LF Advice/Guidance about components for newbie/starter Adobe, Video, 3D

Lovestar

Honorable
Dec 30, 2013
18
0
10,510
Hi guys. =) I've been working with PCs my whole life, and I've done a lot of upgrades on my systems, but this is the first time I'll be building entirely myself from scratch. And the last few years I've been distracted and gotten completely out-of-the-loop about the entire market.

What I need most isn't specific parts lists or shopping carts (that will come later), but honest and straight advice about what type of components to shop for. Because I'm a little overwhelmed/confused right now.

TIMEFRAME
This will depend on how much the final build's cost is (cheaper = sooner), but there's a hard deadline of March 2014 so I have time to order, build, and troubleshoot before WinXP end-of-support.

CURRENT SYSTEM
... is so old that nothing inside the case can be upgraded or salvaged. We are definitely building brand-new, from scratch.

RESOLUTION
Currently I use a 19" 1280x1024 DVI LCD flat-panel, old-school (purchased about 6 years ago). I'm not sure if a new display will fit into the budget right now, but eventually I do want to upgrade to an LED-backlit, thinking roughly 24" and at least 1920x1080 as the long-term goal.

BUDGET
This is hard to answer. Flexible. I want to keep the cost down, because I don't want to waste money on power I don't actually have the skill to utilize yet. But I am willing to pay whatever is appropriate to build this system "properly" based on my goals.

USAGE
This splits 2 different ways, and forms my primary dilemma when building this system.

First, there's the 'guaranteed' stuff. Tasks I've done for years and will certainly continue doing on the new system. These are:
  • ■Gaming. I play a variety, but my 'standard' genre is open-world action stuff (think FPS, adventure, Far Cry, Just Cause, GW2, etc.).
    ■2D design / illustration using Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.
    ■Various irrelevant stuff that basically any computer could handle. :)
Then there's the 'experimental' stuff. These are creative directions I've always been curious about, but never had a system that could handle trying it. I want my new build to allow me to experiment effectively with these mediums.
  • ■Recording/capturing gameplay.
    ■Editing video (game & IRL), extensively. (not simple compress > upload).
    ■Uploading to videosharing sites (YouTube, etc), nothing higher-quality needed for now.
    ■3D art/design (Maya, Blender, etc. stuff).
    ■Animation (2D, 3D, machinima, etc.)
MY DILEMMA
The 'experiment' part is what's making this hard. Basically, I'm stuck between 2 completely opposite issues:
  • ■I don't want to spend silly amounts of money building for Video / 3D capability when this experiment may not work out, and I may just stick with illustration & design.
    ■But I also don't want to build too cheap now, only to find myself slamming into an un-upgradeable brick wall if I get more serious.
BUILD GOALS
What I need is people who understand all the details about current-market hardware stuff better than I do, who can tell me how much power I actually need to:
  • ■Play with this stuff effectively and get a fair impression of what creating in these mediums is like.
    ■Have a solid system that can be upgraded and invested in further if I decide to push it more.
    ■Not go overboard and give myself Ludicrous Speed™ that, as a newbie, will just be mostly-wasted while I'm still learning to walk in programs like Premiere, Maya, etc.
PARTS I DO UNDERSTAND
  • RAM: For my needs speed is ~irrelevant, even 1333 performs competitively in most tasks. Whereas RAM size can never be big enough. This is true even for 2D design/illus work. So I'm thinking about 16GB to start, and leave room to expand.
    PSU: There's really no such thing as 'too good', a lesson I learned the hard way when previous systems were killed by poor stock PSUs. I am willing to pay extra for a good PSU.
    ■Everything that lives outside the case or is more optional/peripheral.
PARTS I CAN'T FIGURE OUT
  • CPU: They all sound good! Ahhh! I need someone to just slap me upside the head and say "You don't need the power of X, just buy Y and you'll never notice the difference with what you're doing."
    MoBo: These scare me, because it feels like there's a million ways to accidentally buy the 'wrong' one. I will do the dirty boring research myself, I just need to know what "numbers" I'm looking for because I can't make heads or tails of MoBo info. :p
    GPU: OK look, GPUs are the sexy celebrities & porn stars of PC building. I want that big expensive card so bad because it's so pretty. But do I actually need that "80" suffix for what I'm doing? Or is "70", "60", or something else totally adequate? :p
    Cooling: I'll look into this in more detail once I have components narrowed down. But I will say every single PC I've ever owned died from overheating, and I'd like to prevent that for once.
    SSD/HDD: I'm finding a lot of conflicting information about whether I need SSD, what kind of HDD, whether I need a RAID 0 setup for recording/editing, etc. Again: they all sound awesome. But I'm not really sure what I pragmatically need for right now.
PREFERENCES
  • ■Intel CPU. I don't think AMD is bad, but I have a hangup about Intel. And I like blue.
    ■NVIDIA GPU. Because I also like green. =)
    ■No SLI. I've researched it, and it won't benefit me much and adds potential headaches I don't see as worth it.
    ■Overclocking: I've never done it before, and it scares me because I've blown up past PCs via heat-death w/o changing any settings. :( But I am willing to be open-minded if you think I can benefit from it without blowing something up.
    ■Case/form factor: HUGE. I'm tired of tiny PCs that overheat easily and are hard to work inside! I want a case + mobo that could double as a horse trailer in a pinch.
Thank you for any guidance you can give, guys. I apologize for the super-long length, but I am absolutely terrible at being concise. I'm great at being detailed, though! =)


 
Solution
Hmm, so just to clarify you want to mainly do video editing/heavy rendering etc., with some gaming on the side?

If so, I would recommend an AMD CPU for your build. The FX 8350 is the sweet spot for gaming and heavy rendering. It's 8 cores and hyper threading is pretty awesome for video editing and, well, everything. However, it does lack /some/ power in single threaded apps like a lot of games, so expect some drawback there. Not more, but some. Now, you weren't very exact on your price point. That being said, I'm going to list the other, slightly more expensive option. This would be something along the lines of an i7 4770k. This is only a 4 core, BUT it has 2 threads per core, so essentially an "8 core cpu". This has hyper threading as...
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2sAVG
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2sAVG/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2sAVG/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.98 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus Z87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($174.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($135.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($169.45 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($82.94 @ Amazon)
Sound Card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z 70SB150200000 24-bit 192 KHz Sound Card ($79.48 @ TigerDirect)
Case: Rosewill THRONE-Window ATX Full Tower Case ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($58.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit - OEM (64-bit) ($99.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1390.77
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-12-30 03:17 EST-0500)
 
few things you should switch from xp to windows 8. there a few issues with older os and newer motherboards and hard drives. with xp and new hard drives they dont use the same byte size formating as the older drives. to use windows xp on a new hard drive you have to use a 3 party tool to re aline the drive.
http://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/align-partition-for-windows-xp.html
to get fast boot speeds into windows and aps with an ssd you need windows 8 that been writen for newer hardware.
windows 8 and new mb most pc now are instant on..just move your mouse or hit the keyboard. with windows 8.1 and free software you can have the os look and act as windows 7.
there no gpu in your build as nvida 800 maxwell is a few weeks from dropping.
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33362-maxwell-geforce-cards-shipping-by-march-2014
I would for the money pick up the 870 card or the 860. the newer cards per leaked info use less power then the 700 and early cards. (run cooler). the 1150 mb has wifi/blue tooth card it not a gaming mb but it a well built mb with good 5 year warranty on it. asus mb also have new feature called usb flashback. dont need a cpu or ram to update the cmos if the cmos goes bad or it damaged from a virus. the 1150 mb will also let you drop in an i7 if needed or the haswell refresh. the i5 cpu just missing hyper threading. if you have a local micro center the i7 4770k is 250.00 if you want spend the 30.00 more for cpu with hyper threading. I put is a sound card into the system. if your into game recording of live online games then using a sound card with it own prossing chip will help your rig. onboard sound chip the cpu and mb run the sound chipset with it drivers. there is a little more overhead using onboard sound then using a sound card.
also some people can tell sound cards sound better. also the sound card give you digital output to a home stereo receiver. there also a blue ray drive in the pc so you can watch newer blue ray movies or use your pc as media center.
at some latter point pick up a home network storage device. do backup of your data too.
 

mikestogy

Honorable
Nov 18, 2013
86
0
10,640
Hmm, so just to clarify you want to mainly do video editing/heavy rendering etc., with some gaming on the side?

If so, I would recommend an AMD CPU for your build. The FX 8350 is the sweet spot for gaming and heavy rendering. It's 8 cores and hyper threading is pretty awesome for video editing and, well, everything. However, it does lack /some/ power in single threaded apps like a lot of games, so expect some drawback there. Not more, but some. Now, you weren't very exact on your price point. That being said, I'm going to list the other, slightly more expensive option. This would be something along the lines of an i7 4770k. This is only a 4 core, BUT it has 2 threads per core, so essentially an "8 core cpu". This has hyper threading as well, and a bit faster single thread clock speeds. So to sum those 2 recommend cpus, the i7 would be more for gaming, and the fx more for video editing. For you, I'd say the fx 8350. I have owned both of these CPUs and both are amazing.


For the GPU, it pretty much comes down to the price you want to pay. The GTX 770/780 are in my opinion the best cards for price/performance. Heck maybe even a 760. And yea yea, you may have heard that the "Titan" is the best, but it honestly isn't worth it for the price. SLI GTX 770 blows the titan out of the water for like 400$ less. Anyway, back on track. I'd go with the GTX 770 if you can afford a 350~$ card, if not that one, do the 760.


Motherboards are indeed a tricky part of the build. Lets set a little scenario. Lets say you go for an i7 4770k (intel) CPU. You will need to find a mobo that fits that specific form factor. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116901 you will see that this processor says "LGA 1150". That is the CPUs form factor, and you will need to find a mobo that supports "LGA 1150" like this one - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130692 see how it says "LGA 1150"? That means it will fit. Now to "decode" all the stuffs on the motherboard title, I'll use that mobo I just linked for reference. It says:

"MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Extreme OC High Performance Triple CFX/ SLI Intel Motherboard"

The "MSI z87-GD56" part is just the model of the board and the socket (z87). "LGA 1150 z87 intel" is the socket type for the PCU. "6GB/s SATA" means it transfers data from your SATA drives at 6gb/s. the "USB 3.0" means it supports USB 3.0 ports. And finally, the "Tripple CFX/SLI" means it supports up to 3 Nvidia graphics cards, or 3 Raedon cards. For your build, I'd go with something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130692


As for cooling, I would suggest the Corsair h100. Very efficient, and rather cheap. Stock cooling is also wonderful if you don't want to spend the money, can be a bit louder though.

Also, a good case is a MUST!!!! The HAF X by Cooler Master is my favorite case of all time. Amazing air flow, super big, awesome RED LED fan on the front. Spend about 100$ ish on some low noise fans and you're golden.

Finally, the SSD/HDD. I really don't find any need for an SSD for anything. For the price of one 120gb SSD, I can get 2000gb of HDD storage. But, if you want faster boot times, go for the SSD.


Just as a reference, I'll show you what my build can do.

Intel Core i7 4770k
Nvidia GTX 770 SC with ATX cooling
16GB Dominator Platinum DDR3 RAM
HAF X FULL ATX CASE
Corsair h100 CPU cooler
1000w Raidmax gold PSU

Now, with this I can play games like bf3, far cry, WoW, etc all at 60fps on highest settings. Video editing is amazing on this, especially stuff on Creative Cloud, After Effects, Sony Vegas, etc. The whole build is SO quiet with some new fans that are designed to be quiet. Tbh the loudest thing is my hard drive lol. But yea, if you have any more questions let me know.
 
Solution

Lovestar

Honorable
Dec 30, 2013
18
0
10,510
Thanks so much guys! I appreciate you reading through everything and taking so much time to educate me. =) I appreciate your suggestions / new ideas, I'll probably ask about them in more detail in their own threads in the appropriate forums.

My priorities are basically like this as a sliding scale:

  • Gaming & 2D illustration/design (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.). This isn't experimental at all, I do this stuff all the time and will keep doing it.
    Game capture/recording, Video editing and upload (game & RL). This is 'new' for me, but I'm almost certain I'll enjoy it, so being able to do it well is very likely worth the investment up-front.
    Animation (2D, machinima, etc). This is definitely 'experimental' territory for me, but I'm very interested, so if I can pull it off creatively, I'll do it a lot. Good chance investment here will be worth it.
    3D modeling / rendering / content creation. This is very experimental, sort-of a whim. I have no experience with creating in 3D space, but I'm curious about it. I just want to be able to finally try this out/explore it since I've never had a system that could before.
As far as CPU I've been doing more research on my own / asking around other places, and I basically arrived at the same 4770K idea you guys gave me. The price difference is not enough to discourage me and it sounds like a good balance of performance & cost.

I'm also considering is the 4930K. It's much pricier, so it would delay building my system a bit, but in exchange the extra cores would be a long-term boon if I get really serious with the more intensive apps (video or 3D, etc). Anything above 4930K seems like a serious waste of money, tho. =) So it's 4770 vs. 4930 right for me atm.

GPU continues to stump me, I feel like I can't win, haha.
  • ■ I like the high VRAM that AMD cards & Titan have (but not the price!). It seems like a good idea for more intensive creative apps.
    ■ I like the better native temp management, stability, and CUDA that NVIDIA cards have and that more creative apps seem designed for them.
    ■ I like the stronger benchmarks of AMD cards, although I know benchmarks don't always translate to reality.
    ■ I like the price:perf ratio on 770 / 780.
    ■ I like the better high-end program performance of FirePro/Quadro stuff, but I don't like the gaming performance you sacrifice to get it (and vice-versa with consumer cards).
Overall, I'm stumped. I feel like there's really no correct solution to GPU beyond buying multiple cards and building multiple systems, which is so not happening. As much fun as I'm having building this, at some point I still need to buy food. =)

For motherboard your explanation was great and made it all make sense (finally). It seems mobos are pretty 'simple', you pick your CPU and then match it up and just find mobos with good performance / stability / reviews. Mostly number-matching, like case dimensions, cooler size, supported RAM, etc. Not so much decision-making. So that's one load off my mind. =)

For cooling I will probably go with (a lot of) air in a well-designed case. I'm a little overwhelmed making my first full build and I don't feel up to the complication / maintenance of water cooling. I know that probably sounds lame, but I want to take things 1 big leap at a time and not risk messing up more complex cooling solutions. =)

@mikestogy I like your build, that's really similar to the kind of thing I've shaken out as a non-4930K concept. Sorry if I seem to have waffled a bit since the OP btw, I went into this thinking of building a new corner-cutting system NOW FAST NOW (because I'm impatient), but the more I research & learn, the more I'm starting to feel it makes sense to just be patient, save up more, and build really strong to last a few solid years.

Now, with this I can play games like bf3, far cry, WoW, etc all at 60fps on highest settings. Video editing is amazing on this, especially stuff on Creative Cloud, After Effects, Sony Vegas, etc.
That's the kind of thing I'm looking for, for sure! =)

Oh, also, what does "with ATX cooling" mean on your GPU? Is that an ATX case fan dedicated to cooling the GPU?
 

Transmaniacon

Distinguished
I would agree for your needs the i7-4770K is where you should land. It is better than AMD for gaming, and with 8 fast threads you get great performance for your other programs. I don't think you can justify the i7-4930K. With this CPU also comes more expensive motherboards, and I don't think you do enough to justify the $300 premium.

For a motherboard, you want a Z87 chipset, I think Gigabyte has some of the best 1150 offerings right now.

Contrary to what was said above, an SSD is absolutey necessary. A 120GB for $90 lets you put your OS and apps on there and greatly improves everyday computing tasks, load times, and just makes for an overall smoother experience. This is a must in my opinion.

I also think the GTX770 is a great option for 1080P gaming. Don't worry so much about VRam, you only really need more than 2GB for bigger resolutions, or heavily modded games like Skyrim.

Here is a build that I think suits you better:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($154.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($134.95 @ B&H)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($98.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($339.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($86.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - OEM (64-bit) ($94.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1470.80
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-03 08:13 EST-0500)
 

Lovestar

Honorable
Dec 30, 2013
18
0
10,510
OK, thanks guys. I'll probably make more specific threads now to ask about the components I'm still unsure about.

All of your responses were helpful, I'm picking @mikestogy as the solution because he explained the most things I didn't understand. =)