Getting Internet on Guest Network from 2nd Router

Hi, this is quite a bit of a long question:

My current setup consists of:

* Router A - Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ (modem & router 2 in 1), courtesy of good ol' Virgin Media
This has been in my experience an awful router with problems such as poor coverage, high disconnection rate, and the inability to even do the DHCP task properly. For example, even when trying to do address reservation, even though my laptop is correctly assigned the reserved IP the first time, if i reboot it, it gets assigned another IP ....

As such, as much as the services from router-modem A have been turned of with the exception of DHCP.
Current configuration is:

1 ISP (Virgin) & IP

*Router A: Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+

Router Address: 192.168.1.1
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
DHCP from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.20

For my wireless needs and tasks, come into play:

*Router B: Trendnet-752dru, just bought

This is a decent router/wireless router for the money and currently the configuration is

[Router A] [LAN port] <-------> [Router B] [LAN port] <-------> 3 Wireless APs

DHCP off
One Wireless AP on 5GHz band
One Wireless AP on 2.4Ghz band
+ 1 Guest AP on 2.4Ghz (the router has the ability to create one guest network for each AP band)

However, because the Guest AP is obviously going to be on another subnet (that's the point of a guest network though) it will not have internet access.

My question thus is:

1. How can I get internet access on the guest network in the current configuration without bridging the guest network to the main network (there is an option in the configuration to do that) ? Is this even possible?
I would like to do this preferably by not making use of double address name resolution through subnetting and still have the option of addressing computers connected to router B from the WAN.

What I am trying to do is use as much of the functionality of Router B, but because of platforms such as Steam, I still need the DHCP on router A I am guessing because I tried subnetting and steam would not let 2 pcs run different accounts under the same subnet which was routed through the link from Router B to router A

I even tried using DHCP on router a for addresses in the range 192.168.1.2 -192.168.1.20 and then DHCP on router B from 192.168.1.21-192.168.1.30 but that did not seem to work either in giving internet access to the guest network.
10 answers Last reply
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  1. If your real concerns are guest Internet access and being able to play STEAM from machines on router B, then try this. If that is not your goal please advise me.

    Router B should be configured as an AP with DHCP off and a static address (that is also entered in the static table of router A) just like any AP. Increase your Router A DHCP pool a bit, say 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.40. Router B can then be static at 192.168.1.50.

    The guest network is part of Router B and it will have Internet access but will be secured from your other stuff.

    If your guest network is not up to your liking, then I would buy a separate cheap router C, attach from Router A LAN to the Router C WAN and make it a separate subnet with no access to your network. Router C would just need to use a WAN and DNS address of Router A's gateway IP, leave router C DHCP on (using 192.168.x.1 where x is not 1, use whatever security.
  2. RealBeast said:
    If your real concerns are guest Internet access and being able to play STEAM from machines on router B, then try this. If that is not your goal please advise me.

    Router B should be configured as an AP with DHCP off and a static address (that is also entered in the static table of router A) just like any AP. Increase your Router A DHCP pool a bit, say 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.40. Router B can then be static at 192.168.1.50.

    The guest network is part of Router B and it will have Internet access but will be secured from your other stuff.

    If your guest network is not up to your liking, then I would buy a separate cheap router C, attach from Router A LAN to the Router C WAN and make it a separate subnet with no access to your network. Router C would just need to use a WAN and DNS address of Router A's gateway IP, leave router C DHCP on (using 192.168.x.1 where x is not 1, use whatever security.


    Ok let me clarify a bit.
    Router A is a really bad adsl router/modem combo with no wan port, just ADSL in + 4 Lans out and "Draft N!!", yes in 2013!

    Router B at the moment is configured with:

    + static IP 192.168.1.2
    + dhcp off
    + 3 AP's out of which 1 is the guest network
    + if i turn AP mode on Router B then I have no option for Guest Network anymore :)

    1. I never use router A for anything else except router B being connected to it (because of the problems above, like router A never keeping count of the fact that I DO want address reservation for which it does not seem to care) and there is / will never be anything else attached to it on either wireless or lan (i plan to not use it because of the problems described above)

    2. in this configuration, if i connect something to the guest network of router B (since everything on A is off except dhcp), it gets an ip from the range 192.168.21.xx or so. and it does not connect through to the internet.

    3. If I connect router B as you described (as far as I understood):
    [Router A][Lan port] <------> [Router B][Wan port] and turn on AP point on Router B then I cannot connect to it anymore no matter what address I try and it does not show up on the "attached devices" tab of Router A either! weird?!,

    Ideally what I would like to do, is somehow move the functionality of router A to router B without resorting to double NAT or such...
  3. With most of the combo units from ISPs not much is possible and most have specific firmware (idiots). But you are still using A for DHCP and it must have a place to enter static routes or at least functional dynamic address reservation. If that is questionable just add the Router B to the static table of A (you need Router B's MAC address to do that but it is simple).

    Router B has an address that is in the Router A DHCP range, which can cause issues, unless A has properly working address reservation.

    No -- Router B needs an LAN to LAN connection to Router A. It is router C, the new guest access router that would connect from Router A LAN to router C WAN port to create a separate subnet that will connect to the Internet since you would set its WAN and DNS address to 192.168.1.1, but C would have its own subnet (let's say 192.168.5.1) and DHCP on to serve its wireless guests.

    And when you say that Router B has three APs, do you mean three radios or three actual APs connected by Ethernet cable to Router B LAN port? If so, each also needs a static address set in the router A static table -- except for the guest network AP that will get a new connection.

    Once properly configured this will work better than trying to mess with the combo unit -- I've done it many many times. We just need to get all the little details correct.
  4. You best bet it to toss router A in the trash at least logically. You should be able to set the router to bridge mode which should in effect make it convert DSL ATM to ethernet and not much else. On route B you should then be able to configure PPPoE to get it to connect to the ISP and get a IP address.

    At this point things should be much simpler. Just be aware that the guest network on most routers is intentionally very restrictive. It is designed to allow a guest to access the internet but not access you main network.
  5. RealBeast said:
    With most of the combo units from ISPs not much is possible and most have specific firmware (idiots). But you are still using A for DHCP and it must have a place to enter static routes or at least functional dynamic address reservation. If that is questionable just add the Router B to the static table of A (you need Router B's MAC address to do that but it is simple).

    Router B has an address that is in the Router A DHCP range, which can cause issues, unless A has properly working address reservation.

    No -- Router B needs an LAN to LAN connection to Router A. It is router C, the new guest access router that would connect from Router A LAN to router C WAN port to create a separate subnet that will connect to the Internet since you would set its WAN and DNS address to 192.168.1.1, but C would have its own subnet (let's say 192.168.5.1) and DHCP on to serve its wireless guests.

    And when you say that Router B has three APs, do you mean three radios or three actual APs connected by Ethernet cable to Router B LAN port? If so, each also needs a static address set in the router A static table -- except for the guest network AP that will get a new connection.

    Once properly configured this will work better than trying to mess with the combo unit -- I've done it many many times. We just need to get all the little details correct.


    1. Thanks for the help and being understanding, its exactly getting those little things right that drives me nuts with this setup
    2. I didnt know that assigning within dhcp range could cause problems, i will change that
    3. Yes i was referring to three radios (router B has 2 bands on which you can create an additional 2 guest networks, however i only need one)
    3.. Ideally I would want DHCP from router B as i never connect anything to A. I'm using the current setup just because its the defaulted automated that router B has gone to which the 2 secure radios work, however the guest one does not, because as you said, it is doing what an additional router would, creating a subnet

    i have attached 2 print screens,
    as you can see, even though i have reserved addresses for my devices, lo and behold they have been assigned completely different ones ... :|

    http://imgur.com/HyatRQq
    http://imgur.com/EaZun5J

    To be more specific, what I require of my setup:
    1. Router A should not be used for anything except providing a connection to router B (or anything else that is required)
    2. Router B has all radios (including guest ones) able to connect to the internet and guest not bridged to internal network
    3. I can access computers/devices behind router B from WAN
    4. all devices connect to router B through radios or lan
    5. i can connect to gaming services such as steam from 2 different computers behind router b with 2 separate accounts for example

    I would be grateful if you could give an example config of sorts that you would think would work, and where cables should be connected. Cheers
  6. You best bet it to toss router A in the trash at least logically. You should be able to set the router to bridge mode which should in effect make it convert DSL ATM to ethernet and not much else. On route B you should then be able to configure PPPoE to get it to connect to the ISP and get a IP address.

    Unfortunately it is Adsl and PPoA, i will search for the bridging option though...

    Quote:

    At this point things should be much simpler. Just be aware that the guest network on most routers is intentionally very restrictive. It is designed to allow a guest to access the internet but not access you main network.


    yes that is what i want :)
  7. 1) sure, but on the LAN setup page increase the DHCP service range a bit from .3 to .100 for little more flexibility. Under Advanced the Static Routes Tab, add the AP 192.168.1.2 and enter its MAC address.
    2) In the new router if you uncheck enable guest routing between zones on the guest zone page you will be fine.
    3-5) none should be an issue if you disable the wireless radio in the Netgear -- under Advanced Wireless Settings, uncheck "Enable Wireless Router Radio" in thee Netgear pages.
  8. RealBeast said:
    1) sure, but on the LAN setup page increase the DHCP service range a bit from .3 to .100 for little more flexibility. Under Advanced the Static Routes Tab, add the AP 192.168.1.2 and enter its MAC address.
    2) In the new router if you uncheck enable guest routing between zones on the guest zone page you will be fine.
    3-5) none should be an issue if you disable the wireless radio in the Netgear -- under Advanced Wireless Settings, uncheck "Enable Wireless Router Radio" in thee Netgear pages.


    ill try the static route version, my problem is that with the current configuration the guest network won't connect to the internet :)

    thanks again to everyone, i'll try all the suggestions and see how I get along
  9. Because your Router B is bridged, it is not providing the VLAN (Guest Network) any 'routing', which is what Bridging is (turning off and just dumbpassing the two networks traffice back and forth).

    If "What I am trying to do is use as much of the functionality of Router B" then you should disable DHCP and such in the Router A as a 'WAN BRIDGE' to the Router B and let Router B handle the networking aspect.

    Further I am suspecting something was 'overlooked', if Router A is transmitting Wirelessly still it is broadcasting in the same range potentially as Router B and going to cause interference. If Router A is unable to turn off Wireless, I would suggest putting it on a different channel then B.
  10. Quote:
    Because your Router B is bridged, it is not providing the VLAN (Guest Network) any 'routing', which is what Bridging is (turning off and just dumbpassing the two networks traffice back and forth).


    Yes I am suspecting this is the case since its connected on a LAN port not the WAN one.

    Quote:
    If "What I am trying to do is use as much of the functionality of Router B" then you should disable DHCP and such in the Router A as a 'WAN BRIDGE' to the Router B and let Router B handle the networking aspect.


    The problem is I don't exactly know how to do that without creating a subnet (and thus making every device on router B inaccessible from the WAN without complicated setup) since there is not a button on the netgear page (again, I suspect intentionally via VirginMedia) like there is on the Trendnet one to make the netgear one just pass throught the "decapsulated" traffic. It has an option to bridge the connection, but the Trendnet Router has no PPoA capabilities ..

    Quote:

    Further I am suspecting something was 'overlooked', if Router A is transmitting Wirelessly still it is broadcasting in the same range potentially as Router B and going to cause interference. If Router A is unable to turn off Wireless, I would suggest putting it on a different channel then B.


    Again, everything is turned off on A except dhcp, but thats because that's the only way i've managed to get it working at all.

    Router B has 3 SSIDs broadcasting, out of which 1 is the guest network, that creates a subnet and thus no VLAN (Guest Network) is getting through to router A :)
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