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Why is gaming performance worse with my FX-8320 than my old i3 2100?

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December 29, 2013 2:44:44 AM

Hi

I am a bit confused as to why my new system is worse in gaming than my old system, specs are below:

Latest System:
AMD FX-8320,
MSI 7850 1gb OC,
8gb DDR3 1333,
60gb SSD,
1tb hdd,
Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 Motherboard.

Old System:
Intel i3-2100,
AMD HD 6770 1gb,
8gb DDR3 1333,
60gb SSD,
1tb hdd,
Cheap Foxconn motherboard.

I built the latest PC believing I was going to start doing more video and 3d rendering but I really haven't and the rendering times haven't been much better :( 

i have noticed the latest system is slower to start up than the old system and when basic multi tasking it is slower to react.

But in games i have noticed generally the FPS has been lower on the new PC even though it has a more powerful CPU and GPU! although it is more stable, so frame rates don't jump up and down as much but the frame rates tend to be lower. e.g. latest system will hover around 60fps on say skyrim where as my old system would be between 30 and 90 on skyrim.

why is the performance more stable but lower?

would it be worth swapping 8320 for something like an i5 for more gaming performance?

the 8320 is better with online games, i guess this is because of the more cores, would and i5 be better though?

I'm likely to change my current case and mother board early next year for a Mini ITX Case to save space and the motherboard is far better than i really need as i don't have multiple graphic cards, so should i change the cpu for an Intel Core i5 3470?

sorry for the really long post!

Thanks

More about : gaming performance worse 8320 2100

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December 29, 2013 3:21:20 AM

open task manager and click performance tab, do you see 8 cpu graphs?
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December 29, 2013 3:35:35 AM

See AMD has multiple cores with are weaker... While intel has fewer cores which are stronger...AMD FX CPUs do good when overclocked and are good in multi-threaded tasks... But in multi-tasking Intel wins... In gaming also, in older games Intel gives more FPS while AMD does not... In newer games like BF4, AMD and Intel performs same as BF4 uses multiple core which is provided by AMD and due to Intel's solid cores are also good...

You can get Intel Core i5 3470 for better gaming but I suggest you to overclock the AMD FX 8320 for better performance... AMD FX processors do good when they are overclocked... So I think you should first overclock your CPU then try gaming and if gives you good gaming performance(as per you) then you do not need to buy i5 3470...

One thing, which cooler are you having for CPU? Is it the stock one? If yes then change it to a aftermarket cooler... I recommend Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo... And then only you do overclocking...
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December 29, 2013 3:45:59 AM

thats a good thought, and check the temperatures as well
any BSOD?
is it a fresh Windows on it?
newest drivers, bios, and so on?
what is the GPU and cPU usage on games?
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December 29, 2013 3:51:13 AM

That build should be faster.
Make sure you have all the latest drivers installed and that you did a fresh install of windows.

As for Skyrim it can't use the 8 cores on that CPU and tends to run faster on fast dual cores.
It is also highly optimized for intel.
Most games should run very well on that system:) 
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December 29, 2013 5:25:10 AM

jay2577 said:
That build should be faster.
Make sure you have all the latest drivers installed and that you did a fresh install of windows.

As for Skyrim it can't use the 8 cores on that CPU and tends to run faster on fast dual cores.
It is also highly optimized for intel.
Most games should run very well on that system:) 


+1

Personally I'd be happier with a stable 60 than 30-90 though OP...

If you wish to swap to an i5 you'll need a new motherboard and probably a new copy of windows too if yours is OEM. So no, I wouldn't say it's worth it. Skyrim in particular, as jay said, performs much better on intel. I believe there are some tweaks you can do to get skyrim to use more cores, but I've completely forgotten. Also, overclock that 8320 I wasn't happy with mine at stock (only turbo'd to 3.7) so I OC'd to 4.2 and was happy. I'm at my limit on my board with 4.4 though. If you don't know how to overclock: http://www.overclock.net/t/1348623/amd-bulldozer-and-pi... . And only do it if you have a decent aftermarket cooler, I'd avoid it altogether if you have a stock one.
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December 29, 2013 12:05:41 PM

deadlyghost said:
See AMD has multiple cores with are weaker... While intel has fewer cores which are stronger...AMD FX CPUs do good when overclocked and are good in multi-threaded tasks... But in multi-tasking Intel wins... In gaming also, in older games Intel gives more FPS while AMD does not... In newer games like BF4, AMD and Intel performs same as BF4 uses multiple core which is provided by AMD and due to Intel's solid cores are also good...

You can get Intel Core i5 3470 for better gaming but I suggest you to overclock the AMD FX 8320 for better performance... AMD FX processors do good when they are overclocked... So I think you should first overclock your CPU then try gaming and if gives you good gaming performance(as per you) then you do not need to buy i5 3470...

One thing, which cooler are you having for CPU? Is it the stock one? If yes then change it to a aftermarket cooler... I recommend Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo... And then only you do overclocking...


Hi

Yeah I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, so overclocking is possible! Maybe the reason I feel the PC isn't as fast I expected is that because I thought moving from 2 cores to 8 was going to be a massive difference in performance, but most programs still run from 2 cores!

I am thinking of changing my case at the moment to a Mini ITX case to save space, this would mean i would need to down grade my mother board, so I thought selling my CPU and Motherboard would pay for a new i5 and mini/micro motherboard which could also lead to me getting better performance!
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December 29, 2013 8:45:28 PM

Okay if you still want to get an i5 you can get... But If I were you I would stay with 8320 overclocked... Programs which appears to be giving low performance in AMD FX can give better performance if the CPU is overclocked...But it is your decision... You can go with a i5...

**My suggestion- I prefer ATX motherboards much from the micro/mini motherboards...**
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December 30, 2013 1:37:22 AM

deadlyghost said:
Okay if you still want to get an i5 you can get... But If I were you I would stay with 8320 overclocked... Programs which appears to be giving low performance in AMD FX can give better performance if the CPU is overclocked...But it is your decision... You can go with a i5...

**My suggestion- I prefer ATX motherboards much from the micro/mini motherboards...**


Hi

Thanks for your response, your probably right in the fact I should just overclock, I will start reading up on overclocking and give it a go sometime soon.
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December 30, 2013 1:50:01 AM

Is really everything set up fine? At least in rendering ypu should See at least double performance
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December 30, 2013 1:58:07 AM

All things the same, the i3-2100 should be absolute destroyed by the 8320.

The 8320 has 3x's higher passmark score, 2x's higher cinebench, 2x's higher geekbench, faster cpu, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE CACHE, overclock capability smokes it, literally every spec is significantly higher then any i3, much less the 2100 (except for the intel fanboi cry of "single core performance").

You should see appreciable gains on everything you're doing in an x86 environment. If you're not, something is most likely not proper.
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December 30, 2013 2:10:09 AM

bouncedk said:
Skyrim is an old game, so it'll only use 2 cores. That's probably why you're seeing lower fps. AMD has made the perfect gaming chip, but games are seriously slow to catch up and still using horribly optimized code. The majority of them don't even use 64bit, that's how slow they are to adapt.

Go play some newer games that will properly utilize the processor and watch it stomp all over the i3 without breaking a sweat :) 


No way man, compare his entire rig to the old rig. Theres no way in hell he's getting lower fps unless something is wrong.
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December 30, 2013 2:10:22 AM

Yes I agree with bouncedk... AMD FX processors do good in new games and do okay in older games as the older games demand less cores... The INTEL gives more performance in older games and AMD is near to equal performance with Intel in newer games...

See overclocking your CPU if it helps regain more performance... It should definitely do that... :) 
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December 30, 2013 2:15:03 AM

deadlyghost said:
Yes I agree with bouncedk... AMD FX processors do good in new games and do okay in older games as the older games demand less cores... The INTEL gives more performance in older games and AMD is near to equal performance with Intel in newer games...

See overclocking your CPU if it helps regain more performance... It should definitely do that... :) 


He went from a 6770 to a 7850... thats HUGE. That card is SIGNIFICANTLY better then the 6770, theres no way the 8320 is throttling back "worse' performance on a 7850, even in stock settings. The single core speed isn't THAT much slower. No matter how good the intel, that 6770 should have been limiting fps.

bouncedk said:


I know next to nothing about intel cpu's because I honestly don't care about them much :) 


I was speaking purely of his GPU upgrade, its MASSIVE.
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December 30, 2013 2:21:14 AM

I just went over tech data, in single threaded applications the i3 2100 and 8320 (not overclocked) are the same. So with that upgrade, he should have MUCH better fps on skyrim
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December 30, 2013 3:13:09 AM

See, FX processors do up to the mark if they are overclocked... At stock settings they give less performance then they should give... Yes he has a good GPU but still he would feel bottlenecked somewhat with his performance due to stock FX processor... But he would find very good performance if he had overclocked his FX processor... In multi-threaded tasks AMD is better and in single and some multi-threaded tasks Intel is better...
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December 30, 2013 3:43:01 AM

Stick an aftermarket cooler on it, clock it at 4Ghz and then see what performance you get.
Personally i played skyrim and completed it on an AMD system and never had any performance problems:D 
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December 30, 2013 4:01:38 AM

jay2577 said:
Stick an aftermarket cooler on it, clock it at 4Ghz and then see what performance you get.
Personally i played skyrim and completed it on an AMD system and never had any performance problems:D 


Correct... Overclocking fx processors give exact performance it should be giving... And that performance is good...
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December 30, 2013 4:06:42 AM

One question: doesnt skyrim force the fps to stay at 60? I think you need to tweak it to get higher
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December 30, 2013 4:14:43 AM

If you have Vsysnc on it does.

guggi4 said:
One question: doesnt skyrim force the fps to stay at 60? I think you need to tweak it to get higher


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December 30, 2013 5:15:19 AM

bouncedk said:
Well an old Pentium 4 has better ipc than an AMD FX hence the performance increase in low threaded games. I'm sure Skyrim with it's awful Gamebryo engine doesn't care much for L3 and all that good stuff.


nu wtf pentium 8086 iz wey fastr dan ef ex 8350

*Cough*

I'll mention that Intel's compiler will butcher any non-intel CPU's performance. The 8350, when in use with a program made with intel's compiler, will not even touch an i3 2100.

Conversely, in a program compiled with GCC, an 8150 will trade blows with intel's best i7; nevermind the 8350.
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December 30, 2013 5:52:10 AM

guggi4 said:
Is really everything set up fine? At least in rendering ypu should See at least double performance


In rendering its fine just while gaming it seems less powerful than my previous system
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December 30, 2013 5:59:06 AM

jay2577 said:
If you have Vsysnc on it does.

guggi4 said:
One question: doesnt skyrim force the fps to stay at 60? I think you need to tweak it to get higher




I have just noticed I have been an absolute retard, I'm playing on ultra when I used to play on med-high, thats why the fps is more stable at a solid 60fps.
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December 30, 2013 6:01:11 AM

haha fine that you found the "problem" :) . as soon as you play a game like bf4 or crysis 3, the fx8320 will really start to shine :) 
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December 30, 2013 6:02:20 AM

deadlyghost said:
jay2577 said:
Stick an aftermarket cooler on it, clock it at 4Ghz and then see what performance you get.
Personally i played skyrim and completed it on an AMD system and never had any performance problems:D 


Correct... Overclocking fx processors give exact performance it should be giving... And that performance is good...


What should I be able to overclock my 8320 to so it is stable and doesn't increase much in heat? Will overclocking help increase my FPS and rendering times?
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December 30, 2013 6:04:24 AM

sure it will help, since you got a quality motherboard and a decent cooler, 4,2-4,4 ghz should be possible.

just found this, you cant disable vsync in skyrim ingame, so you are stuck at 60fps, this should help:
Quote:
Disable Vsync
Access the SkyrimPrefs.ini again and add iPresentInterval=0 to the bottom of the [Display] section.
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December 30, 2013 6:18:52 AM

I run mine @ 4Ghz on stock volts:D 
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December 30, 2013 6:32:50 AM

jay2577 said:
I run mine @ 4Ghz on stock volts:D 


what sort of temp?
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December 30, 2013 7:04:55 AM

guggi4 said:
sure it will help, since you got a quality motherboard and a decent cooler, 4,2-4,4 ghz should be possible.

just found this, you cant disable vsync in skyrim ingame, so you are stuck at 60fps, this should help:
Quote:
Disable Vsync
Access the SkyrimPrefs.ini again and add iPresentInterval=0 to the bottom of the [Display] section.


just tested my current pc on heaven benchmark 4.0 and it got:

FPS 15.0
Score 378
min fps 7.0
max fps 70.3

settings-
render: direct d11
mode: 1600x900 2xAA windowed
quality medium
tessellation disabled

I have seen people with similar pc getting a score over a 1000, any ideas why mine is so low?
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December 30, 2013 7:12:01 AM

I use the Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 and gaming i hit about 47 degrees. I do have case fans running through a fan controller slowing the fans down to a non audible level.



mjwhelan said:
jay2577 said:
I run mine @ 4Ghz on stock volts:D 


what sort of temp?


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December 30, 2013 7:29:00 AM

jay2577 said:
I use the Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 and gaming i hit about 47 degrees. I do have case fans running through a fan controller slowing the fans down to a non audible level.



mjwhelan said:
jay2577 said:
I run mine @ 4Ghz on stock volts:D 


what sort of temp?




so could i go into bio change the cpu bus speed to around 200 giving me 4ghz? without changing anything else or is it not that simple?
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December 30, 2013 7:57:23 AM

Oh it's really simple on today's unlocked CPU's:) 
Go into the bios and switch off turbo core, then just change the multiplier so you have 4Ghz:D 
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December 30, 2013 8:23:40 AM

jay2577 said:
Oh it's really simple on today's unlocked CPU's:) 
Go into the bios and switch off turbo core, then just change the multiplier so you have 4Ghz:D 


it sounds easy enough even for me :) 

how stable is it for you? how many test and what tests have you done?

Thanks
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December 30, 2013 8:32:23 AM

It is very stable. I have never tested it as i have had no need.
I have had it running at 4Ghz for months with no issue and have encoded hours of video using all 8 cores at 100%. It has never crashed on me once.
I have also played Assassins Creed 4, Battlefield 4, Batman Arkham Origins, Saints Row 4, Bioshock Infinite, Skyrim and Tomb Raider on it.
I don't know if i am just lucky or not but i have never had one crash playing Battlefield 4. So many people have:) 
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December 30, 2013 10:27:14 AM

jay2577 said:
It is very stable. I have never tested it as i have had no need.
I have had it running at 4Ghz for months with no issue and have encoded hours of video using all 8 cores at 100%. It has never crashed on me once.
I have also played Assassins Creed 4, Battlefield 4, Batman Arkham Origins, Saints Row 4, Bioshock Infinite, Skyrim and Tomb Raider on it.
I don't know if i am just lucky or not but i have never had one crash playing Battlefield 4. So many people have:) 


I think everyone has convinced me to stay with my FX-8320 then! If I can easily get 4Ghz without doing anything technical that's an absolute win.

jay2577 did you follow any particular guides or tutorials? or did you just go straigh into the bios and changes just the CPU bus speed?

Sorry for all the questions I have never overclocked or anything before!

Thanks
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December 30, 2013 10:36:03 AM

To get 4ghz all you have to do is go into the advanced settings in BIOS, turn off turbo core, and bump up the multiplier until your "target CPU speed" is 4000MHz. If you wish to go further this might help: http://www.overclock.net/t/1348623/amd-bulldozer-and-pi...
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December 30, 2013 10:45:34 AM

I didn't change the bus speed.
I turned of the turbo core feature and changed the multiplier in the bios from 17.5 to 20:) 
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December 30, 2013 11:09:35 AM

Thanks guys you've been super useful, I am about to give the overclocking a go! Thanks Again

JOOK-D said:
To get 4ghz all you have to do is go into the advanced settings in BIOS, turn off turbo core, and bump up the multiplier until your "target CPU speed" is 4000MHz. If you wish to go further this might help: http://www.overclock.net/t/1348623/amd-bulldozer-and-pi...




jay2577 said:
I didn't change the bus speed.
I turned of the turbo core feature and changed the multiplier in the bios from 17.5 to 20:) 


Cool I will do the same, How much difference in actually performance should I notice? e.g. in game or rendering?
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December 30, 2013 11:58:40 AM

It depends on what you are doing. Some games like Battlefield 4 show no performance increase at 4Ghz because it could already use all 8 cores of my CPU at 3.5Ghz. Video encoding is faster though.
Games which only use 2 - 4 cores will show quite a performance increase.
There is also another trick however but i don't bother using it. An 8 core piledriver processor has 4 modules, each with 2 cores in. Now those 2 cores share some resources but you can disable one core per module so you have a powerful quad core processor.
I did try it once for a quad core game and it did make it a faster but not enough to make it worth my while.
I found running it at 4Ghz suits me and my needs.
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December 30, 2013 12:09:13 PM

jay2577 said:
It depends on what you are doing. Some games like Battlefield 4 show no performance increase at 4Ghz because it could already use all 8 cores of my CPU at 3.5Ghz. Video encoding is faster though.
Games which only use 2 - 4 cores will show quite a performance increase.
There is also another trick however but i don't bother using it. An 8 core piledriver processor has 4 modules, each with 2 cores in. Now those 2 cores share some resources but you can disable one core per module so you have a powerful quad core processor.
I did try it once for a quad core game and it did make it a faster but not enough to make it worth my while.
I found running it at 4Ghz suits me and my needs.


really confused just went into bios, and its says my cpu is running at 3.8 not 3.5, I haven't touched anything in bios before and dont understand why its different to what the cpu's box says!

I looked in advanced and it shows the bus speed at 216 not the usual 200!

also i thought the voltage at standard is supposed to be 1.3 something mine was showing at 1.4 something!

Why this different to usual? everything was bought new and i would never of changed the settings!
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December 30, 2013 12:20:39 PM

The voltage is too high. Just reset the bios before you start.
Also the 3.8 might be the turbo core frequency where 1 core can go higher than the others on single threaded applications.
When you have reset the bios check the bus speed is at 200 then set the multiplier to 17.5.
Or if your happy with the temperatures after that you should probably be able to overclock to 4.2Ghz.
People who like to just have processors as fast as possible sometimes go to 4.6 - 4.8Ghz but you would need really good cooling and some overclocking experience.
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December 30, 2013 12:24:36 PM

My voltage at standard was near 1.4 also. Now I'm at 4.4GHz with 1.3v :lol: 
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December 30, 2013 12:33:52 PM

What are your temperatures at 4.4Ghz?

JOOK-D said:
My voltage at standard was near 1.4 also. Now I'm at 4.4GHz with 1.3v :lol: 


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December 30, 2013 12:50:28 PM

jay2577 said:
What are your temperatures at 4.4Ghz?

JOOK-D said:
My voltage at standard was near 1.4 also. Now I'm at 4.4GHz with 1.3v :lol: 




Idle:
Core: 20C
Socket: 36C

Gaming:
Core: 30-40C
Socket: ~50C

Load I don't exceed 55C on the core but I go slightly over max temp on the socket (76 or so). That's in 3 hours prime95 smallFFT.
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December 30, 2013 12:54:01 PM

jay2577 said:
What are your temperatures at 4.4Ghz?

JOOK-D said:
My voltage at standard was near 1.4 also. Now I'm at 4.4GHz with 1.3v :lol: 




I set everything back to the default settings and then overclocked it to 4GHz, it also changed my memory from like 1150igh MHz to 1333Mhz!
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December 30, 2013 12:57:36 PM

Nice. I might try a little higher with mine:D 
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December 30, 2013 1:16:43 PM

jay2577 said:
Nice. I might try a little higher with mine:D 


I ran prime95 for about 15mins, the cpu max temp got to 57 degrees C and averaged at about 55 degrees C!

I google what AMD max temp for the CPU is and they say 62!

How much further do you reckon we could push for before reaching 60 average?
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December 30, 2013 1:41:02 PM

bouncedk said:
mjwhelan said:
jay2577 said:
Nice. I might try a little higher with mine:D 


I ran prime95 for about 15mins, the cpu max temp got to 57 degrees C and averaged at about 55 degrees C!

I google what AMD max temp for the CPU is and they say 62!

How much further do you reckon we could push for before reaching 60 average?


Usually when temp checking you'll want to monitor socket and core temp, most apps only settle for one of them.
Max socket temp is 70 and core is 61.

Try http://www.hwinfo.com (sensor only mode) it's great for that sort of thing.

What to look for


This software is great, means I can safely be under the temps and have about another 15oC on both chip and socket!

Should I just increase the multiplier from 20.5 to 21.5?
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December 30, 2013 1:47:30 PM

Are you happy with your performance?
You don't want to push too high and cause problems:) 
I sold someone a quad core system once pre overclocked to 4.1Ghz. After i explained to the person what overclocking was they somehow decided it was a good idea to overclock to 5Ghz:lol: 

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December 30, 2013 1:52:50 PM

jay2577 said:
Are you happy with your performance?
You don't want to push too high and cause problems:) 
I sold someone a quad core system once pre overclocked to 4.1Ghz. After i explained to the person what overclocking was they somehow decided it was a good idea to overclock to 5Ghz:lol: 



To what extent can you keep increasing the multiplier? 20.5 was shown to be very stable and didn't produce any more heat than 20.0!
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