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JBOD then RAID 1?

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December 12, 2013 8:37:08 PM

I would think this is an easy question to answer, but so hard to Google.

Can 2 HDD's set up as JBOD be set into RAID 1 with another 2 HDD's also set as JBOD?

I'm sifting through my options and just wondering if this in an alternative. I understand that the RAID 0 part of RAID 10 would have a speed enhancement, but I'm concerned with how I might one day need to recover striped data if say, my MOBO died.

Thanks.

More about : jbod raid

a b G Storage
December 12, 2013 8:50:10 PM

Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.
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December 12, 2013 9:03:55 PM

VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)
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0
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a b G Storage
December 12, 2013 9:33:55 PM

Muther said:
VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)


Wary of the word "merge". You will lose any existing data on the drives when you reconfigure the raid array.
If the mirrored 3TB drives are you boot drive, you will need to get UEFI to work correctly.
64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 support UEFI boot.

In my home PC I have an SSD for booting, then storage is 2 x 3TB drives + 2 x 2TB drives. Shortcuts work fine without trying to combine the disks.
If mirroring is because you are worried about data loss, the best solution is an external drive that you plug in and backup the data regularly, even better if you don't keep it with the computer in case of fire or theft.
m
0
l
December 12, 2013 10:10:10 PM

VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)


Wary of the word "merge". You will lose any existing data on the drives when you reconfigure the raid array.
If the mirrored 3TB drives are you boot drive, you will need to get UEFI to work correctly.
64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 support UEFI boot.

In my home PC I have an SSD for booting, then storage is 2 x 3TB drives + 2 x 2TB drives. Shortcuts work fine without trying to combine the disks.
If mirroring is because you are worried about data loss, the best solution is an external drive that you plug in and backup the data regularly, even better if you don't keep it with the computer in case of fire or theft.


Thanks again for your time.

Hmmm...

I am installing Win 7-64 on an SSD, so that is not a concern. The data will be copied onto the new drives after they are configured from my old externals (3 of them). I'll keep the externals and likely store them at my brother's. As such they will be off-site, by not current. If disaster struck I'd still have the majority of data still intact.

Now, when I say shortcuts, I mean like 7000 of them. They are troublesome at times, but great to have. I seem to have trouble when migrating folders across drives. Editing lots of shortcuts is not fun. Best if I can have 2x3TB as one drive letter. The mirror is ideal because it is constantly being updated and I have found it difficult to keep my backups up-to-date. Every couple months I can bring the externals home from my brother's...

Long story short, I'm just thinking of triple redundancy with one off-site and automatic/instant mirroring, but I'm not super fond of the idea of striping.

Are your 2x2TB backup? If you have any other ideas, please I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again!
m
0
l
a b G Storage
December 12, 2013 10:37:44 PM

Muther said:
VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)


Wary of the word "merge". You will lose any existing data on the drives when you reconfigure the raid array.
If the mirrored 3TB drives are you boot drive, you will need to get UEFI to work correctly.
64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 support UEFI boot.

In my home PC I have an SSD for booting, then storage is 2 x 3TB drives + 2 x 2TB drives. Shortcuts work fine without trying to combine the disks.
If mirroring is because you are worried about data loss, the best solution is an external drive that you plug in and backup the data regularly, even better if you don't keep it with the computer in case of fire or theft.


Thanks again for your time.

Hmmm...

I am installing Win 7-64 on an SSD, so that is not a concern. The data will be copied onto the new drives after they are configured from my old externals (3 of them). I'll keep the externals and likely store them at my brother's. As such they will be off-site, by not current. If disaster struck I'd still have the majority of data still intact.

Now, when I say shortcuts, I mean like 7000 of them. They are troublesome at times, but great to have. I seem to have trouble when migrating folders across drives. Editing lots of shortcuts is not fun. Best if I can have 2x3TB as one drive letter. The mirror is ideal because it is constantly being updated and I have found it difficult to keep my backups up-to-date. Every couple months I can bring the externals home from my brother's...

Long story short, I'm just thinking of triple redundancy with one off-site and automatic/instant mirroring, but I'm not super fond of the idea of striping.

Are your 2x2TB backup? If you have any other ideas, please I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again!


The drives I mentioned are internal, I have external drives to back these up.
With the shortcuts, can't you just short cut to the parent folder rather than all the sub folders or files?

One other thing you could do buy a NAS with raid, then setup a backup schedule so it happens automatically.
Your spending money in this case, but I guess it depends on how worried you are about the data.
Hotway and Thecus make enclosures like this.
They typically use 4 drives in a raid 5 array, so you effectively get disks - 1 worth of storage (6TB with 2TB drives, 9TB with 3TB drives or 12TB with 4TB drives.
Maybe you could use the 3TB drives you already have in the NAS and just buy a couple 4TB drives for the PC.
m
0
l
December 13, 2013 4:25:38 AM

VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)


Wary of the word "merge". You will lose any existing data on the drives when you reconfigure the raid array.
If the mirrored 3TB drives are you boot drive, you will need to get UEFI to work correctly.
64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 support UEFI boot.

In my home PC I have an SSD for booting, then storage is 2 x 3TB drives + 2 x 2TB drives. Shortcuts work fine without trying to combine the disks.
If mirroring is because you are worried about data loss, the best solution is an external drive that you plug in and backup the data regularly, even better if you don't keep it with the computer in case of fire or theft.


Thanks again for your time.

Hmmm...

I am installing Win 7-64 on an SSD, so that is not a concern. The data will be copied onto the new drives after they are configured from my old externals (3 of them). I'll keep the externals and likely store them at my brother's. As such they will be off-site, by not current. If disaster struck I'd still have the majority of data still intact.

Now, when I say shortcuts, I mean like 7000 of them. They are troublesome at times, but great to have. I seem to have trouble when migrating folders across drives. Editing lots of shortcuts is not fun. Best if I can have 2x3TB as one drive letter. The mirror is ideal because it is constantly being updated and I have found it difficult to keep my backups up-to-date. Every couple months I can bring the externals home from my brother's...

Long story short, I'm just thinking of triple redundancy with one off-site and automatic/instant mirroring, but I'm not super fond of the idea of striping.

Are your 2x2TB backup? If you have any other ideas, please I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again!


The drives I mentioned are internal, I have external drives to back these up.
With the shortcuts, can't you just short cut to the parent folder rather than all the sub folders or files?

One other thing you could do buy a NAS with raid, then setup a backup schedule so it happens automatically.
Your spending money in this case, but I guess it depends on how worried you are about the data.
Hotway and Thecus make enclosures like this.
They typically use 4 drives in a raid 5 array, so you effectively get disks - 1 worth of storage (6TB with 2TB drives, 9TB with 3TB drives or 12TB with 4TB drives.
Maybe you could use the 3TB drives you already have in the NAS and just buy a couple 4TB drives for the PC.


My apologies for disappearing, bedtime came suddenly.

I considered setting up a NAS, but I also needed a new desktop system with a graphics card. (We've just had laptop powered workstation-type setups for the last few years.) So, I went for an HTPC using a Silverstone GD07 that has room for multiple HDDs, long video cards, etc. The last of the pieces are trickling in this weekend.

As for the shortcuts... this is what happens when someone with 4TB of data quits smoking and channels all their nervous energy into a month of tweaking their filesystem. It really IS a beautiful thing, but mad too... like a mural done in pointillism. Hence, the care in redundancy. I'm now looking to make that larger as well as mirrored.

I've honestly lost sight of the answer to my original question. You said, "Generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD." Did this mean I can RAID1 disks set as JBOD? Or must I choose one or the other?

Our discussion has helped me reframe my question: Essentially, can I RAID1 4 disks into a mirrored pair without striping? Bringing "JBOD" into the question is probably just more confusing. I'm still googling and not finding definitive answers. More often it seems to not be possible save for using Linux software. Other answers seem to veer off into 4 disks in RAID1 = 4 mirrors.

Perhaps I will need to RAID 10 but use a PCI card to guard against mobo crash.

Thanks again. I'll Best Answer your best answer when you're done answering. ;) 
m
0
l

Best solution

a b G Storage
December 13, 2013 4:50:15 AM

Muther said:
VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)


Wary of the word "merge". You will lose any existing data on the drives when you reconfigure the raid array.
If the mirrored 3TB drives are you boot drive, you will need to get UEFI to work correctly.
64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 support UEFI boot.

In my home PC I have an SSD for booting, then storage is 2 x 3TB drives + 2 x 2TB drives. Shortcuts work fine without trying to combine the disks.
If mirroring is because you are worried about data loss, the best solution is an external drive that you plug in and backup the data regularly, even better if you don't keep it with the computer in case of fire or theft.


Thanks again for your time.

Hmmm...

I am installing Win 7-64 on an SSD, so that is not a concern. The data will be copied onto the new drives after they are configured from my old externals (3 of them). I'll keep the externals and likely store them at my brother's. As such they will be off-site, by not current. If disaster struck I'd still have the majority of data still intact.

Now, when I say shortcuts, I mean like 7000 of them. They are troublesome at times, but great to have. I seem to have trouble when migrating folders across drives. Editing lots of shortcuts is not fun. Best if I can have 2x3TB as one drive letter. The mirror is ideal because it is constantly being updated and I have found it difficult to keep my backups up-to-date. Every couple months I can bring the externals home from my brother's...

Long story short, I'm just thinking of triple redundancy with one off-site and automatic/instant mirroring, but I'm not super fond of the idea of striping.

Are your 2x2TB backup? If you have any other ideas, please I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again!


The drives I mentioned are internal, I have external drives to back these up.
With the shortcuts, can't you just short cut to the parent folder rather than all the sub folders or files?

One other thing you could do buy a NAS with raid, then setup a backup schedule so it happens automatically.
Your spending money in this case, but I guess it depends on how worried you are about the data.
Hotway and Thecus make enclosures like this.
They typically use 4 drives in a raid 5 array, so you effectively get disks - 1 worth of storage (6TB with 2TB drives, 9TB with 3TB drives or 12TB with 4TB drives.
Maybe you could use the 3TB drives you already have in the NAS and just buy a couple 4TB drives for the PC.


My apologies for disappearing, bedtime came suddenly.

I considered setting up a NAS, but I also needed a new desktop system with a graphics card. (We've just had laptop powered workstation-type setups for the last few years.) So, I went for an HTPC using a Silverstone GD07 that has room for multiple HDDs, long video cards, etc. The last of the pieces are trickling in this weekend.

As for the shortcuts... this is what happens when someone with 4TB of data quits smoking and channels all their nervous energy into a month of tweaking their filesystem. It really IS a beautiful thing, but mad too... like a mural done in pointillism. Hence, the care in redundancy. I'm now looking to make that larger as well as mirrored.

I've honestly lost sight of the answer to my original question. You said, "Generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD." Did this mean I can RAID1 disks set as JBOD? Or must I choose one or the other?

Our discussion has helped me reframe my question: Essentially, can I RAID1 4 disks into a mirrored pair without striping? Bringing "JBOD" into the question is probably just more confusing. I'm still googling and not finding definitive answers. More often it seems to not be possible save for using Linux software. Other answers seem to veer off into 4 disks in RAID1 = 4 mirrors.

Perhaps I will need to RAID 10 but use a PCI card to guard against mobo crash.

Thanks again. I'll Best Answer your best answer when you're done answering. ;) 

RAID1 is only ever two drives.
The best RAID option for 4 disks is RAID5, which gives you three disks capacity, and you can afford to lose one disk without losing any data.
RAID10 is two disks as a striped raid array (RAID0) and then a mirror of these two disks (RAID1).
Another option would be to create two RAID1 arrays, then use volume spanning in Windows to make them look like one disk.

Share
December 13, 2013 4:53:46 AM

VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Muther said:
VincentP said:
Depends on your raid controller, but generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD.
Motherboard raid controllers aren't interchangable, so if your motherboard dies you will likely lose any RAID other than raid 1.
Raid 0 is striped across the member disks. It is the fastest type of raid, but if you lose a disk you lose data from the whole set.
Don't expect any great performance increase out of a motherboard raid configuration. The overhead (the cpu does all the work) will counteract any increase in speed.
For a home PC, single disk are generally going to give you equal performance with less risk of data loss.
The only real advantage is using JBOD so that you see a group of disks as one in Windows, but performance will be about the same and losing a disk could lose data in the set.


Thank you for your quick response!

I need to merge two 3TB drives as my data has outgrown 4TB, but also heavily relies on shortcuts between folders that really need the same drive letter. The second set of 3TB is for mirroring.

So, it sounds as if it may be possible to merge them and use RAID 1 for the mirror.....

(My MOBO is an As Rock Z77 Extreme 4 and I'm using WD Reds)


Wary of the word "merge". You will lose any existing data on the drives when you reconfigure the raid array.
If the mirrored 3TB drives are you boot drive, you will need to get UEFI to work correctly.
64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 support UEFI boot.

In my home PC I have an SSD for booting, then storage is 2 x 3TB drives + 2 x 2TB drives. Shortcuts work fine without trying to combine the disks.
If mirroring is because you are worried about data loss, the best solution is an external drive that you plug in and backup the data regularly, even better if you don't keep it with the computer in case of fire or theft.


Thanks again for your time.

Hmmm...

I am installing Win 7-64 on an SSD, so that is not a concern. The data will be copied onto the new drives after they are configured from my old externals (3 of them). I'll keep the externals and likely store them at my brother's. As such they will be off-site, by not current. If disaster struck I'd still have the majority of data still intact.

Now, when I say shortcuts, I mean like 7000 of them. They are troublesome at times, but great to have. I seem to have trouble when migrating folders across drives. Editing lots of shortcuts is not fun. Best if I can have 2x3TB as one drive letter. The mirror is ideal because it is constantly being updated and I have found it difficult to keep my backups up-to-date. Every couple months I can bring the externals home from my brother's...

Long story short, I'm just thinking of triple redundancy with one off-site and automatic/instant mirroring, but I'm not super fond of the idea of striping.

Are your 2x2TB backup? If you have any other ideas, please I'd love to hear them.

Thanks again!


The drives I mentioned are internal, I have external drives to back these up.
With the shortcuts, can't you just short cut to the parent folder rather than all the sub folders or files?

One other thing you could do buy a NAS with raid, then setup a backup schedule so it happens automatically.
Your spending money in this case, but I guess it depends on how worried you are about the data.
Hotway and Thecus make enclosures like this.
They typically use 4 drives in a raid 5 array, so you effectively get disks - 1 worth of storage (6TB with 2TB drives, 9TB with 3TB drives or 12TB with 4TB drives.
Maybe you could use the 3TB drives you already have in the NAS and just buy a couple 4TB drives for the PC.


My apologies for disappearing, bedtime came suddenly.

I considered setting up a NAS, but I also needed a new desktop system with a graphics card. (We've just had laptop powered workstation-type setups for the last few years.) So, I went for an HTPC using a Silverstone GD07 that has room for multiple HDDs, long video cards, etc. The last of the pieces are trickling in this weekend.

As for the shortcuts... this is what happens when someone with 4TB of data quits smoking and channels all their nervous energy into a month of tweaking their filesystem. It really IS a beautiful thing, but mad too... like a mural done in pointillism. Hence, the care in redundancy. I'm now looking to make that larger as well as mirrored.

I've honestly lost sight of the answer to my original question. You said, "Generally you could create one virtual disk with raid 1 and a second virtual disk with JBOD." Did this mean I can RAID1 disks set as JBOD? Or must I choose one or the other?

Our discussion has helped me reframe my question: Essentially, can I RAID1 4 disks into a mirrored pair without striping? Bringing "JBOD" into the question is probably just more confusing. I'm still googling and not finding definitive answers. More often it seems to not be possible save for using Linux software. Other answers seem to veer off into 4 disks in RAID1 = 4 mirrors.

Perhaps I will need to RAID 10 but use a PCI card to guard against mobo crash.

Thanks again. I'll Best Answer your best answer when you're done answering. ;) 

RAID1 is only ever two drives.
The best RAID option for 4 disks is RAID5, which gives you three disks capacity, and you can afford to lose one disk without losing any data.
RAID10 is two disks as a striped raid array (RAID0) and then a mirror of these two disks (RAID1).
Another option would be to create two RAID1 arrays, then use volume spanning in Windows to make them look like one disk.



Thanks!
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!