Advanced Format Drive on Win XP - NO AHCI

JohnBoyCr

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I am running Win XP and have been thinking about installing a WD Velociraptor HDD. The issues I am facing are that my MB Bios does not have AHCI available ( the controller is IHC7 which does not support AHCI). Also, I do not have a Win 7 machine available to format the drive. Is this idea a lost cause? If it is possible, I would need some REALLY GOOD instructions. Most of what I read is pretty darned confusing. By the way, I am not FIXATED on the WD drive. If there is a better HDD solution I would be happy to listen. I intend to have the disk partioned with two bootable partions; one for XP and the other for Linux. I would do a fresh install of XP.
 
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I just discussed this with my son, a Comp Sci major who uses various Windows and Linux versions. He says what you want to do is complex, and really requires extensive advice from someone who has direct experience with exactly your situation:
(a) have Win XP SP2 32-bit on an older 160 GB HDD;
(b) Want to upgrade to a WD Velociraptor 1 TB SATA;
(c) Have an older mobo using Intel ICH7 controller which does not support AHCI;
(d) Want to create and use two Partitions on the new Velociraptor: one bootable clone of the existing Win XP SP2 32-bit, plus one bootable Partition with Linux installed - need to specify what Linux distro;
(e) Could use Acronis True Image WD Edition for cloning, but not necessarily - am flexible.

My son suggests that...

JohnBoyCr

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Thanks popatim ! I will look into that. I assume that since my original drive is only 160mb that the target drive would have to have an identical sized partition in order to properly clone the source drive. Does the acronis software automatically take care of that? I'll do some reading. Thanks.

 

JohnBoyCr

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I downloaded the Acronis user guide. It says that the software has been successfully tested on Win XP Pro SP3. I am running 32 bit SP2. Any ideas as to whether this may be a problem? I know there are some interesting differences between SP2 and SP3 but don't know if they will prevent me from using the software. Hate to buy the drive and then not be able to use it.

Okay. After a whole lot of additional reading, it appears to me that the Acronis software is mainly for data recovers, cloning, etc., not specifically for partitioning and formatting the drive. Maybe I am wrong ! Wouldn't be the first, or last, time.

Which gets me back to the original problem. I read through WD's web page on partitioning large hard drives. Don't know if it applies to the AF drives but I would assume so. Still not sure about ensuring proper align when using 32 bit XP. And I am still somewhat concerned about not having AHCI capability in my BIOS.

If there is anybody out there that has a Win XP x32 SP2 machine, without AHCI, and they have successfully installed an AF drive I would like to hear from them.

Thanks to all.
 

Paperdoc

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Yes, what you want to do can be done, with a few limits. First off, I do NOT run any Linux, so for that part I suggest you examine the info on the WD website. Try this for starters:

https://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5655

You should also be aware that most of these things apply to ALL Advanced Format HDD's not just to WD products.

Getting AHCI to work for you is not necessary to use an Advanced Format HDD, as far as I know. Your IHC7 chipset does not support it, and neither does Win XP directly. To get Win XP to use a AHCI device (even if you had it working via some other HDD controller) would require a brand new clean Install of Win XP including loading the AHCI driver from a floppy diskette. You could NOT simply clone your existing Win XP OS to a larger HDD and then switch it to AHCI without a lot of adjustment.

On the other hand, letting your machine continue to use whatever SATA HDD you install as an IDE device type will continue to work, so why not do that?

Popatim has pointed you to the free utility Acronis True Image WD Edition downloadable from the WD website. It does a LOT of tasks, including Partitioning, Formatting, and Cloning. I encourage you to read the manual file that comes with the software download! Although I'm not familiar with this particular feature, Popatim suggest it can do the job of "aligning" the new Advanced Format drive for use with Win XP. I do know the other alternative that was available earlier from WD was a utility for Win XP users that you downloaded and ran once AFTER making your clone copy to the new HDD. It basically moved everything around on the new HDD to do the alignment process for you. See this if you need more info:

http://www.wdc.com/global/products/features/?id=7&language=1

But, if the newer Acronis does the job for you, even better!

You are NOT stuck with a 160 GB Partition! In my experience, that Acronis software will, by default, offer to make the Destination Drive's new Partition the same size as the Source Drive, but you are not limited to that. You can NOT accept that suggestion and use the menu system to specify the size you want for the new Partition on the Destination unit. So you could easily use that feature to clone your old 160 GB Partition including Win XP to a new Partition of, say, 500 GB, thus giving you a larger space for data storage on your Windows C: drive. After that is done and running, you could use Acronis again to Create a second Partition in the remaining Unallocated Space of, say, 350 GB (or whatever is available) and then install your Linux into that.
 

JohnBoyCr

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Thanks for the update. That makes me feel a little more comfortable. I am still in a bit of a quandary, however, with the statement in the Acronis documents, that indicate that their software has been tested on XP x32 SP3 but not on SP2. Perhaps the best way to go is to find a Win 7 machine, partition the drive on that machine, then install in my XP machine. Hopefully, if I do it that way, I can still clone my XP installation to the new HD. Will that work ?
 

Paperdoc

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I am quite sure that what Acronis means is, it works on ALL versions of Win XP, even up to SP3.

When you make a clone, which is ALL of the source drive's contents, the software must also CREATE the Partition on the Destination Drive. In doing so it places in the Partition Table data on the size of the Partition, its characteristics (Primary Partition, bootable), etc, Formats that Partition, and places files vital to the boot process in the right places. Most cloning software cannot place a clone in an existing Partition. So your plan - to Partition first under Win 7 then clone to that Partition under Win XP - will not work. When you start the cloning process, the best step in that case would be to DELETE the existing Partition and start with an empty drive!
 

JohnBoyCr

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That's good news. I was just reading about the Seagate Barracuda drives with Smartalign technology. Looks like it would be a simpler way to go although there would not be the ability to clone a partition. However, if I was just looking to do a clean install of both XP and Linux then the Seagate might be a bit more simple. Any thoughts on that?

HMMM! Just read a bunch of bad reports on the Barracuda drives, especially those with firmware from Thailand. Might want to stick with WD, if and when I upgrade.

 

JohnBoyCr

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So does the cloning process automatically perform the correct alignment (eg 4K sectors), or is there another tool required? I would then (after cloning) need to create a second partition that I could use for Linux. I think that the later versions of Linux have provisions for setting the alignment during formatting.

If anybody out there has experience doing this (clone XP then install Linux in second partition) I would sure appreciate hearing from them

 

Paperdoc

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I just discussed this with my son, a Comp Sci major who uses various Windows and Linux versions. He says what you want to do is complex, and really requires extensive advice from someone who has direct experience with exactly your situation:
(a) have Win XP SP2 32-bit on an older 160 GB HDD;
(b) Want to upgrade to a WD Velociraptor 1 TB SATA;
(c) Have an older mobo using Intel ICH7 controller which does not support AHCI;
(d) Want to create and use two Partitions on the new Velociraptor: one bootable clone of the existing Win XP SP2 32-bit, plus one bootable Partition with Linux installed - need to specify what Linux distro;
(e) Could use Acronis True Image WD Edition for cloning, but not necessarily - am flexible.

My son suggests that this is not a question of 2 or 3 staightforward steps. It is more like you need a specific list of 25 (plus or minus, that's an arbitrary number) things to do in the correct sequence.
He suggest you Google for answers and info on your needs, and hope to find someone with exact experience. I realize that's what you had hoped to find here, but I'm not it, and I'm not sure any of the other posters have such precisely-defined experience, either.
 
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JohnBoyCr

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Thanks for the feedback. The more I read the more I tend to agree with your sons assessment. Probably be a lot easier to just get two hard drives, one for XP and the other for Linux. There is a lot of info available on how to use fdisk to properly align the AF drive for Linux.

 

Paperdoc

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I agree. Separate bootable drives for different OS's makes a lot of sense. That eliminates any problems of two OS's trying to use a common Partition Table. The BIOS can help you choose a boot drive at each boot occasion, and it is not necessary for each OS to have access to the contents of the "other" drive. In fact, it MAY be wise not to set up such cross-system access.
 

JohnBoyCr

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I am at this time running XP and Debian Linux. I have the Linux installed on an external USB drive (slow, but boots almost as fast as XP). I have the GUB boot loader on the USB drive which is selected in BIOS as the first boot device. That way I can select which system to load without having to go into the BIOS. Much cleaner.

I know that with either a WD Velociraptor or a Seagate Barracuda I can set up the Win XP pretty easily by just cloning my current drive. With the WD drive I would then run an alignment program and all would be okay. With Linux, things get a bit more complicated because of needing to format the drive with the proper alignment and then doing an install. It may be the the Debian Live installer will take care of everything but need to get that confirmed with the Debian Forum. It would be nice if I could clone my current Linux system but don't think the WD or Seagate software support that. I know that I can do a complete copy of the exising disk, then install the boot loader on the new disk and set the new disk as the active system. Still a lot of research before I take the plunge.

Thanks for all your help on this issue. Any further comments are appreciated. If nothing new in a few days I will close this thread.

 

JohnBoyCr

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Just wanted to update all those that had responded to this post. I received the two 500GB Velociraptor drives
and have successfully cloned Win XP to one of those drives using HDClone from Miray. Worked great although the first clone attempt did not work (I forgot to align the drive. DOH !). I used the FREE version and the clone time for a 160GB drive was a little under 1.5 hours. The Linux install on the other drive went off without a hitch (after I downloaded the latest Debian release). The XP drive is about three times faster than the original Seagate drive. Read/Write speeds of about 180MB/s. I am a HAPPY CAMPER . Thanks to all!