$250 CPU and MOBO

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

I plan on purchasing this Friday(black Friday).

Gaming Build

Austin,TX

Overclocking:Maybe

SLI/Crossfire:NO

Tower is a...

I'm trying to upgrade these two components to get away from my APU build. Would like to beef things up for some better performance in games (BF4, ESO, BFront3). Although i do not currently own a top end graphics card, this is a progressive build. I do however own an ok graphics card that fits PCI express that will carry me over till i upgrade my power supply to handle a stronger graphics card. I've heard that newer games will now support more than 4 cores, up to 8. Would something like this be of use for gaming? As far as the MOBO goes, i cant see any reason why i would need more than 16gb of ram or multiple PCI-E slots. I suppose the main limiting factor would be if the MOBO has the space for a larger graphics card.

CTurbo · Nov 26, 2013

FX 6300 or FX 8320 and a Am3+ 990FX motherboard

8GB of RAM is fine.

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

CTurbo :

Sorry, sometimes I'm not very specific. CPU+MOBO=$250

AK139 · Nov 26, 2013

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($139.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock 990FX Extreme3 ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $249.98

Razor88 · Nov 26, 2013

Slightly over budget :

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/lgWf
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/lgWf/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/lgWf/benchmarks/

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($139.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus M5A99X EVO R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($114.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $254.97
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-26 04:23 EST-0500)

I suggest you buy an aftermarket cooler if you want to overclock though.

Razor88 · Nov 26, 2013

. Double post

DeathAndPain · Nov 26, 2013

■Do not buy an AMD CPU. AMD has been outclassed by Intel hands down in the past few years. A quad-core Intel Core i5-4xxx will outcompute any 6-core AMD hands down (and you will be able to use the performance even in games that do not support more than four cores)

■People usually believe that they need far stronger PSUs than they really do. You can run a gaming system on a 350 Watts PSU! It certainly depends on the graphics card that you are using, so what is your current PSU (brand and power), and what is the graphics card you are looking at? If I were you, I would first try to run your new graphics card with your old PSU (provided your old PSU has the corresponding PCI-E power connectors) and replace the PSU only when it actually fails.

16 Gigabytes of RAM is ample. You will not need more during the next years. In fact, 8GB would do just as nicely. I have also installed 16 GB, but only because I could get them at a cheap price. RAM prices have skyrocketed since then and are now almost twice as high as they used to be. You may still decide to get 16 GB, but anything more than that does not make sense (Win7 Premium x64 does not even support more than 16GB). Make sure to get a kit of two identical 8GB modules so you can dual-channel them.

■You should be having multiple PCI-E slots on your MOBO because these are IMHO the only reasonable way of installing expansions. I agree that SLI/CrossFire is nonsense, but perhaps you want to install a decent sound card. Or maybe you will unexpectedly move in 3 years, and in your new appartment your computer will be far from the internet plug, so you want to install a WLAN card. Or the network chip on your MOBO fails, so rather than discarding the whole MOBO, you want to install a cheap LAN card.

And what is the alternative? Ancient PCI sockets, a technology that was introduced more than a decade ago along with the first Pentiums? I would rather endeavor not to have this legacy crap on my new MOBO.

What you also need to consider is which chipset you want on your new mainboard. Provided you go Intel (which I strongly recommend, read CPU performance charts here on Tomshardware if you have doubts!), you can choose between a variety of chipsets. Only Z87 will allow overclocking, but Z87 MOBOs are considerably more expensive, so you pay more for the ability to overclock, which defeats the idea behind overclocking (getting more performance for free). Also, the overclockable variants of Intel CPUs lack other features that their regular brethren have. In fact, a cheap B85 chipset will do nicely and not limit the overall performance of your system in the slightest. It will, however, consume less power, which does not only mean a smaller electricity bill, but also less heat in your computer case and less inevitable racket from the fans.

Oh, and generally, when asking for advice, please make it a habit to provide precise data. So you have "an ok graphics card". What is an "ok graphics card"? Please provide exact information on any hardware you already own or plan on obtaining.

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

Razor88 :

im still a little new to the PC building scene, what sets that MOBO form a MSI
760GM-P21 (FX)? as far as i can tell this fits my needs. max 16gb of ram(all i require), single PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot(i will not be using more than one graphics card), i dont think i will need more than 4 SATA .

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

DeathAndPain :

■Do not buy an AMD CPU. AMD has been outclassed by Intel hands down in the past few years. A quad-core Intel Core i5-4xxx will outcompute any 6-core AMD hands down (and you will be able to use the performance even in games that do not support more than four cores)

■People usually believe that they need far stronger PSUs than they really do. You can run a gaming system on a 350 Watts PSU! It certainly depends on the graphics card that you are using, so what is your current PSU (brand and power), and what is the graphics card you are looking at? If I were you, I would first try to run your new graphics card with your old PSU (provided your old PSU has the corresponding PCI-E power connectors) and replace the PSU only when it actually fails.

16 Gigabytes of RAM is ample. You will not need more during the next years. In fact, 8GB would do just as nicely. I have also installed 16 GB, but only because I could get them at a cheap price. RAM prices have skyrocketed since then and are now almost twice as high as they used to be. You may still decide to get 16 GB, but anything more than that does not make sense (Win7 Premium x64 does not even support more than 16GB). Make sure to get a kit of two identical 8GB modules so you can dual-channel them.

■You should be having multiple PCI-E slots on your MOBO because these are IMHO the only reasonable way of installing expansions. I agree that SLI/CrossFire is nonsense, but perhaps you want to install a decent sound card. Or maybe you will unexpectedly move in 3 years, and in your new appartment your computer will be far from the internet plug, so you want to install a WLAN card. Or the network chip on your MOBO fails, so rather than discarding the whole MOBO, you want to install a cheap LAN card.

And what is the alternative? Ancient PCI sockets, a technology that was introduced more than a decade ago along with the first Pentiums? I would rather endeavor not to have this legacy crap on my new MOBO.

What you also need to consider is which chipset you want on your new mainboard. Provided you go Intel (which I strongly recommend, read CPU performance charts here on Tomshardware if you have doubts!), you can choose between a variety of chipsets. Only Z87 will allow overclocking, but Z87 MOBOs are considerably more expensive, so you pay more for the ability to overclock, which defeats the idea behind overclocking (getting more performance for free). Also, the overclockable variants of Intel CPUs lack other features that their regular brethren have. In fact, a cheap B85 chipset will do nicely and not limit the overall performance of your system in the slightest. It will, however, consume less power, which does not only mean a smaller electricity bill, but also less heat in your computer case and less inevitable racket from the fans.

Oh, and generally, when asking for advice, please make it a habit to provide precise data. So you have "an ok graphics card". What is an "ok graphics card"? Please provide exact information on any hardware you already own or plan on obtaining.

XFX HD-677X-ZNFC

if you could take a gander at my reply to Razor88 and help me grasp a better understanding

DeathAndPain · Nov 26, 2013

■ Your link is dead (may work on your computer because you have the corresponding cookies set, but it does not work for anyone else as a matter of fact.)
■ Do not go for an AMD processor. Reasons see my previous post.
■ I tried to extract the link that you meant to give out of the dead link and ended up on a Pricepicker page for that mainboard. However, this page pretty much says nothing. It does not even display the # of PCIe slots. Again, PCIe slots are not only for graphics cards, and it is always good to have several of them. It is also good not to have ancient PCI slots unless you have an old PCI card that you want to keep using. Go for the homepage of the manufacturers to see detailed information on the various motherboards. I would start with Asrock, MSI being my second choice. Im not a fan of the other manufacturers, but that is a matter of personal preference. You may also be satisfied with ASUS or Gigabyte.

DeathAndPain · Nov 26, 2013

WhereisPerry :

I agree that this card is still pretty nice. Its chip has a maximum power consumption of 66 Watts. Even if you get a new card that consumes like 80 Watts that should not justify a new PSU. I agree that there are high-end graphics cards out there that consume several hundred watts, but these are infinitely expensive, infinitely noisy and run infinitely hot. I do not have the impression that you plan on going for one of those, so your old PSU (which you haven't specified yet) will most likely still do nicely. (A high-end graphics card and a crappy AMD CPU would be a silly combination anyway.)

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

DeathAndPain :

ive read many times that the intel builds tend to be more powerful, but even as todays games go? will having more cores not balance things out for amd? Also, AMD tends to be a little more cost effective it seems.

CTurbo · Nov 26, 2013

There's no doubt that Intel builds are more powerful. AMD makes a living on people that can't afford Intel builds. The FX 83xx series processors are great for the money and make an alright i5 replacement 95% of the time for budget users. AMD needs 8 cores to try to compete with the quad core i5s. That should say something about how powerful each core is.

So, Intel builds are more powerful. Period. But AMD builds can get the job done too, and usually for cheaper.

DeathAndPain · Nov 26, 2013

AMD builds cannot get the job done, because if you want a slow machine, you can as well keep the one you already own. Hardly any game supports more than 4 cores even today, especially not 8 of them, and even 8 core AMD CPUs are no match for the Intel 4-cores. In addition, AMD CPUs are a horror when it comes to cooling, because they consume so much power and turn it into heat. Your electricity bill will retaliate as well, and you need noisier fans or a more expensive water-cooling solution.

I wanted to point you towards those great CPU comparison charts that Tomshardware used to have, but I find that they no longer exist. Instead, Tomshardware now only offers textual descriptions with a lot of blabla. You can still get a glimpse of the truth of you look here. Scroll down to the bottom of the page. There you find the AMD FX-6300 declared as the best "Mid range gaming CPU". Sounds nice at first. However, if you read the corresponding text, there is mention of said FX-6300 being not far behind the Intel Core i3-4130.

Now you need to know that Intel is offering three lines of CPUs: the high-end Core i7, the mid-range Core i5 and the budget Core i3. So the "recommendable mid range gaming processor" from AMD is only slightly behind (!) the low-end budget model from Intel. Perhaps that tells you something?

Unfortunately, it seems that reports about CPUs on the internet are somewhat distorted lately. Perhaps this is to make their individual articles look more balanced and interesting, when in truth the CPU landscape is nowhere near being balanced. Unfortunately this also seems to go for Tomshardware. They are trying to squeeze in AMD CPUs where they can and discuss the alternatives as if there were any.

True is that the graphics components of AMD CPUs are often better than its Intel counterparts, because AMD has bought ATI a couple years ago and therefore has great knowledge on GPU manufacturing (although Intel is catching up there, too). But built-in CPU graphics is crappy anyway, which is why you are right to run a separate graphics card. However, once you employ a graphics card, any GPU-related merits of the CPU are void, as the built-in GPU of the CPU will be disabled. Along with that, anything that goes for AMD is disabled as well.

Trust me, going for AMD when making a gaming machine is a waste of money.

As for a mainboard recommendation tailored to your needs, what about this one: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/B85M-HDS/

A cheap mainboard that offers everything you need.

Razor88 · Nov 26, 2013

WhereisPerry :

Simply put that motherboard does not support a FX-8320 (See the CPU support list : http://za.msi.com/product/mb/760GM-P21--FX-.html#/?div=CPUSupport )

You can go cheaper on the motherboard (Like an Asus M5A97 R2.0) But it will hurt your ability to overclock.

I do think AMD is a pretty viable option, especially on a budget. I'm pretty sure you would be hard pressed to find a better CPU + mobo combo on the Intel side. ( At the same price point)

EDIT: I own an FX-8320 and I have been more than happy with it. Runs all my games(including Crysis 3) smoothly, and I have never seen temps above 51C (Which was on one rare occasion). I do however have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Cooler.

CTurbo · Nov 26, 2013

AMD builds cannot get the job done,...

This advice is "garbage" and this "rumor" needs to be stopped right now.

There is NO question that Intel is superior to AMD, but just because AMD is not as good, does NOT mean that AMD cannot get the job done. This is silly.
I know SO many AMD users that GET THE JOB DONE everyday! I can name 5 or 6 setups right now that I have seen/tweaked/upgraded/built that get well over 60+ fps on high or ultra settings on 1080p with AMD processors. How is that not getting the job done?

DeathAndPain · Nov 26, 2013

Excellent info without even specifying which application and under which settings they are getting those fps. Also, frames per second are truly an excellent measure for CPU performance and have nothing to do with the graphics card fer sure… You are nicely highlighting your expertise.

CTurbo · Nov 26, 2013

You still need processing power to push med-high end video cards. Just because AMD is not the best option, doesn't mean it doesn't get the job done.

This is the only argument here. You say AMD doesn't get the job done at all.. I say it does.

Memnarchon · Nov 26, 2013

Hello.
An Intel Haswell i5 alternative:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($163.94 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H87 Performance ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $253.93
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-26 06:25 EST-0500)

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

DeathAndPain :

so, would you perhaps recommend this?
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/28RoU
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/28RoU/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/28RoU/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($163.94 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Pro3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 6770 1GB Video Card ($100.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Thermaltake TR2 600W ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ Microcenter)
Total: $394.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-26 06:30 EST-0500) ?

(thats my current PSU) subtracting the card and PSU i'm only slightly over my preferred budget

CTurbo · Nov 26, 2013

I would not recommend that video card. You can get a HD 7850 or GTX 650ti boost for around that price and they're a lot better.
The Z87 motherboard would work of course, but you don't need a Z series motherboard for a non-k model i5. A B or H series motherboard would do just fine.

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

CTurbo :

thats my current card. so a z87 boards are not really worth the extra price w.o the proper chip i presume? do the K models have more room for OCing?

CTurbo · Nov 26, 2013

The K models ARE the overclocking chips. The i5-4440 cannot be overclocked at all. The Z series motherboards are for overclocking. They have some other feautres too, but overclocking is their forte.

DeathAndPain · Nov 26, 2013

WhereisPerry :

And you should be able to get into the boundaries of your budget by replacing the expensive Z87 mainboard by the one I suggested. Based on the profile you gave I guarantee that you will never feel the slightest difference. After all the information you gave upon your needs, the Z87 gives you absolutely nothing in addition that you would ever need or feel. It is just a waste of money. Go B85 and get the same for less money (and as a side effect, the B85 also consumes less power and generates less heat).

So that Thermaltake 600W is the PSU that you currently own? Whoa, way oversized.

You will never need another, not until new connector types come out. I guarantee that you could run your new system on a 400 watts PSU, most likely even a 350 watts one! Forget about replacing your PSU, no matter which graphics card you go for.

CTurbo :

Yes. How much, depends on the game/application, i.e. it can be very little.

CTurbo :

Yes. If you are willing to settle for poor performance when you could be getting much better, and if you are only running games that simply do not need more processing power, then you will be fine with AMD.

In fact, a 486 processor gets the job done if the job is running games from 1990.

However, if you sum up the total cost of a gaming PC (case, HDD, memory, mainboard, CPU, graphics card, monitor, mouse, Windows, …), then the question is how much sense it makes to save €/$50 on the CPU with huge impact on performance. I do not see any sense in cutting costs where it hurts most.

Memnarchon :

The CPU is fine, even though it might be worth a thought to spend a few additional bucks on a faster-clocked Core i5. The mainboard, however, is more expensive than the Asrock B85M-HDS without offering any additional features that the thread creator is likely ever to use.

WhereisPerry · Nov 26, 2013

Memnarchon :

pros and cons of this build? i wouldnt mind being able to OC down the line as my build becomes slightly dated. although that is not a necessity. obviously as i have been informed the intel build is the stronger option.

$250 CPU and MOBO

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