolution of 1366 x 768.


    on R7 240 PES 2013 run smoothly at higher resolution
    By the way HD 6670 takes power twice than R7 240. In my case PSU is not overloaded at all
    Have you checked your voltage at V12 line when load ?
  17. Marco Giannetta said:
    Jaalsuor said:
    I have a XFX Radeon HD 6670 2GB DDR3 (63 Watts) on an HP 6005 SFF and works smoothly. Games with PES 2013 or 2033 METRO run well at a maximum resolution of 1366 x 768.


    Very good to know, I think am gonna take a Radeon HD 7750 instead of this bad r7 240


    You're gonna to go at total limits of your PSU - be careful
    HD 7750 takes much more power than R7 240
  18. xdon82 said:
    Marco Giannetta said:
    xdon82 said:
    Oh, everything is OK..this card is PCI-E 8x not 16x ..16x was written everywhere, but when I looked very close to the spec, I have realised it's 8x...16x is only about the size of pci-e so it's PCI-e 16x @ 8x [if I can write in that way] Thank You for previous advice


    Hi xdon82, I got your same PC (dc7700 SFF) , can you tell me how is this R7 240?
    Right now I've a Radeon HD 5450 which is very bad for gaming :(


    Considering so weak PSU it works very good. Most games at ready HD or full HD resolution play with 75%-100% of full details at 25-30fps [and even more in many games]


    xdon82 said:
    Marco Giannetta said:
    Jaalsuor said:
    I have a XFX Radeon HD 6670 2GB DDR3 (63 Watts) on an HP 6005 SFF and works smoothly. Games with PES 2013 or 2033 METRO run well at a maximum resolution of 1366 x 768.


    Very good to know, I think am gonna take a Radeon HD 7750 instead of this bad r7 240


    You're gonna to go at total limits of your PSU - be careful
    HD 7750 takes much more power than R7 240



    In terms of wattage, I read some reviews which state max power consumption (full system consumption) with HD 7750 rated at about 140 W on full load.
    HD 7750 has a max tdp of 50/55 W so I don't think it's so power demanding, but I know I should consider the amperage too
  19. Go for a HD 7750. Its way faster and I think your PSU can handle it.
  20. americanbrian said:
    The document simply states the PCI-E STANDARD. The SAME STANDARD that says it should provide 75W to a GPU. What do you not get?

    The GPU will be fine (provided the PSU can provide enough power, the MOBO will carry the power.)


    sorry for bumping an old thread but is it the same for a dell system ? the thing u mentioned that it should provide 75 w to a GPU ?
  21. Yes, it is a design standard for PC's. Please note that this does not mean the PSU has the oomph to provide the power. The motherboard SLOT can handle a 75W draw. If you have a very very low power PSU (150W? or so) then conceivably it may not provide the power needed, though this will depend on the other components in the system.
  22. americanbrian said:
    Yes, it is a design standard for PC's. Please note that this does not mean the PSU has the oomph to provide the power. The motherboard SLOT can handle a 75W draw. If you have a very very low power PSU (150W? or so) then conceivably it may not provide the power needed, though this will depend on the other components in the system.


    i have a dell optiplex 755 SFF core 2 duo E6550 with a PSU of 275 so its ok for me to use a card between 50-65 watts even though the pcie x16 slot has 25w written on the mother board ?

    this is my PSU http://imgur.com/tkZz8K6

    and the pciex16 slot on the board http://imgur.com/0BUTnaw
  23. I have run a 7770 on an optiplex with a 300w supply fine. I reckon you will be fine.
  24. americanbrian said:
    I have run a 7770 on an optiplex with a 300w supply fine. I reckon you will be fine.



    thanks buddy :) cant waitttt to get my hands on a good low profile card and start my gaming adventure !
  25. Brian, hopefully you are still listening to this necro.

    I've got a very similar problem, but in many ways very different. I actually do have a 25w PCIe port.

    I am trying to install a video card into a non-graphics port, any-other expansion limited 25w PCIe port. This is on a Dell PE 6850 Server.

    This slot, not being designed for graphics, does not support 75w. I have had luck putting a graphics card into a Dell PE 2850 servers, but the PE2850 lacks the 25w limit, it also lacks the micro-code necessary to install Windows 10, but that's a different problem.

    I do have unlimited power available by external plug, but the card itself needs to be willing to negotiate PCIe start-up on 25w. My HD 5670, 5770, 7950 all fail, though all work in the PE 2850.

    Are you aware of any cards that are willing to 'settle' for 25w at startup yet still provide some gaming oomfh when supplied with oceans of external power?

    I can't verify a PCIe 1x 25w card will work but I'll soon end up buying one just to see. That won't suit my need for speed, but it will prove a graphics card is supported in theory. I'd rather a better solution and hope you can help.

    Thanks
  26. I don't think that will work without some other way of powering the card. It may be possible by using a powered expansion riser however this can be difficult if you don't have a good mounting position. A lot of people that do/did cryptomining BTC etc. used powered PCI-E risers for installing extra GPUs.

    I would need to know what size of PCI-E slot you have. but an example of a 1X - 16X powered riser is here:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/SuperHash-Express-Powered-Bitcoin-Litecoin/dp/B00HLMZ87U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455808506&sr=8-2&keywords=x1+pci-e+16x+riser
  27. My research is suggesting a powered riser card too. I've ordered a powered 16x to 16x cable and a powered 1x to 16x to hedge my bets. I'll find somewhere to mount it, a Dell PE 6850 is nothing if not spacious and I'm not afraid to do modifications as needed.

    The Dell uses all PCIe 8x 25w slots. The first operates at 8x, the others all operate at 4x. The backs have been melted off (blowtorch and hot screwdriver has worked well for me) to allow 16x cards to slot properly. All this has been validated with my Dell PE 2850, but that system uses a 75w PCIe.

    Hopefully those 49ers (miners) knew what they were doing. I'll check back next week to let you know if it worked.
  28. Cool, good luck.
  29. Thank you for all anwsers above. I just upgraded my HP 6005 Pro SFF with an Geforce 750 Ti and it works perfectly :)
    (model GV-N75TOC-2GL)
    Note that I did have to change a bios setting, the PCI-e x16 slot was in x8+displayport mode, the PC did not boot past the initial bios message, nor could I acces the bios setup screen. In x16 mode everything was OK.

    The HP documentation does say that the PCI-e x16 slot is limited to 25W. However, the same motherboard (type: 531966-001) and bios is used in the non-SFF chassis, and there the slot is limited to 75W (as it should). So I have to agree to americanbrian that this is only an PCI spec half height card issue, not a limitation of the SFF PC. :)

    The power supply is 240W. The system uses under full processor load WITHOUT the nvidia card (prime number stress test) 136W.
    This means that I have about 100W spare for my graphics card. I assume the card is max. 75W as this is the PCIe maximum for graphic cards without an extra power connection.

    Further. on this power supply is a sticker which says:
    12V generic rail: 14A max.
    12V cpu rail: 12A max.
    Total load of all rails may not exceed 240W.

    This means that power supply has a seperate rail for the CPU, so most of the 12V generic rail is available for my new graphics card. as this is max. 75W (75W / 12V = 6.25A, not even close to 14A) this power supply should handle this new graphics card easily.

    Playing a game (Metro 2033) the pc usage is about 150W. Despite that the graphics card does say it needs a 400W power supply, my 240W is more than enough.

    Please note that this does not say that any power supply does work, the 12V rail must have enough power to power both the CPU and the graphics card. Cheap power supplies may have enough power on the 5V/3.3V rail, but lack the power on the 12V rail.

    I hope my 2c can help anybody out there!
  30. Good job mate. Enjoy your setup's new lease of life.
  31. Dear Noormanman,

    I am about to upgrade my HP 6005 exactly the same way.
    At the moment, I am using an Nvidia Geforce GT 220 Lowprofile with great success, but I am planning to run other resource hungry games.
    What do you think?
    Is your PSU still bears the huge load?
    I think I have the same (factory 240W) PSU in my system, and my CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 B28 3.4GHz, 4 GB 1033 DDR3

    My question is how to 'overwrite' the BIOS settings as I cannot find that pressing the F10 button.

    Thank you for your help in advance!
  32. Dear Noormanman,

    I am about to upgrade my HP 6005 exactly the same way.
    At the moment, I am using an Nvidia Geforce GT 220 Lowprofile with great success, but I am planning to run other resource hungry games.
    What do you think?
    Is your PSU still bears the huge load?
    I think I have the same (factory 240W) PSU in my system, and my CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 B28 3.4GHz, 4 GB 1033 DDR3

    My question is how to 'overwrite' the BIOS settings as I cannot find that pressing the F10 button.

    Thank you for your help in advance!
  33. Dear Noormanman,

    I am about to upgrade my HP 6005 exactly the same way.
    At the moment, I am using an Nvidia Geforce GT 220 Lowprofile with great success, but I am planning to run other resource hungry games.
    What do you think?
    Is your PSU still bears the huge load?
    I think I have the same (factory 240W) PSU in my system, and my CPU is an AMD Athlon II X2 B28 3.4GHz, 4 GB 1033 DDR3

    My question is how to 'overwrite' the BIOS settings as I cannot find that pressing the F10 button.

    Thank you for your help in advance!


    noormanman said:
    Thank you for all anwsers above. I just upgraded my HP 6005 Pro SFF with an Geforce 750 Ti and it works perfectly :)
    (model GV-N75TOC-2GL)
    Note that I did have to change a bios setting, the PCI-e x16 slot was in x8+displayport mode, the PC did not boot past the initial bios message, nor could I acces the bios setup screen. In x16 mode everything was OK.

    The HP documentation does say that the PCI-e x16 slot is limited to 25W. However, the same motherboard (type: 531966-001) and bios is used in the non-SFF chassis, and there the slot is limited to 75W (as it should). So I have to agree to americanbrian that this is only an PCI spec half height card issue, not a limitation of the SFF PC. :)

    The power supply is 240W. The system uses under full processor load WITHOUT the nvidia card (prime number stress test) 136W.
    This means that I have about 100W spare for my graphics card. I assume the card is max. 75W as this is the PCIe maximum for graphic cards without an extra power connection.

    Further. on this power supply is a sticker which says:
    12V generic rail: 14A max.
    12V cpu rail: 12A max.
    Total load of all rails may not exceed 240W.

    This means that power supply has a seperate rail for the CPU, so most of the 12V generic rail is available for my new graphics card. as this is max. 75W (75W / 12V = 6.25A, not even close to 14A) this power supply should handle this new graphics card easily.

    Playing a game (Metro 2033) the pc usage is about 150W. Despite that the graphics card does say it needs a 400W power supply, my 240W is more than enough.

    Please note that this does not say that any power supply does work, the 12V rail must have enough power to power both the CPU and the graphics card. Cheap power supplies may have enough power on the 5V/3.3V rail, but lack the power on the 12V rail.

    I hope my 2c can help anybody out there!
  34. Nameske, my PC works perfect. There is a HP problem that the PC cannot recover from a sleep state, but I disabled power saving in windows 10 to 'solve' that. As for the PCI bios setting, this option does not show in my bios anymore. It is probably hidden as the x16 card is already in my system and claimed the x16 bus. As your GT220 is also working, you are good.
    The 'resource hungry' games I played are XCOM enemy unknown, Metro 2013 and heroes of might and magic III HD edition.
  35. Thank you for your reply, noormanman.
    In your 6005, what kind of AMD CPU do you use?
    Do you recommend to upgrade the CPU or RAM to a better one?
    Thank you for your help
  36. This is THE perfect thread for me. I asked a similar question today in a thread. I have the HP6300 Pro, with i5-2500. It said 25W for the PCI. But with this thread, I think it means a low profile GTX 750 ti would actually work?
  37. Nameske, I have the Phenom II X4 B97 3.2GHz processor and 4GB ram. You will have to make a choice:
    1) expand your exististing system. The GTX750 will definitly boost your game performance and you can play modern games. Cost: ~130 euro. A new processor or more ram will not make much difference I think, as most work is done by the video card. Mind that a fast 2-core processor might be better than a slow 4-core processor, depending which game you play. If you can get a fast processor cheap, why not. If you have memory slots free and can get memory cheap, why not. (make sure the memory you buy is supported by the system). But overall I do not think it will make games run much faster.
    2) buy a second hand minitower with a decent processor, a good power supply, and windows 7 or higher (so you can upgrade to windows 10). Cost a bit more, but then you can fit an even more powerfull video card.
    Having said this, I am happy with my HP 6005 + GTX750Ti
  38. Thank you for your help again.
    Exactly the same processor you have that I am thinking of, the Phenom X4 Phenom B97 3.2GHz.
    The difference per core isn't that significant (my X2 B28's clock speed is 3.4GHz on paper)
    I can also acquire a cheap set of 4*4GB DDR3 1600MHZ rams.
    Now, it is gone but sooner or later a second hand low-profile Gigabyte 750ti will appear on my domestic market again.
    My last question is about the DIMM sockets.
    What do you think, a pair of 8 GB RAM or a quad of RAM (4*4GB) would be better to use in the motherboard? Does the motherboard uses the DIMMs in dual-channel mode in both cases or only if I would fit 2 slots instead of 4?
    Maxing out this 6005's maybe not the best idea, won't be a high-end pc anyway but this option is more cost-saving for me at the moment than to upgrade to a completely new rig.
    Thank you for your answer in advance!
  39. Nemeske said:

    My last question is about the DIMM sockets.
    What do you think, a pair of 8 GB RAM or a quad of RAM (4*4GB) would be better to use in the motherboard? Does the motherboard uses the DIMMs in dual-channel mode in both cases or only if I would fit 2 slots instead of 4?

    The HP 6005 Pro does not support 8GB ram modules, and probably does not support an 8 chip 4GB ram module.
    Make sure you get a 16 chip 4GB module (or an 8 chip 2GB module). My intel system of the same generation refused an 8 chip 4GB module as it did not support that modern ram chip. See also http://www2.corsair.com/retailer/system_results.aspx?rid=13251&id=839072 for supported modules. Max memory = 4x 4GB for this PC.
    Dual channel works when you get a pair of the same modules, and still works if you install a second pair of the same modules. First pair does not need to be the same as the second pair as far as I know.
  40. Very useful information. Thank you for your help, you have just saved me from some torture.
    What do you think, is this one is a ,,8 chip" module or a ,,16 chip" one?

    http://hardverapro.hu/apro/khx1600c9d3k416gx_kigston_hyper_x/


    (4 x 4 GB KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX KINGSTON HYPER X CL 9)

    Thank you for your useful helps so far
  41. Found this one also, but these are surely 8 chip modules. Physically, it will fit marginally under the optical drive compartment, as there is a very little space between the compartment and the DIMM socket.

    http://hardverapro.hu/apro/16_gb_4x4_gb_fekete_kingston_hyperx_fury_ddr3_quad_kit_2020-i
  42. bump but i bought 2 dell 755 dts can i use a pci riser with molex to provide more power or not?
  43. apple tech geek said:
    bump but i bought 2 dell 755 dts can i use a pci riser with molex to provide more power or not?


    Not. The motherboard can supply the needed 75W, and if you would use a more power hungry graphics card then this card will have it's own molex power connectors. You do not need a PCI riser.
    As the power supply of the dell 755 is limited (280W), stay away of graphic cards with their own molex connectors unless you upgrade the power supply.

    Btw. Do not use two power supplies in one computer system, it will probably get instable if you do not know what you are doing.
  44. americanbrian said:
    I think you will be fine. The PCI-E standard states that a graphics card should be able to pull 75W of power off of the mobo interface safely. The 25W limit is for any other type of expansion card...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express


    Sorry for the necro, but I too have this exact same problem on this exact same machine.

    The PCI Express standard seems to state that FULL HEIGHT graphics cards can use up to 75W but the HALF HEIGHT ones are limited to 25W no matter what. I would like to use a GTX 750 Ti with a maximum power draw of 60W but it's a low profile card and I've read that low profile means the same as half height.

    What do you think? Is it true that half height GPU-s CAN'T get 75W after all?

    Also, even if the standard did state that any GPU can use 75W, could it be possible that since this is an HP proprietary motherboard, they are not following the standard properly or otherwise have hard-limited the x16 slot to 25W due to the cheap construction not being able to handle more than that?

    I don't want to fry the motherboard.
  45. noormanman said:
    Thank you for all anwsers above. I just upgraded my HP 6005 Pro SFF with an Geforce 750 Ti and it works perfectly :)
    (model GV-N75TOC-2GL)
    Note that I did have to change a bios setting, the PCI-e x16 slot was in x8+displayport mode, the PC did not boot past the initial bios message, nor could I acces the bios setup screen. In x16 mode everything was OK.

    The HP documentation does say that the PCI-e x16 slot is limited to 25W. However, the same motherboard (type: 531966-001) and bios is used in the non-SFF chassis, and there the slot is limited to 75W (as it should). So I have to agree to americanbrian that this is only an PCI spec half height card issue, not a limitation of the SFF PC. :)

    The power supply is 240W. The system uses under full processor load WITHOUT the nvidia card (prime number stress test) 136W.
    This means that I have about 100W spare for my graphics card. I assume the card is max. 75W as this is the PCIe maximum for graphic cards without an extra power connection.

    Further. on this power supply is a sticker which says:
    12V generic rail: 14A max.
    12V cpu rail: 12A max.
    Total load of all rails may not exceed 240W.

    This means that power supply has a seperate rail for the CPU, so most of the 12V generic rail is available for my new graphics card. as this is max. 75W (75W / 12V = 6.25A, not even close to 14A) this power supply should handle this new graphics card easily.

    Playing a game (Metro 2033) the pc usage is about 150W. Despite that the graphics card does say it needs a 400W power supply, my 240W is more than enough.

    Please note that this does not say that any power supply does work, the 12V rail must have enough power to power both the CPU and the graphics card. Cheap power supplies may have enough power on the 5V/3.3V rail, but lack the power on the 12V rail.

    I hope my 2c can help anybody out there!


    thanks for this. It is very confusing when the motherboard (on the express x16 slot) says 25w max and I hear 75w elsewhere. I assumed that the wattage went up with the version with 1.0 being limited to 25 and 2+ at 75w.

    so assuming that I have a low profile case and a 280 w power supply. What is the current best graphics card to use with or without an external power connector?
  46. the newly launched zotac nvdia gt 1030 2gb ddr 5 (30watt)will it be able to run on my hp 6200prosff pc which is small form factor and power supply smps is 240 watts ?
  47. Pls ans people and tec genius
  48. Rohit_97 said:
    the newly launched zotac nvdia gt 1030 2gb ddr 5 (30watt)will it be able to run on my hp 6200prosff pc which is small form factor and power supply smps is 240 watts ?


    probably since we don't know what the current draw is on the power supply. 30 watts is well within the 75 watt limit for PCL express connector.
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