newbie gamer build - any good?

giantbucket

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so I've been kicking around the idea of putting together a gaming pc over the next few months, and came up with this one. any thoughts? this would be a "beginner / recreational gamer" type of thing, no crazy Crysis3 at 4K and 120fps. just for some weekend fun, primarily feeding a 1080p monitor but maybe moving on to a 1440p screen mid-year.

what would you change? budget is important since this isn't for a SERIOUS gamer (uh, it's for me, and I'm not a SERIOUS gamer). I've excluded a few items on purpose since I can pick those last and they won't affect the actual gameplay or visuals. the GSkill memory I can take from my current non-gaming PC (which has 16G, so I can spare half of it) hence it's $0.

I'm in Canada, so prices are never as good as USA.

oh, it should be ITX whenever possible, though I can (reluctantly) go as large as mATX.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/2jjrq

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-4330 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($142.50 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Scythe SCNJ-3000 110.3 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($43.24 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Asus H87I-PLUS Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($114.95 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: A-Data XPG SX900 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (Purchased For $0.00)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($269.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit - OEM (64-bit) ($123.34 @ TigerDirect Canada)
Total: $694.02
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-12 16:35 EST-0500)

 
Solution
Ahh, that's a good looking case. I wasn't aware it was available for sale yet, though.

It's got a lot of room for a graphics card, but you'll still want to get a blower-style card; it doesn't have much ventilation.
If you can swing an i5, get one of the ones that can't overclock - dealing with the heat overclocking produces without having a liquid cooling rig in a case that small is hard. Then get a low profile cooler - I like the GeminII S524 from Cooler Master, as you can put a 140mm fan on it. As for the motherboard, go with an h87 or h77 board depending on if you get ivy bridge or haswell - might be hard to find, so z87 and z77 are the same chipset but with overclocking enabled.
As for the GPU, a 780 is overkill and might well be...

giantbucket

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1080p now, 1440p would be nice later on - but as I said, not crazy high-settings on intense games. I'm more into adventure / rpg / etc. while I have played unreal and half-life in the past, I've also played myst / riven and those types of games and enjoyed them as much as (or more than) the unreal-style of play.

as to my other machine being converted to games - that's a firm "no" cuz my non-gaming PC is set up to run 6 monitors using 2 mid-grade graphics cards (HD7790s, 2D stuff, so quantity instead of raw power), and it has to have 24/7 uninterrupted uptime so I can't/won't load games on it. firm and complete separation of "work" and "play" machines. plus, it'll prevent distractions and "hmm, let's play while I'm taking a break from work"
 
Gotcha. Just out of curiosity, what in the world do you use your work PC for, trading?

How dedicated are you to the mini-itx size? I ask, because most mini-itx cases (aside from the oversized ones like the Prodigy) won't even fit a 660ti - I could barely cram a 650 in my HTPC/Steambox.

I'm actually exactly the guy you want to be talking to, as my specialty is mini-itx and making things cram into places you wouldn't think they could fit. (Yeah yeah, haha.)

Seriously, though - with a little ingenuity you can take 5" cube and pack a decent processor, mid-level card, and sound card, powered by a full ATX power supply. It all comes down to how much work you're willing to put into it. Making a small gaming computer ALWAYS is going to require you to do some modding. Is that an option for you?

If it isn't, we can design you something built around a larger case like the Prodigy.
 

giantbucket

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what in the world trading is right! it's my dedicated forex machine, hence the 6 screens.

as to the ITX - well, my last build* was a mATX and i found it insanely hard to find a nice small case for it. the only thing that really appealed to me was the Silverstone SG09, and to be honest the Prodigy looked "interesting" but not something i'd take home - kinda bulky and in a way, ugly. even the SG09 isn't pleasing, but at least it's less offensive.

but - while i was poking, i noticed that all the nice-looking and compact cases were purely for ITX, and since i really don't need any boards other than a GPU, the ITX makes perfect sense. except maybe board length as you pointed out (which i partly forgot about)

modding - hmm, i'm not keen on it. i don't even like overclocking - heck, i'd rather pay $20 extra for a factory-overclocked CPU or GPU than to try it myself. case in point - for my new forex machine, i bought an FX-6350 instead of a 6300, cuz (AFAIK) it's OC'd from the factory and the $$ jump was small. ditto for GPUs when i browse - i'd rather buy the OC'd version for $30 more than to push a stocker. so, i guess with cases, i'd be unlikely to whip out the dremel / air chisel.

so... that was lengthy.

short version - what CPU and GPU would be better for a just-for-fun gaming machine that's better than a console and gives me some room or path to upgrade every 3 years? **


* last build was 1.5yrs ago, A6-3650 w/ 4G DDR3-1600, which was great for 1-2 screens but once i started trying to expand, i was stuck with shitty GPU cards & slot limitations (x16/x4). it's being retired and a new forex machine is being built (FX6350+HD7790)

** that last build is still here, being phased out, and COULD be used for a gaming build if it's worthwhile (but folks have told me it's too weak to bother)
 
Ahh, yeah, I had a hunch that was it.

I hear you on the decent looking small cases end, though. So many of them are just godawful. I'm going to make a suggestion here that you might or might not like, but here it is: Spend more money.

Go look at Caselabs. They're designed and made in the USA, and are just about the. freaking. nicest. cases you'll ever find. The side panels just pop right off, the cooling and layouts are incredibly well designed, everything is finished PERFECTLY... I'm absolutely in love with mine.

Now, there are a couple downsides to them that you should know:
1. They're expensive. Part of that is that they're custom-cut aluminium, part of that is that they're made in the US... but they are expensive.
2. They're large. Caselabs made a name for itself by making larger-than life cases that would sit on the floor and be taller than the desk. They looked like server chassis, but were loved for how much space they gave.

Recently, however, they came out with the mercury series. The S3 and S5 are mini-ITX micro-ATX cases, respectively. I would seriously go look at the S3.

It's slightly smaller than a Prodigy, has, in my eyes, much better looks, and is an incredibly amazing case. It's got just about the best layout that I've ever seen in a case, room for full-sized graphics cards, an incredible number of options for both water and air cooling. (I'm able to use a 2x120mm radiator in the front AND a 2x140mm radiator in the top, and not even notice them.) It's got 3 PCIe slots, which is a huge luxury on a mini-ITX build. It's got well-designed airflow, and a build that's very, very easy to put your build together in.

Aside from one of the limited-run customer-designed mini-itx gaming cases like the N1, which you can't buy and would be almost the same price, it's the best looking, easiest to use, smallest case to put a gaming rig in, period. It's also built like a tank and will last you a very very long time.



Now, the downside to a $200 case is that you don't have as much money to spend on components, and mini-itx tends to be a pricy form factor. However, you'd be able to get yourself an i3 and medium-quality GPU, which will be plenty for RPGs, that sort of thing, and then will be able to upgrade easier down the road.
 

giantbucket

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hmm, i googled the S3 and it's not bad, but i'm in Canada so shipping will likely double the price (UPS thinks we're sheep so we get fleeced all the time). and actually i just stumbled on an Antec ISK600 which seems quite ideal i think (and can be found on my side of the border for an acceptable price).

but other than case models, what's your (and anyone else's) take on the right CPU / mobo / GPU for my level of gamer? i3? i5? GTX660? GTX780? for some unknown reason, i'm leaning towards an Intel+nVidia combo. maybe cuz i've already had AMD+nVid and AMD+AMD stuff...
 
Ahh, that's a good looking case. I wasn't aware it was available for sale yet, though.

It's got a lot of room for a graphics card, but you'll still want to get a blower-style card; it doesn't have much ventilation.
If you can swing an i5, get one of the ones that can't overclock - dealing with the heat overclocking produces without having a liquid cooling rig in a case that small is hard. Then get a low profile cooler - I like the GeminII S524 from Cooler Master, as you can put a 140mm fan on it. As for the motherboard, go with an h87 or h77 board depending on if you get ivy bridge or haswell - might be hard to find, so z87 and z77 are the same chipset but with overclocking enabled.
As for the GPU, a 780 is overkill and might well be too long still. I would look at the 760, which gives you great performance and will last you a long time with what you're doing. It's also relatively cheap, as GPUs go, is the latest hardware, so puts off less heat, and has the power to do some more serious gaming if you ask it to.

Intel+Nvidia is pretty much undisputably the way to go in small form factor builds, because they produce less heat - and you have to be serious about managing heat in a tiny case like that.
 
Solution

giantbucket

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cool, thanks! i'm starting to get a good grasp on these things now. the i5 / H87 setup is sensible since i wouldn't overclock, and yeah the price on a 760 is actually... well, it's not horrible at all. been looking at reviews of various cards on YT (and that LinusTechTips guy is quite a good resource), and yeah seems an ASUS 760 might be right up my alley. if sales over the next 2-3 weeks are favourable, i may end up building this by mid-January.

my credit cards are gonna melt... considering that my forex machine was just bought a few weeks ago! :p
 
I absolutely love linus; he knows what he's talking about and does very good reviews.

It seems to be a good option for you, yeah - though I would recommend EVGA as they have a better warranty, better customer service, and now with their ACX cooler, something to rival Asus's DCII cooler.

Haha, ouch. Got bit by the bug HARD, didja? ;)
 

giantbucket

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haha! yeah, seems so! i've always liked building "stuff", and the technology that goes into this is actually kinda cool. heck, if i had more disposable income, i'd build a machine just for the fun of building a machine with nice-looking parts and never even bother installing anything on it :p

the last time i was really into computers was when the 386DX existed, and once things went DX and SX, 386 / 387 and 486, it started happening & changing too fast for me to be able to keep up, so i kinda let it all go. now, it's pretty f'n fun again! :)
 
Oh, trust me, I completely understand. Just be careful you never let yourself get into modding and watercooling, or you'll find out JUST how far down the rabbit hole goes. ;)

*Whistles* That was a while before my time. Just under ten years, I believe. Just curious, what sort of games to you like to play? I ask because I'm heavily into RPGs as well, and might be able to point out some good ones that you've missed.
 

giantbucket

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honestly i haven't played in a while, so i'd be trying stuff quite fresh, but the stuff that i remember playing and liking is things along the lines of Myst/Riven, Siberia, Assassin's Creed, Unreal/Half-Life (with cheat codes), etc. i generally don't go for shooters but did try Halo on my X360 and it was mostly fun as long as i don't take it seriously. and i've never played any online stuff since i tend to play things "my way".

cool thing is that when i bought my two 7790s for the forex machine, i got those bronze game card things which i've yet to use (and 2 weeks to do it). no idea if i could use those and load games onto a system with an nVid card, though :p
 

RazerZ

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I would go for something like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4430 3.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($194.85 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($81.88 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: A-Data XPG SX900 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (Purchased For $0.00)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($274.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit - OEM (64-bit) ($123.34 @ TigerDirect Canada)
Total: $704.84
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-14 10:50 EST-0500)
 
RazerZ, that's pretty much exactly what I recommended six posts ago. :p

GiantBucket, You can absolutely take those AMD game bundle cards and use them on another computer, yes. Going off of those, I'm going to recommend a few games. (I too, tend to favor single player games.)

Assassin's Creed IV - the first in the series I've enjoyed start to finish.

The Avernum series, or anything from Spiderweb Software - excellently crafted old-school rpgs.

Bastion - has an incredible story, combined with sound and art that backs it up perfectly.

Dear Esther - Like Myst, but more purely about discovery.

Titan Quest / its successor, Grim Dawn - action RPGs that started as Diablo clones and I found actually bettered Diablo.

Mirror's Edge - if I were to recommend one game, it would be this one. Bloody incredible game; like nothing else out there.

Portal - If you haven't played it, it's another must-have; amazing gameplay, incredibly well developed characters, and puzzles that actually make you think. (I personally liked portal 1 better than portal 2, but many people disagree with me.)

The Stanley Parable - great story driven game... especially for those of us who like going off the beaten path. Seriously, it's cheap and you'll love it.
 

giantbucket

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a) ok, so i've got my mobo picked out (GA-H87N-WIFI) which i'll likely pick up soon (tomorrow?) since it's got a good discount + rebate through a local store now and i figure might as well go Haswell. i'll wait for some kick-ass pricing on i5 stuff over christmas/boxing (skipping the i3 unless it's free), and maybe run with onboard graphics until i can score a great deal on a GPU in the GTX760 range (plus or minus a grade, no lower than 660Ti Boost Superclocked Turbo Ultra Limited Edition)

b) wow, ok, thanks for the reminder! i actually DID play Mirror's Edge (X360) and bloody hell that's a wicked game! ditto for Portal (X360 as well), way too much fun just punching random holes. only played the first one, can't recall how far i got in it but i know i didn't finish it for some reason (probably got sidetracked with work and stuff). i might have to dust off the X360 and hook it up just to replay some of that old stuff i have. but yeah, thanks for the list - it'll get me (re)started!
 
That's a decent motherboard - just one word of warning. I would make sure you have a CPU you can test in it RIGHT NOW, because if the motherboard isn't working, Gigabyte's RMA system is absolute hell on wheels... and if you wait past the amount of time your local shop allows you to return defective parts, then you're going to be pretty much screwed. Sounds like a pretty good plan, though I would avoid the 660ti - they had issues because of limited memory bandwidth.

Glad to hear that I managed to peak your interest - I know it can be a kinda odd experience building this awesome gaming computer and then going, "okay, what now?"
 

giantbucket

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yeah, local store is actually pretty good at returns and they have extended direct-replacement plans for up to 3yrs for a few bucks ($12-$16 in this case). but yeah, if i accept going with a CPU-only/no-GPU-yet solution, it's easier to squeeze the expense into a shorter timeframe which should let me put it all together and fire it up - even if all i use for the initial check & 24hr burn-in is an Ubuntu Live-CD

:)
 

giantbucket

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so after much back-n-forth and far too much YouTube and Google info, here's where I ended up. I decided not to blow my wad too soon cuz I've been out of gaming for a good 7 years.

i3-4130 $120 Canadian
GA-H87N-WiFi $100 Cdn
EVGA GTX650 Ti Boost Superclocked 1GB $125 Cdn
GSkill 8G DDR3-1600 $55 Cdn
Corsair H55 cooling $55 Cdn

a lot of comparisons showed me that the 4130 is only around 15-20% down compared to a 4670 in most games, so for me that's an acceptable trade-off at basically half the price. and that EVGA was too good of a deal (discount plus rebate) to pass up - should keep me happy for a year or maybe two before I really want to go a few levels up. I was actually REALLY close to grabbing an MSI GTX760, but... just couldn't bring myself to go overboard that much this early in the getting-back-to-gaming game - so i'll buy the equivalent of it when I rebuild in 2 years. and yeah, pretty well everything was bought when on sale, anywhere from 10% to 30% discounts.

upside? I get more funds to buy the actual games now! should be able to put it all together and set up Win8.1 over the weekend.