System Upgrade Advice

Dakorian

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Jan 2, 2014
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OK I've been reading tons of stuff here and all over the web trying to find the right mix of parts to get the maximum performance and longevity while staying within my budget. I'll do my best to explain where I'm coming from and then you guys can correct my mistakes.

I built my current computer in 2003, and have upgraded it piecemeal many times over the years. I currently am using:

Motherboard: Gigabyte EP45-UD3R
CPU: Core 2 Duo E8400 (OC'd to 3.6GHz)
GPU: GTX 465
RAM: 4GB DDR2 PC2-6400
PSU: 500W with plenty of space on the +12v rails

The E8400 seems to be as far as I can go with this CPU slot so a motherboard upgrade is needed. Here is my proposed new layout:

Motherboard: ASRock H87M lga 1150 Micro ATX ~$80

Doesn't need microATX but price is good, case can still fit GPU, and Its got great reviews.

CPU: Intel i3-4130 ~$120

Went with a cheaper 1150 chip after reading an article where the i5 for $180 recommended here was 1155 and only a 2-3% performance increase, and also 1155 seems to be phasing out.

GPU: R9 270 (maybe 270x) ~$180

for price/performance comparisons, the 270 beat out the 660 by a hair and I have no personal bias for AMD or Nvidia.

RAM: 8gb of something cheap with good reviews. ~$80


Comments? Any suggested changes or cautioning? Anything that could save me money, or be a huge upgrade for minimal cost increase?
 
Solution
are you getting those all at once? If so, then it seems fine, though I would scour the internet more for the RAM, G. Skill often has high quality 8GB sets on sale for about 60 bucks on newegg, so there's that

mobo and CPU look fine

as for the GPU, though AMD does have strong price/performance, it would still be prudent to consider an Nvidia GPU rather than AMD for the superior software support, imo Nvidia's drivers are usually more stable and provide bigger performance enhancements than AMDs.
 

Dakorian

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Jan 2, 2014
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10,510
thanks for all the advice!

@r-sky no, psu is maybe 3 years old, has 2 +12v rails at 18A i think.

@geofelt The problem with the H81 comes in that the mobo doesn't have pcie 3.0 slot. I'm trying to set it up so that I can upgrade piece by piece rather than all at once...in the future. times like now come along where all the parts are a few years old and any single upgrade would be somewhat bottle-necked by the older parts.

@lmaonade200 yes these would be all purchased and installed at the same time. but i though about trying to do the cpu/mobo/ram first then the gpu later to cut costs. thoughts on that? thanks for the advice on the ram, and i'll look into gpu's in more detail. I'm a firm believer in which ever gives me better performance for the money but i have had my 465 for a while and it's been great, and before that i had a 8800gt that was also nice.

one question keeps niggling, ATX vs mATX...no difference in performance? besides case size and i'm only using a single GPU?

 

r-sky

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May 8, 2007
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Only if you are overclocking - better VRM's can be found on ATX boards - more $$$ Too.

 
no difference in performance, the only difference with a mini ATX is the number of slots for components (unlikely to be a problem)

and getting the GPU later is fine, hell you may even find better deals while you're waiting, since the R9 cards haven't gone on sale once since they were released IIRC. And better price to performance is always a good path to follow but sometimes stability is worth a small premium, and this really isn't coming from a Nvidia fanboy, in fact I mostly prefer AMD products for myself and my buddies when they ask for building advice since we're usually on a very tight and small budget.
But after toying around with different systems I have to say Nvidia makes an extremely strong case with their software support (though I haven't gotten around to playing with the new AMD drivers as of late, so they might be vastly improved)
 

Dakorian

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Jan 2, 2014
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nope no overclocking for me, only did the 8400 cause it seems to be built for it.

slots are no problem i only have a GPU and sound card. and the more i look into it waiting on the GPU seems like a good idea. it saves me a huge chunk right now and is still a substantial upgrade overall. plus, as mentioned, potential future sales. (newegg has a great tax rebate sale IIRC)
 


if you have a sound card it MAY be problematic, since in some smaller boards the GPU can cover the PCIe slot, though I'm not exactly sure with your model since I've never handled it personally
 

Dakorian

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Jan 2, 2014
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no worries, the mobo I'm looking at has 2 pci slots so a fat GPU shouldn't hurt me. also i was looking and a 760 isn't that much more than a 270x, a nice sale and i'm set.
 

Dakorian

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Jan 2, 2014
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thank you and thanks again for the input.

Edit: I just had a thought. What if I upgraded my GPU first? I'm aware that putting a pcie3.0 card in 2.0 slot would bottle neck it like crazy, but here's my reasoning. This is a gaming computer, my choice to upgrade is to increase my graphical capabilities. Wouldn't a bottle necked 270 still be a bigger increase in graphical performance than a mobo/cpu/ram combo?

I'm aware that certain games are more stressful on the cpu than gpu but I'm speaking in general. for specifics I play FFXIV:ARR.
 
The size of the motherboard makes no difference in performance.
Only the most expensive enthusiast motherboards will have superior overclocking voltage controls that can eke out a few extra multipliers. The size mostly determines how many expansion slots you get. For most of us, we need only one.
If you are looking at planning for dual cards,
Here is my canned rant on planning for dual cards:
-----------------------------Start of rant----------------------------------------------------
Dual graphics cards vs. a good single card.

a) How good do you really need to be?
A single GTX650/ti or 7770 can give you good performance at 1920 x 1200 in most games.

A single GTX660 or 7850 will give you excellent performance at 1920 x 1200 in most games.
Even 2560 x 1600 will be good with lowered detail.
A single gtx690,7990, GTX780ti or R9-290X is about as good as it gets for a single card.

Only if you are looking at triple monitor gaming, or a 4k monitor, might sli/cf will be needed.
Even that is now changing with triple monitor support on top end cards and stronger single card solutions.

b) The costs for a single card are lower.
You require a less expensive motherboard; no need for sli/cf or multiple pci-e slots.
Even a ITX motherboard will do.

Your psu costs are less.
A GTX660 needs a 430w psu, even a GTX780 only needs a 575w psu.
When you add another card to the mix, plan on adding 200w to your psu requirements.

Even the most power hungry GTX690 only needs 620w, or a 7990 needs 700w.

Case cooling becomes more of an issue with dual cards.
That means a more expensive case with more and stronger fans.
You will also look at more noise.

c) Dual gpu's do not always render their half of the display in sync, causing microstuttering. It is an annoying effect.
The benefit of higher benchmark fps can be offset, particularly with lower tier cards.
Read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995.html

d) dual gpu support is dependent on the driver. Not all games can benefit from dual cards.

e) dual cards up front reduces your option to get another card for an upgrade. Not that I suggest you plan for that.
It will often be the case that replacing your current card with a newer gen card will offer a better upgrade path.
The Maxwell and amd 8000 or 9000 series are due next year.
-------------------------------End of rant-----------------------------------------------------------

On pcie2.0 vs. 3.0, there is negligible difference, and that only shows up with the strongest cards
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Ivy_Bridge_PCI-Express_Scaling/23.html

If I was going to pay more for a motherboard, I would buy a Z87 based motherboard.
That will give you the option to swap out your cpu for a i5-4670K in the future.
It will cost you about $100.

As a rule, a gpu upgrade is more effective for the gamer than a cpu upgrade.

To help clarify your options, run these two tests:

a) Run your games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

b) Limit your cpu, either by reducing the OC, or, in windows power management, limit the maximum cpu% to something like 50%.
This will simulate what a lack of cpu power will do.


Go to control panel/power options/change plan settings/change advanced power settings/processor power management/maximum processor state/
set to 50% and see how you do.


You could also experiment with removing one core in the bios. This will tell you how sensitive your games are to the benefits of many cores.

If your FPS drops significantly, it is an indicator that your cpu is the limiting factor, and a cpu upgrade is in order.

It is possible that both tests are positive, indicating that you have a well balanced system, and both cpu and gpu need to be upgraded to get better gaming FPS.


 

Dakorian

Honorable
Jan 2, 2014
8
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10,510
thanks for the in depth response and advice for tests.

for the record, I agree whole heartedly about dual gpu setups. I'm not a fan.

I ran those tests you suggested, basically I gain maybe 20fps lowering my settings from mid-low. and limiting my cpu dropped it by about 30 fps.(it generally runs at ~40, with drops if there are a lot of particle effects)

This suggests to me that, as far as gaming goes, the upgrade of my gpu would have a bigger impact. it would also give me time to save a bit more and for, possibly, a z87 board to go on sale. I read up on them and they do sound nice but still a bit beyond my current budget.