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best system for 3D Modeling / Rendering (3ds max + sketchup) with 2000 $ help me plz???

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December 22, 2013 11:48:51 PM

hi
i have 2000 $ for best system for 3D Modeling / Rendering (3ds max + sketchup)

CPU : Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core $568.98
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid $89.99
Motherboard: Asus Sabertooth X79 ATX LGA2011 $314.99
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 $164.99
ssd Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" SSD $132.99
hdd: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM $84.48
Video Card Asus GeForce GTX 760 2GB $249.99
Power Supply Corsair 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V $184.99

Total: $1791.40

is this best system for architectural 3d rendering??? plz help me???
Please specify the best parts ؟؟؟
December 22, 2013 11:55:56 PM

for professional applications like cad or 3d modeling you would be best served by a quadro video card.
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December 23, 2013 12:01:30 AM

I'd be interested to hear what the rendering experts here think, but that is a very expensive cpu and mobo.
What happens if you go with a 8350 AMD 8 core and Sabertooth board, using the large difference in price for more video card, perhaps one with 4 GB of vram, a bigger ssd, and more system ram? While coming in under your budget?

Or is a workstation type solution with dual Xeons better for that application? Although that would probably blow over your budget pretty quickly.
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December 23, 2013 12:01:56 AM

ssddx said:
for professional applications like cad or 3d modeling you would be best served by a quadro video card.


for rendering we need best cpu and memory ??? quadro video is for gaming pc???

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December 23, 2013 12:06:35 AM

exroofer said:
I'd be interested to hear what the rendering experts here think, but that is a very expensive cpu and mobo.
What happens if you go with a 8350 AMD 8 core and Sabertooth board, using the large difference in price for more video card, perhaps one with 4 GB of vram, a bigger ssd, and more system ram? While coming in under your budget?

Or is a workstation type solution with dual Xeons better for that application? Although that would probably blow over your budget pretty quickly.


maximum money is 2000 $, under 2000$ i need make system for rendering

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December 23, 2013 12:07:04 AM

Quadro cards are for commercial applications such as you are describing. Not especially good as gaming cards, especially considering what they cost.
Which is I wondered if saving on cpu/mobo would let you move up to a commercial card while staying on budget.
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December 23, 2013 12:09:15 AM

No it is not.
Lose the Corsair H100.
Get cheaper mobo.
Get 4x8GB memory.
Bigger SSD 256GB ,3TB HDD
Smaller PSU.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($568.98 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($65.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($224.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($68.00 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($68.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($249.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.98 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1724.86
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-23 02:59 EST-0500)

With more memory it looks like this.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($568.98 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($65.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($224.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($126.98 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($126.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($249.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.98 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $2001.82
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-23 03:06 EST-0500)

And if +1000w psu is must have. Then take this. Lot better than corsair :) 
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/rosewill-power-supply-ligh...


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December 23, 2013 12:09:29 AM

Exroofer, the FX would be much better value for sure, but the intel 6 core is definitely the ideal part for that job.

There is definitely room for improvement. Liquid cooling is not needed and could be better spend on the workstation GPU ssddx suggested.
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December 23, 2013 12:10:43 AM

All very good suggestions axiphone.
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December 23, 2013 12:14:33 AM

Why is the rosewill lightning better than the corsair? Yes, it's superflower, but I don't see that as much of a change, good or bad.
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December 23, 2013 12:15:22 AM

i'm a cad 3d modeler by trade as well as being up on tech so i have a good handle on what requirements would be.

honestly while the cpu picked out would run wonderfully, there really isnt a reason to go that route. it just is not cost effective.

it would be better to go with an i7-4770k, 16gb ram (2x8), z87 motherboard, 250gb samsung 840, a storage hdd, 650 or 750w seasonic psu, a good high airflow case and a high end quadro graphics card.

----------------

@op

quadro/tesla is a professional graphics card. not for gaming, it is for rendering (which is exactly what you need).

gpu render is far far far superior to cpu rendering.
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December 23, 2013 12:15:51 AM

Thanks Falcon. Rendering/3d workstations aren't my thing, so I chimed in on the thread to hopefully learn something.
Various Quadro cards I have seen on Newegg were VERY expensive, which is why I wondered if going AMD would let him get it on his budget,
and what type of performance difference one would see with hi end Intel cpu and cheaper video card versus 8350 plus big dollar card would make.
A few threads on this topic I have read make me think top shelf rendering machines cost a wee bit more than $2000....:) 
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December 23, 2013 12:16:52 AM

the builds up above arent ideal at all.
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December 23, 2013 12:24:02 AM

This is what you do ssddx. Give us your input. Your going to know the little tricks of the trade we wouldn't. What does he need? What doesn't he need?
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December 23, 2013 12:26:16 AM

AxlFone said:
No it is not.
Lose the Corsair H100.
Get cheaper mobo.
Get 4x8GB memory.
Bigger SSD 256GB ,3TB HDD
Smaller PSU.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($568.98 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($65.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($224.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($68.00 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($68.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($249.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.98 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1724.86
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-23 02:59 EST-0500)

With more memory it looks like this.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($568.98 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($65.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($224.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($126.98 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($126.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($249.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.98 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $2001.82
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-23 03:06 EST-0500)

And if +1000w psu is must have. Then take this. Lot better than corsair :) 
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/rosewill-power-supply-ligh...




wow thx but.??

asus sabertooth is best motherboard or gigabyte?
gskill is best memory ram or corsair?
I want to upgrade the system in the future
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December 23, 2013 12:26:33 AM

exroofer said:

A few threads on this topic I have read make me think top shelf rendering machines cost a wee bit more than $2000....:) 


Top shelf ones would. But you don't always need top shelf.
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December 23, 2013 12:35:53 AM

Quote:
wow thx but.??

asus sabertooth is best motherboard or gigabyte?
gskill is best memory ram or corsair?
I want to upgrade the system in the future

There is no performance difrence between sabertooth or gigabyte mobo.
G.skill is better (more reliable) than corsair.
For the PSU rosewill is maybe best reliable PSU in the world right now.
Best upgrade for this build is get GTX 780 or 780 Ti
Two SSD in RAID 0 is much faster than one.
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/5896/sandisk-ultra-pl...

Edit. And about quattro and tesla video cards. Man they are really joke if you look performance boost that GTX 760 gives you.


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December 23, 2013 12:42:31 AM

well to be honest a "workstation" build is what will perform best.

the big deal about quadro and other professional cards (like firepro) is accuracy. they are far far more accurate than gtx (consumer grade cards). this leads to better performance for rendering since they do not need to recompute (re-process for artifacts). this is important for 3d but not really as important for games if a few slip by.

keep in mind that this is a benchmark i found for maya rather quickly.. (not for 3dsmax). however since new versions of 3dsmax use gpu for rendering results can be similar.


essentially this means faster rendering times. all major corporations which deal in mainly 3d rendering use such cards. while gtx cards "can" do 3d they arent very optimized for the programs so take longer.

16gb of ram might be enough but its always worthwhile to upgrade to 32. 1866mhz is likely fine. no need to go higher unless its on sale for cheap.

i definitely agree with using a ssd for the operating system for speed however you will want several hard drives (perhaps in raid 5) for both large amounts of space and for backup in case of failure. or as an alternative you can back up to a nas device daily (but if the pc drive fails you lose data for the day!). i'd go with a 250gb ssd from samsung for a boot. no need for more its just for boot, programs, and a few odds and ends. you could store working files on it however with the cost per gb of ssd its not very cost efficient to do so. i personally use one large 512 and a backup 1tb but thats just how i like to do things (and with his budget i wouldnt do that).

as far as cases .... any large high airflow case works fine. preferably with 120 or 140mm fans in configs which would allow for add ons like a 2x140 cooler if he wants to oc.
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December 23, 2013 12:44:00 AM

i will look for some quadro/firepro results from 3dsmax now.. they can be harder to find

edit:

honestly it all depends on the program and the type of rendering. if something like openCL pro cards win hands down. in other things... sometimes not. it all depends on the way you are rendering
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December 23, 2013 12:48:35 AM

AxlFone said:


For the PSU rosewill is maybe best reliable PSU in the world right now.


I wouldn't go anywhere near that far. I like superflower as well as anybody. But they are not any better than the other top tier PSU manufacturers.

And even if they were, not all rosewill's are Superflower. They still have a number of ATNG, Sirtec, and Solytech units floating around their line too. Serviceable units, but not top tier quality.
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December 23, 2013 12:52:34 AM

Well opinion is what we all have.



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December 23, 2013 12:55:19 AM

some tests

cards


3ds


sketchup
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December 23, 2013 12:55:19 AM

ssddx said:
well to be honest a "workstation" build is what will perform best.

the big deal about quadro and other professional cards (like firepro) is accuracy. they are far far more accurate than gtx (consumer grade cards). this leads to better performance for rendering since they do not need to recompute (re-process for artifacts). this is important for 3d but not really as important for games if a few slip by.

keep in mind that this is a benchmark i found for maya rather quickly.. (not for 3dsmax). however since new versions of 3dsmax use gpu for rendering results can be similar.


essentially this means faster rendering times. all major corporations which deal in mainly 3d rendering use such cards. while gtx cards "can" do 3d they arent very optimized for the programs so take longer.

16gb of ram might be enough but its always worthwhile to upgrade to 32. 1866mhz is likely fine. no need to go higher unless its on sale for cheap.

i definitely agree with using a ssd for the operating system for speed however you will want several hard drives (perhaps in raid 5) for both large amounts of space and for backup in case of failure. or as an alternative you can back up to a nas device daily (but if the pc drive fails you lose data for the day!). i'd go with a 250gb ssd from samsung for a boot. no need for more its just for boot, programs, and a few odds and ends. you could store working files on it however with the cost per gb of ssd its not very cost efficient to do so. i personally use one large 512 and a backup 1tb but thats just how i like to do things (and with his budget i wouldnt do that).

as far as cases .... any large high airflow case works fine. preferably with 120 or 140mm fans in configs which would allow for add ons like a 2x140 cooler if he wants to oc.



Thanks dear for information.

Can you suggest me a system according to the below site :
http://pcpartpicker.com/

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December 23, 2013 12:57:38 AM

@axl
it would help to use benchmarks from actual 3d rendering applications...
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December 23, 2013 1:05:10 AM

Quote:
Consumer Cards vs Professional Series Cards

As the results indicate, in many cases there is not a large difference between the consumer series cards and the professionals cards and at times the consumer cards even outperform. To ensure this is a balanced review and provides information required to make an informed decision, I've outlined some of the differences and benefits of the more expensive professional cards. I'll leave it up to you, the reader, to decide how important those items are for your pipeline.
NVIDIA

The following information was provided unedited from NVIDIA.

Why Choose the Quadro Workstation Board Over NVIDIA GeForce?

Today’s high performance consumer graphics boards while possessing extremely powerful graphics performance, are primarily designed for gaming performance, whereas professional visual imaging and 3D applications have more intricate needs that require additional features and a different balance in some aspects of the graphics boards features.
NVIDIA Quadro solutions offer features that provide additional functionality required by professional creative professionals:

• Accelerated Video Playback using the Adobe Mercury Playback Engine: The new Mercury Playback Engine in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 give video professionals the ability to work with complex HD timelines in real-time without having to generate preview renders to see their final output. NVIDIA Quadro graphics are the recommended solution by Adobe for video professionals. (Supported on Quadro FX 3800, FX 4800 and FX 5800).

• Support for Professional SDI Output: Quadro FX also provides support for professional video output via SDI for film and video post-production and broadcast graphics. The FX3800/4800/5800 support 2 channels of SD or HD-SDI output.

• Application testing and certification: All NVIDIA Quadro FX graphics boards are consistently tested and certified with dozens of leading professional applications, providing guaranteed compatibility, stability, and optimization with the key professional applications in MCAD, DCC, oil and gas, and scientific visualization markets.

• Custom application drivers and utilities: NVIDIA Quadro FX boards offer enhancements vital to graphics professionals, including the 3ds Max Performance Driver for Autodesk 3ds Max and the accelerated AutoCAD Performance Driver for AutoCAD users.

• Support commitment of three years: NVIDIA provides support and driver updates for all NVIDIA Quadro graphics boards for three years from the date of introduction.

• Planned availability of boards for 18 months: With NVIDIA GeForce and other consumer cards, there is no guarantee how long the card will be available, but NVIDIA Quadro boards typically have an availability of 18 months, providing a more stable IT platform across your enterprise.

• Enhanced driver configuration: Designed to support the more varied needs of professional applications, Quadro drivers let users adjust settings for texture memory size, buffer flipping mode, anti-aliasing line gamma, texture color depth, stereoscopic display settings and overlay control–all of which are unavailable on NVIDIA GeForce cards. This allows users to customize DirectX and OpenGL settings that are important for professional 3D, Professional Imaging and Visualization applications.

• Support for G-Sync: The Quadro FX 5800, FX 4800 and FX3800 can utilize and optional G-Sync board to provide advanced multi-system visualization and multi-device film and video environments. The Quadro G-Sync supports frame lock, swap sync, stereo sync, and house sync.

• Support for SDI: The Quadro FX 5800, FX 4800 and FX3800 also provide support for professional video output via SDI for film and video post-production and broadcast graphics. The boards support 2 channels of SD or HD-SDI output, and digital and analog genlock.

OpenGL feature hardware acceleration and support:

• Hardware overlay planes: Enhances performance of 3D graphics when obscured by the cursor, pop-up menus, and other visual enhancements.

• Hardware antialiased lines: Vastly improves the display of 2D and 3D wireframe views in design and visualization software, at a higher performance level than on GeForce, and without taking extra video memory for oversampling.

• Two-sided lighting: Renders the front and back sides of triangles to ensure visibility of surface meshes and cutaway views, no matter the viewpoint.

• Windowed OpenGL quad-buffered stereo: Unavailable on GeForce cards, quad-buffered stereo gives designers a real-life perspective on their models while maintaining full double-buffering for the left and right views.

• Hardware-accelerated clip regions: Designed to handle the many windows and dialog boxes that can impinge upon the 3D graphics window, NVIDIA Quadro FX boards include up to eight clip regions, as opposed to the single clip region offered on GeForce cards.

ATI

ATI FirePro products are optimized and certified for many CAD and DCC applications.
ATI FirePro offers dedicated driver support via regular Catalyst software updates that are based on certified proven testing with leading professional graphics applications.
AMD offers direct customer access to a dedicated professional class technical support team.


Quote:
3ds Max
Looking at the overall rank of all tests averaged, the Quadro FX3800 offers the best all around performance in both 3ds Max 2010 and 2011. Looking more closely at the viewport modes however shows that there is very little difference between any cards regardless of manufacturer or model. Unfourtunately due to the underlying architecture of 3ds Max, the graphics pipeline is bound heavily by the CPU which prevents it from taking full advantage of the GPU. Hopefully future versions of the software will address this. The Quadro performance drivers give a slight edge over the ATI cards and GeForce cards in wireframe mode, but in most cases the differences are quite small in our tests, and generally in the range of 5-10 frames per second more. In Hidden line Smooth & Highlights mode, the results were for the most part very close to each other. Based on its ability to outperform on the Tunnel test, my recommendation would be for the GeForce GTX480 card.


SketchUp
In SketchUp the highest overall ranking card is the GeForce GTX285, however if you look at the frames per second for the various tests, every card performed almost identically. It's clear that SketchUp does not in any way take full advantage of the capabilities of any display card. As you are likely using other 3d applications or CAD software, I would base my selection on one of those performance metrics instead as SketchUp will not be affected by your selection.


basically this.

in applications designed to run on such cards the results can be quite staggering. in applications where raw power is needed the results arent too much.

the price of professional cards however is out of this world. i think the best thing to do is to make a barebones i7 build and then try seeing what kind of quadro or firepro will fit in budget. then check benchmarks to see how worthwhile the upgrade is. then make a decision to see if its worthwhile or not.
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December 23, 2013 1:07:57 AM

@falcon

thanks for the shout out earlier.

@all

i posted relevant benchmarks & differences as well as my thoughts... i think you guys can help come up with a solid build using that information from here.

i'm getting off for now.

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December 23, 2013 12:11:35 PM

when i select G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 this error show:

Potential Issues/Incompatibilities

Some Intel X79 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Ivy Bridge-E CPUs

G.Skill Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory operating voltage of 1.65V exceeds the Intel Ivy Bridge-E CPU recommended maximum of 1.5V+5% (1.575V). This memory module may run at a reduced clock rate to meet the 1.5V voltage recommendation, or may require running at a voltage greater than the Intel recommended maximum.

plz help me how to solve it? i love use G.Skill Trident, is there anyway to use is with asus x79 delux and cpu 4930 ???
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December 24, 2013 2:02:09 AM

1.% -1.65V memory both works fine with any intel system. Only thing you need to do is go bios and put memory V to 1.65 and it works fine. Latest bios is needed to use new 4930k cpu.
I have 3930k and latest bios on gigabyte mobo and it works fine.
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April 1, 2014 5:15:16 PM

ssddx said:
@falcon

thanks for the shout out earlier.

@all

i posted relevant benchmarks & differences as well as my thoughts... i think you guys can help come up with a solid build using that information from here.

i'm getting off for now.



ssddx - you mistake the viewport acceleration for actual rendering job. I found the source of the overall graphics score you are quoting and watched the movie of what was tested. It only shows on screen viewport spinning in all the tests. No rendering performed.
I found it here: http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AutoDesk-Maya... so everyone can check for themselves.
Most rendering engines do not care about quadro or not - just pure hardware. Go and check V-ray help about their GPU rendering acceleration.
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April 13, 2014 3:12:53 AM

While I am no expert on parts, some scouting on various Sketchup forums shows that clock rate is way more important for 3d modelling than no of cores as many 3d modellers are single-threaded (one core only). Go for something with fewer cores and a high clock rate.
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