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Help with Gaming rig - Opinions and discussion are welcome

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November 30, 2013 11:31:26 PM

What do you think guys ?
This sytem will be used mostly for games (battlefield 4,watch dogs and anything new released) Light photoshop work, and a lot of browsing,youtube and 1080p Movies
I want to build a Pc that it willl last for at least 5 years.
Overclock is not my priority for this build but i will try it eventually. My target would be 4.2ghz and thats it.
The only part that makes my head heart is the damn Ram. I probalbly would need Low profile ram because of the cpu cooler (i dont want watercool to avoid that).

My budget is 800-900 pounds (uk)

GPU: I have a gtx570 that will last me for 2-3 more months. Ill get a new one in the summer when MAxell from nvidia will released

Windows 8.1 pro 64bit

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/miltos2304/saved/30qV


CPU Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor £246.99 @ Amazon UK
CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler £23.99 @ Amazon UK
Motherboard Asus Z87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard £143.98 @ Aria PC
Memory Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory £139.95 @ Amazon UK
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk £118.00 @ Amazon UK
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive £46.84 @ Amazon UK
Case Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case £76.99 @ Amazon UK
Power Supply SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply £85.42 @ Amazon UK
Optical Drive Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer £12.50 @ Ebuyer
Total
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available. £894.66
December 1, 2013 12:04:28 AM

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£168.94 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£108.03 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£63.53 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£65.49 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£46.84 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card (£227.46 @ Dabs)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£76.99 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£48.99 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£12.50 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £842.76
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-01 08:03 GMT+0000)

i5 and 8gb of ram is plenty for games. You will get no performance increase with an i7 and 16gb of ram.
Cheaper board, has everything you need.
Cheaper psu, just as good quality.
Downgraded the SSD to 120gb. 120gb should be plenty for os and a handful of games.
Added in a GPU. No point in waiting, your budget is big enough to max out any game at 1080p, so you should utilize that.
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December 1, 2013 12:13:27 AM

Thanks for replying.
The exact same list i had before i upgrade cpu.mobo and ram in my list :) 
I have arround 150-200 pounds more to spare on the list you suggested :) 
Drop the video card for now, i dont need one since i have gtx 570 and its really good in all games.....except bf4.

Whats your opinion on this ram to overclock i5-4670k or 4770k. http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cml16gx3...
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December 1, 2013 12:17:06 AM

Yeah your gonna be golden for 5 years I think. I am on First Gen i7, and near the end of life for mine but did the last big upgrades to stretch the lifespan as far as I can. Here is a comparison to my current system to give you an idea, but year you seem fine IMHO.

FYI If your trying to 'move' a Windows OS from a Off the Shelf computer (Dell, etc.) to your custom build FORGET IT. The OS is tied to the hardware, and can't be 'moved'. You would have to buy a new copy of the OS outright as well.

Alienware M17xR2 Laptop - 2010
Operating System
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit SP1
CPU
Intel Core i7 740QM @ 1.73GHz 62 °C
Clarksfield 45nm Technology
RAM
16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 665MHz (8-8-8-23)
Motherboard
Alienware
Graphics
Generic PnP Monitor (1920x1080@100Hz)
Acer GD235HZ (1920x1080@100Hz) - External
1535MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M (Dell) 61 °C
Storage
232GB Samsung SSD 840 Series (SSD) 44 °C
931GB Seagate ST1000LM014-1EJ164 (SATA) 38 °C
465GB Seagate ST950042 0AS USB Device (USB (SATA)) 36 °C
931GB Western Digital WD Elements 1042 USB Device (USB (SATA)) 35 °C
Optical Drives
HL-DT-ST DVDRWBD CA30N
Audio
High Definition Audio Device
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December 1, 2013 12:20:44 AM

Well if you really feel like you don't need a new gpu, then you can just drop it.
Also, as I stated, in games there is no need for an i7 nor 16gb of ram.
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December 1, 2013 12:25:08 AM

realchaos said:
Well if you really feel like you don't need a new gpu, then you can just drop it.
Also, as I stated, in games there is no need for an i7 nor 16gb of ram.


To be honest i watch a lot of videos on youtube that i5 bottleneck in games like bf4. And they are saying that watchdog will also benefit from more cores. In the long run i7 would not be better? As i stated i want this rig to last. I dont mind spend another 150-200 pounds now.

Also about he 16gb ram. My though on this is that 8 gb might be enough now. But for 50 pound more i get 16gb now i will not have to worry later that i might need more ram. I would be covered for then next 5-6 years.

If you think my logic on the above is wrong please give me a piece of your mind :) 

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December 1, 2013 12:34:04 AM

realchaos said:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£168.94 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£108.03 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£63.53 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£65.49 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£46.84 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card (£227.46 @ Dabs)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£76.99 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£48.99 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£12.50 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £842.76
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-01 08:03 GMT+0000)

i5 and 8gb of ram is plenty for games. You will get no performance increase with an i7 and 16gb of ram.
Cheaper board, has everything you need.
Cheaper psu, just as good quality.
Downgraded the SSD to 120gb. 120gb should be plenty for os and a handful of games.
Added in a GPU. No point in waiting, your budget is big enough to max out any game at 1080p, so you should utilize that.


I would contend a different response here. While not 'necessary' you will actually get a 'increase' by a i7 over a i5 with HIGHend video cards like the R9s, because the i5 will bottleneck the performance, for example in BF4. Don't take just my word for it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cj8RP4kEGo @ 2:50 will demonstrate the differences between i5 and i7.

As for not going 16GB, I don't think that is forward smart (OP stated they wanted a 5 year lasting gaming system), and I regularly use jut 4Gb running my OS, Antivirus, Im client, streaming music, etc. all just to surf webpages or work on a Word Doc. Add in BF4 needs, and I quickly found 16Gb was more what I needed (actually 12Gb would be best but 16 is fine thanks!). No need to skimp if he can fork over for it.
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December 1, 2013 12:44:26 AM

Tom Tancredi said:
realchaos said:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£168.94 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£108.03 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£63.53 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£65.49 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£46.84 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card (£227.46 @ Dabs)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£76.99 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£48.99 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£12.50 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £842.76
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-01 08:03 GMT+0000)

i5 and 8gb of ram is plenty for games. You will get no performance increase with an i7 and 16gb of ram.
Cheaper board, has everything you need.
Cheaper psu, just as good quality.
Downgraded the SSD to 120gb. 120gb should be plenty for os and a handful of games.
Added in a GPU. No point in waiting, your budget is big enough to max out any game at 1080p, so you should utilize that.


I would contend a different response here. While not 'necessary' you will actually get a 'increase' by a i7 over a i5 with HIGHend video cards like the R9s, because the i5 will bottleneck the performance, for example in BF4. Don't take just my word for it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cj8RP4kEGo @ 2:50 will demonstrate the differences between i5 and i7.

As for not going 16GB, I don't think that is forward smart (OP stated they wanted a 5 year lasting gaming system), and I regularly use jut 4Gb running my OS, Antivirus, Im client, streaming music, etc. all just to surf webpages or work on a Word Doc. Add in BF4 needs, and I quickly found 16Gb was more what I needed (actually 12Gb would be best but 16 is fine thanks!). No need to skimp if he can fork over for it.


Thats my thinking also Tom. But i would like for someone to prove us wrong. I would really love to pay less for the same performance even after 4-5 years, if that is possible.

I change the list a bit. As i said i will save some money till summer..arround 500 pounds to get a hight end maxwell card.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£246.99 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£108.03 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£138.19 @ Scan.co.uk)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£65.49 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£46.84 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£76.99 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (£85.42 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer (£12.50 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £804.44
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-01 08:42 GMT+0000)
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December 1, 2013 12:46:58 AM

And i also would like to keep the seasonic. I dont trust xfx. I had bad experience before with a powersupply from them
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December 1, 2013 1:03:50 AM

BF4 is one of the very few games that shows a performance increase with an i7 over an i5. But by how much? Look at this from Tomshardware: http://media.bestofmicro.com/L/B/403823/original/CPU.pn...

It's using a socket LGA 2011 i7, which is stronger than the average i7-4770k, yet it only produces minimal fps increase over the i5. You can expect that the average i7 (not socket LGA 2011) will produce only a 3-5 fps increase. Even the video you posted, the i7 provided minimal performance increase. Now, is $100 (or in this case, £80) actually worth the 3-5 fps increase? Not really. You're better off using the money somewhere else. But it doesn't even matter. The OP is planning to use a GTX 570 until summer hits. Not like he can play BF4 with it anyways. It will bottleneck both the i5 and the i7.

Also, RAM is very upgradeable. Stick with 2x4gb for now, as it is generally enough for games. Then see if you're actually using all 8 gb. If you are, then add more, it's simple. Again, RAM bottleneck would not be the problem here in Bf4. His gpu will be.
Also, no system can play modern games for the next 5 years. Perhaps the processor can last, but the gpu definitely won't.
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December 1, 2013 1:16:36 AM

Sorry for the many questions but i really want to choose the right part for my rig :) 

I agree also with you that realchaos that with the average i7 the increase in fps will be minimal. But new games that will come out will benefit from more cores (like watchdogs,next gen fps games...etc). The 80 pounds more for an i7 will not be a wise choise?Even if it dosnt seem like that now.

About the ram now. LEts say i buy 2x4gb now, and add later another 2x4gb. That means all the dimm slots of the memory will be full. Isnt better just get 2x8gb now and take advandage of the dual channel? (less stress on the cpu)And i will probably pay more for the additional ram :)  prices go up

I also agree that 570 gtx will bottleneck my system till i get the new maxwell in summer. In 3-4 years its the only part that i will upgrade and see improvement in the FPS in games. And that means in 3-4 yeas i will still have 16gb..2x8gb and i7 (8 cores). I I beilieve in 2-3 years all the games will benefit from more cores.

Please feel free to correct me if you see anything wrong in my thinking. Iam trying to figure out how all works
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December 1, 2013 1:20:59 AM

Those numbers look alot different then the ONE OF MANY VIDEOS/scores showing the bottleneck (which makes sense because your talking 8 Cores vs say 6 at best, but most often 4 cores) that BF4 decides to take advantage of. And NO It isn't 3-5FPS, because your not actually pointing to the ALL i7s, your only comparing the i5 2500K (Sandy Bridge 3rd Gen) to the older i7-930 (1st Gen), not to the current Gen hardwares (3970). If you compare PROPERLY the 3930/3970 i7 crank out 53-68/59-74, while the best i5 2500K does is 41-54, which is a difference of 12-14/18-20 FPS NOT 3-4.

If you wanted to compare a bit more, then the i7 2600K vs the i5 2500K still is a difference of 7FPS, but again whom is going to buy older 3rd Gen chips for a system the OP wants for the next 5years forward? It be best to go with the Ivy or better yet Haswell investment.

So before you start tossing that around you might want to compare apples to apples.
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December 1, 2013 1:38:35 AM

Everyone wants a future proof machine and spend like 2 grand but in a couple of years you can get those parts for like $750
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Best solution

December 1, 2013 1:58:37 AM

First off, I would like to state that the i7 does not have 8 cores. The i7-2600k/3770k/4770k are all quad cores with hyper-threading.

@OP: We have no clue if future games will take advantage of hyper-threading or not. There has been many speculations that next gen games will, but there has also been many speculations of the same thing in the past, but right now it still does not utilize hyper-threading. On the ram part, even if you go with 4x4gb ram, do you really need more than 16gb. 16gb is already overkill for games. If you did go with 2x8gb, then would you seriously upgrade to 32gb of ram? That's just a waste of money, no matter how you look at it.

@Tom: I have no clue where you are getting 8cores, 6 cores, etc. But that does not matter. You're comparing a socket LGA 2011 i7 with a socket LGA 1150 i5. What happened to comparing apples to apples? Obviously socket LGA 2011 i7 performs better than a socket LGA 1150/1155 i5 as you are going to be paying an extra $100-200 for the processor and then another extra $100-200 for the motherboard. Also, I don't believe I mentioned the i7-930 anywhere. It was only you that mentioned that processor.

Yes it is true, it only shows Sandy Bridge processors. Yes it is older, but so what? The difference between Sandy, Ivy, and Haswell are all very minimal. A Sandy bridge processor like the i5-2500k is still very relevant today. Now you want to compare apple to apple? Here:
http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/734/bench/CPU_...

As you can see, the difference between the i5-3570k and i7-3770k is nothing. Well, that seems a bit weird. I agree that the i7-3770k should have higher fps by a bit, but it's already over 60fps so it doesn't matter.

Anyways, OP, whether an i5 or i7 it doesn't matter. As long as you have a good high-end gpu, you'll be able to max out any game. We cannot foresee the future, so we cannot tell you whether or not next-gen games will utilize hyper-threading.
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December 1, 2013 2:22:18 AM

realchaos said:
First off, I would like to state that the i7 does not have 8 cores. The i7-2600k/3770k/4770k are all quad cores with hyper-threading.

@OP: We have no clue if future games will take advantage of hyper-threading or not. There has been many speculations that next gen games will, but there has also been many speculations of the same thing in the past, but right now it still does not utilize hyper-threading. On the ram part, even if you go with 4x4gb ram, do you really need more than 16gb. 16gb is already overkill for games. If you did go with 2x8gb, then would you seriously upgrade to 32gb of ram? That's just a waste of money, no matter how you look at it.

@Tom: I have no clue where you are getting 8cores, 6 cores, etc. But that does not matter. You're comparing a socket LGA 2011 i7 with a socket LGA 1150 i5. What happened to comparing apples to apples? Obviously socket LGA 2011 i7 performs better than a socket LGA 1150/1155 i5 as you are going to be paying an extra $100-200 for the processor and then another extra $100-200 for the motherboard. Also, I don't believe I mentioned the i7-930 anywhere. It was only you that mentioned that processor.

Yes it is true, it only shows Sandy Bridge processors. Yes it is older, but so what? The difference between Sandy, Ivy, and Haswell are all very minimal. A Sandy bridge processor like the i5-2500k is still very relevant today. Now you want to compare apple to apple? Here:
http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/734/bench/CPU_...

As you can see, the difference between the i5-3570k and i7-3770k is nothing. Well, that seems a bit weird. I agree that the i7-3770k should have higher fps by a bit, but it's already over 60fps so it doesn't matter.

Anyways, OP, whether an i5 or i7 it doesn't matter. As long as you have a good high-end gpu, you'll be able to max out any game. We cannot foresee the future, so we cannot tell you whether or not next-gen games will utilize hyper-threading.



i see your point . From my view is up to me to choose to spend 80 pounts to the proseccor.
Now for the ram. You really think that 8gb ram would be enought for gaming and normal web/browsing hd movies...etc?



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December 1, 2013 11:36:01 AM

Yeah 8gb is plenty. Remember, you can always upgrade it to 16gb. Even though all of the ram slots would be filled, you were never going to upgrade to 32gb anwyays.
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