Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Solved

Does my ideal monitor exist? (IPS, 1-2ms, 120hz, 2560x1440, 27-ish inch, low input lag)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
January 6, 2014 3:41:04 AM

Hey all,

Looking for the best gaming monitor for first person shooters, so low input lag + low response times (1-2ms) and high refresh (120hz) are a must. I believe the BenQ XL2720T (27 inch 1920x1080, 1ms, 120Hz Refresh Rate) fits this bill. I've tried looking for input lag for this monitor but couldn't find anything...anyone know anything?

My quest seems to come to a halt when trying to up the resolution whilst maintaining 120hz. Are these two traits mutually exclusive?

Thirdly and finally, does anyone know of a monitor that is an IPS, 1-2ms, 120hz, 2560x1440, 27-ish inch and that has low input lag, or is the BenQ the best compromise/monitor for my needs, seeing as I'd choose performance over a minor(?) improved picture for first person shooters?

Kind regards,

Tom.

BenQ monitor: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BN1PNY8/
Asus monitor I also like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009668YPM
January 6, 2014 4:02:52 AM

Hey Tom,

Are you limited to UK monitors? You can pick up a Crossover one from eBay which has pretty much exactly what you're looking for: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CROSSOVER-BLACK-TUNE-2755AMG-...

This answers Q3.

Not too confident in asking Q1 but for Q2 I'd say they're independent seen as the monitor is available.

Hope this helps,

Erkin
m
0
l
January 6, 2014 4:29:40 AM

l1ghtm4st3r said:
Hey Tom,

Are you limited to UK monitors? You can pick up a Crossover one from eBay which has pretty much exactly what you're looking for: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CROSSOVER-BLACK-TUNE-2755AMG-...

This answers Q3.

Not too confident in asking Q1 but for Q2 I'd say they're independent seen as the monitor is available.

Hope this helps,

Erkin


Thank you. I'm happy to order worldwide so long as it arrives undamaged!

I've not heard of this monitor - is it reputable?

Also, wouldn't the 6.5ms response time affect first person shooters such as BF2/3/4?

KR,

Tom.

PS I've just recalled reading somewhere on toms hardware that 2560x1440 can look a little pixellated (you can actually see the squares) when combined with either a 27 inch or 30 inch monitor...does anyone know what size screen this refers too?

PPS (to everyone): I'm happy to spend up to £600 on the RIGHT monitor.
m
0
l
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
January 6, 2014 4:35:11 AM

I'll be honest, there is a lot of positive and negative talk when it comes down to buying monitors from South Korea; generally they're okay. It's unlikely to arrive damaged. In terms of is it reputable, it's not really where people go before they go to benq or asus. Occassionally it's said they arrive with dead pixels so you may want to be wary.

In answer to your P.S. that's true with 1920x1080 res, not 2560x1440.
In answer to your P.S. As it seems money isn't much of an issue, then I would also advise looking into the Dell monitors, e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-UltraSharp-U2713H-Widescre...

which are said to be pretty damn excellent.
m
0
l
January 6, 2014 6:21:58 AM

Hmmm....so still no 'ultimate' monitor then?

The "CROSSOVER BLACK TUNE 2755AMG" linked to me above still appears to be the closest match...just a little slow with the 6.5ms response time and no info on input lag. Ticks all the other criteria though:

- less than 5ms response time
- 120 hz refresh rate
- 2560 x 1440 resolution
- little to none input lag
- IPS panel
- 27-30inch ideal size range
- £600ish

The Asus and BenQ only fill part of the above criteria and I cant seem to find anything on ebay/Amazon...where else can I look?

Kind regards,

Tom.
m
0
l
January 6, 2014 6:28:30 AM

From previous knowledge, which is a bit rusty, it is due to the fact that the panel - using IPS, results in a much slowed response time which is why hardcore gamers sometimes prefer to use a TN panel as response times are down to a millisecond, even at the cost of some brightness and vividity in the colours of an IPS.

I don't believe the speed of 1-2ms has been developed for IPS due to the way it switches between frames and as such is difficult to minimise the time elapsed.

I also believe I read somewhere that although panels have been cut down to 1ms, the eye can only notice speeds down to 2ms.


Good luck on your searches though Tom.

thanks,

Erkin
m
0
l
January 6, 2014 6:59:14 AM

l1ghtm4st3r said:
From previous knowledge, which is a bit rusty, it is due to the fact that the panel - using IPS, results in a much slowed response time which is why hardcore gamers sometimes prefer to use a TN panel as response times are down to a millisecond, even at the cost of some brightness and vividity in the colours of an IPS.

I don't believe the speed of 1-2ms has been developed for IPS due to the way it switches between frames and as such is difficult to minimise the time elapsed.

I also believe I read somewhere that although panels have been cut down to 1ms, the eye can only notice speeds down to 2ms.


Good luck on your searches though Tom.

thanks,

Erkin


Thank you so much for your help Erkin.

I'm seriously thinking about the Crossfire. Would 6.5ms vs 1ms even be noticeable in competitive FPS games? We're talking of a 5.5ms difference = 0.0055 seconds which can't make THAT much difference...can it?! (I'm trying to convince myself the Crossfire is the one haha!)

Kind regards,

Tom.
m
0
l
January 6, 2014 7:06:47 AM

I've played games before and I can't tell the difference between 2ms and 5ms on my old TN panel but I could see one between 5ms and 7ms. I'd advise you do some reading up on the horror stories surrounding the Crossover panels though and also the comparisons between them and the current market ones.

To avoid buyer's remorse you may also want to look into their PP models (perfect pixel) which means when you get your panel, it's guaranteed that every pixel is working. They're a considerable increase in price though over the regulars.

As always, happy to help out where I can. Was sort of hoping another forum user would come in and add their thoughts to this too.

But good luck :) 

Regards,
Erkin
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 6, 2014 9:54:13 AM

aFatFish said:
I'm seriously thinking about the Crossfire. Would 6.5ms vs 1ms even be noticeable in competitive FPS games? We're talking of a 5.5ms difference = 0.0055 seconds which can't make THAT much difference...can it?! (I'm trying to convince myself the Crossfire is the one haha!)

Kind regards,

Tom.


If you want to complicate things further, you should know that the response time listed on the box is a flat out lie by the LCD manufacturer! You have no way of knowing the real response times from the box; only proper testing tells you if it's any good.

For absolute proof of this, look at this monitor which claims 5ms, but really is 20ms!:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/zalma...
Do you see how most of the response times are around 20ms!? However, the monitor claims a response time of 5ms on the box!
How does it achieve this lie? Simple: take a look at the first row on that review. Notice how just a few response times are below 1ms. The LCD companies list the the response time from this very small area and totally ignore how 90% of the time the monitor is a very bad 20ms.


BTW, the term "response time" is very misleading. There are literally thousands of different response times for a single monitor. Response time is the time it takes for the monitor to change from one shade of grey/black/white to a different shade of grey/black/white.
Since there are usually 256 shades and they can change to any of the other 255 shades. 256 x 255 means you have over 65,000 possible changes a monitor makes... each of these can have a very different response time. However, as you noticed the boxes only list 1 response time... so how do you know the other 60,000? :)  In the past, the LCD companies used to list the black to white response time (and not check any others). However, this one is usually very, very fast while the others are quite slow, so it made it look like monitors have fast response times when they were really quite slow. Nowadays, sometimes monitor companies list a grey to grey transition. However, once again, it's just a single number and often subject to being quite unrepresentative of reality.

You can read some more here:
response times
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/lcd-t...
response time errors:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/lcd-t...


So, will your IPS be fine? I don't know; but it's also likely you could end up with a slow TN panel if you try to get one just by looking at the so-called "response time" listed on the box.

As a aside, try reading reviews of the monitor you want first. (Try a good search on the model you are interested in) Focus on places like forums, where people care about monitor quality (hardocp seems to have a lot of monitor enthusiasts).

I should also add, that even if you have a true LCD with all 60,000+ response times below 1ms, you will still see blurring. Yup, you heard right. Here's the reason:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/
and to see if for yourself:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking
m
0
l

Best solution

a b C Monitor
January 6, 2014 10:15:55 AM

Wait for G-Sync, it is coming out in Q2 this year and will give the IPS/1440p monitors the edge for gamers. Don't buy one of those Korean overclocked monitors, unless someone gives you proof they own one and it is actually functioning. :D  Or if you cannot wait just buy the ASUS 144Hz monitor with 1ms response time which is the top of the line monitor for gaming needs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... . Hope this explains more and hepls you on your future monitor purchase. :) 
Share
a b C Monitor
January 6, 2014 10:24:08 AM

tmacg55 said:
Wait for G-Sync, it is coming out in Q2 this year and will give the IPS/1440p monitors the edge for gamers. Don't buy one of those Korean overclocked monitors, unless someone gives you proof they own one and it is actually functioning. :D  Or if you cannot wait just buy the ASUS 144Hz monitor with 1ms response time which is the top of the line monitor for gaming needs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... . Hope this explains more and hepls you on your future monitor purchase. :) 

There are many places where people discuss buying Korean panels, and it is not a scam; you often get a rather nice monitor (or one that is even better than most on the market) at a good price.
But it does have it's risks. There is sometimes very little warranty; some might offer 1 year. You are shipping overseas, so that has it's complications regarding returns and what if you find a problem, don't like it, etc.... You might need to buy a US power converter... and well I don't know what else as I haven't researched it in detail. However, there are huge owners forum posts on other site(s) that you can read about it.

BTW, if you just meant buying it from someone who already ordered it from Korea and checked it out, sorry. I can understand how this whole thing is a little bit worrysome. I don't know if I would buy it that way or not either, It's not ideal to have to buy something this way with all these risks. However, when none of the US brands will offer the specs you want (without charging 2x - 4x), sometimes this seems like it might be a viable alternative.

BTW, the monitor tmacg55 linked to has lightboost, which will get rid of that motion blur I talked about earlier. However, the monitor has aweful viewing angle issues if you ever do image editing (not a problem for games though).

About:
http://pcmonitors.info/forum/topic/new-development-ligh...
Picture of bad screen for image editing (notice how the color changes from one side of the screen to the other); not a big problem for games though:
http://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/VG248...

m
0
l
January 7, 2014 8:23:46 AM

tmacg55 said:
Wait for G-Sync, it is coming out in Q2 this year and will give the IPS/1440p monitors the edge for gamers. Don't buy one of those Korean overclocked monitors, unless someone gives you proof they own one and it is actually functioning. :D  Or if you cannot wait just buy the ASUS 144Hz monitor with 1ms response time which is the top of the line monitor for gaming needs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... . Hope this explains more and hepls you on your future monitor purchase. :) 


Thank you for commenting.

So, if I hold my horses for a few months until April-ish, is there a monitor with G-Sync coming out that can run at 120hz, 2ms, with low input lag and at 2560x1440 resolution (optional: also is an IPS panel)? BTW i'm looking at for a monitor 24-30" with 27" being ideal.

Kind regards,

Tom.
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 7, 2014 8:43:34 AM

KevinAr18 said:
tmacg55 said:
Wait for G-Sync, it is coming out in Q2 this year and will give the IPS/1440p monitors the edge for gamers. Don't buy one of those Korean overclocked monitors, unless someone gives you proof they own one and it is actually functioning. :D  Or if you cannot wait just buy the ASUS 144Hz monitor with 1ms response time which is the top of the line monitor for gaming needs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... . Hope this explains more and hepls you on your future monitor purchase. :) 

There are many places where people discuss buying Korean panels, and it is not a scam; you often get a rather nice monitor (or one that is even better than most on the market) at a good price.
But it does have it's risks. There is sometimes very little warranty; some might offer 1 year. You are shipping overseas, so that has it's complications regarding returns and what if you find a problem, don't like it, etc.... You might need to buy a US power converter... and well I don't know what else as I haven't researched it in detail. However, there are huge owners forum posts on other site(s) that you can read about it.

BTW, if you just meant buying it from someone who already ordered it from Korea and checked it out, sorry. I can understand how this whole thing is a little bit worrysome. I don't know if I would buy it that way or not either, It's not ideal to have to buy something this way with all these risks. However, when none of the US brands will offer the specs you want (without charging 2x - 4x), sometimes this seems like it might be a viable alternative.

BTW, the monitor tmacg55 linked to has lightboost, which will get rid of that motion blur I talked about earlier. However, the monitor has aweful viewing angle issues if you ever do image editing (not a problem for games though).

About:
http://pcmonitors.info/forum/topic/new-development-ligh...
Picture of bad screen for image editing (notice how the color changes from one side of the screen to the other); not a big problem for games though:
http://pcmonitors.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/VG248...



aFatFish said:
tmacg55 said:
Wait for G-Sync, it is coming out in Q2 this year and will give the IPS/1440p monitors the edge for gamers. Don't buy one of those Korean overclocked monitors, unless someone gives you proof they own one and it is actually functioning. :D  Or if you cannot wait just buy the ASUS 144Hz monitor with 1ms response time which is the top of the line monitor for gaming needs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... . Hope this explains more and hepls you on your future monitor purchase. :) 


Thank you for commenting.

So, if I hold my horses for a few months until April-ish, is there a monitor with G-Sync coming out that can run at 120hz, 2ms, with low input lag and at 2560x1440 resolution (optional: also is an IPS panel)? BTW i'm looking at for a monitor 24-30" with 27" being ideal.

Kind regards,

Tom.


"Rumor has it" said best by Adele- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1p6Xbqrbx0
m
0
l
January 7, 2014 9:35:04 AM

Trimax said:
The BenQ XL2720T is what you need! It's amazing and has all the features you listed above and you can order it from the UK!

http://benq.co.uk/product/monitor/xl2720t
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-XL2720T-Widescreen-1920x10...

27"
120Hz
1ms
FPS mode
Loads more really good features for gaming!

Only bad point is it's only 1920x1080 not 2560x1440 but It's cheaper then most 1440p Monitor.


I mentioned this monitor as one of two monitors (the other being the Asus PB278Q which I believe is inferior for gaming?) that I liked as a compromise in my OP.

I may wait a couple of months, see if something comes out with Gsync (I so think nvidia should have called it Nsync haha!) which combines a high resolution without compromising refresh & response rates, and get a second smaller IPS monitor for the occasional image editing.

Anyone know of any firm announcements for a high res Gsync enabled monitor?

Kind regards,

Tom.
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 7, 2014 9:39:04 AM

aFatFish said:
Trimax said:
The BenQ XL2720T is what you need! It's amazing and has all the features you listed above and you can order it from the UK!

http://benq.co.uk/product/monitor/xl2720t
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-XL2720T-Widescreen-1920x10...

27"
120Hz
1ms
FPS mode
Loads more really good features for gaming!

Only bad point is it's only 1920x1080 not 2560x1440 but It's cheaper then most 1440p Monitor.


I mentioned this monitor as one of two monitors (the other being the Asus PB278Q which I believe is inferior for gaming?) that I liked as a compromise in my OP.

I may wait a couple of months, see if something comes out with Gsync (I so think nvidia should have called it Nsync haha!) which combines a high resolution without compromising refresh & response rates, and get a second smaller IPS monitor for the occasional image editing.

Anyone know of any firm announcements for a high res Gsync enabled monitor?

Kind regards,

Tom.


Nvidia is announcing loads of new information throughout CES 2014 about G-Sync, just keep looking out for it on their site. Here is something I just recently scraped up from recent news, a new monitor with G-Sync from ASUS. :)  http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/CES-2014-ASUS-RO...
m
0
l
January 7, 2014 10:54:48 AM

tmacg55 said:
aFatFish said:
Trimax said:
The BenQ XL2720T is what you need! It's amazing and has all the features you listed above and you can order it from the UK!

http://benq.co.uk/product/monitor/xl2720t
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-XL2720T-Widescreen-1920x10...

27"
120Hz
1ms
FPS mode
Loads more really good features for gaming!

Only bad point is it's only 1920x1080 not 2560x1440 but It's cheaper then most 1440p Monitor.


I mentioned this monitor as one of two monitors (the other being the Asus PB278Q which I believe is inferior for gaming?) that I liked as a compromise in my OP.

I may wait a couple of months, see if something comes out with Gsync (I so think nvidia should have called it Nsync haha!) which combines a high resolution without compromising refresh & response rates, and get a second smaller IPS monitor for the occasional image editing.

Anyone know of any firm announcements for a high res Gsync enabled monitor?

Kind regards,

Tom.


Nvidia is announcing loads of new information throughout CES 2014 about G-Sync, just keep looking out for it on their site. Here is something I just recently scraped up from recent news, a new monitor with G-Sync from ASUS. :)  http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/CES-2014-ASUS-RO...


That's a lovely looking monitor and well worth waiting for!

So I think I've found the solution: don't buy anything just yet and wait for some of these announcements/monitors to land; especially as 120hz IPS panels are being hinted at...but if I get bored waiting there's always the temptation of a Gaming Projector!!!

Kind regards,

Tom.
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 7, 2014 11:22:39 AM

aFatFish said:
I may wait a couple of months, see if something comes out with Gsync (I so think nvidia should have called it Nsync haha!) which combines a high resolution without compromising refresh & response rates, and get a second smaller IPS monitor for the occasional image editing.
If you are going to get both a TN and an IPS, you could get a TN with lightboost now and an IPS. lightboost is what will eliminate the motion blur in games and give you motion tracking like CRTs do. Of course, the new version will make lightboost more "official" instead of a hack, so if you want to wait for that reason you can.

G-sync and lightboost are two separate features:
lightboost: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/
g-sync: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/

About the new g-sync:
With the new g-sync that tmacg55 mentioned, Nvidia will be including both lightboost and g-sync together. Lightboost will no longer be a "hack" for 2D mode, but an official feature. The overall technology will be called "g-sync" and it will have two modes: "g-sync mode" or "strobe mode" (aka lightboost). However, you will still only be able to choose one or the other, but not both! :( 
source: http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-incl...


About lightboost:
Here is what lighboost does:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vsLB/
To see how LCDs blur images, look at this on your LCD: http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking Try to follow the objects as they move left to right. This is not a response time problem, but core to the way all LCDs work.
Here are the lightboost monitors:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/#lightboo...
Note: you will want to run at 120hz (and not 60hz) so you don't get the sickening effect from flicker like CRTs had at 60Hz (remember how you had to turn CRTs above 70-80Hz to make them usable for long periods? :)  )
Here's more info: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost-...
http://pcmonitors.info/forum/topic/new-development-ligh...

About g-sync:
G-sync helps deal with low frame rates (see here: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/) and makes motion a little more smooth. (For me, personally, if I had to choose, I would much rather have lightboost than this feature. For me, getting rid of the blur is important for stuff like scrolling and strategy games. Another way to look at it is, framerates can just be fixed by getting a better video card, whereas there is no alternative solution to blurring if you don't have lightboost-like tech).

Questions to tmacg55:
1. Do you know if the new g-sync will only let you choose between lightboost or g-sync (not both at the same time)? Last I saw, it would still be that way. :(  http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-incl...
2. Take a look at this G-sync IPS. I think it doesn't have lightboost though; is this right? :(  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=113&cp_id=11307&c...
3. Apart from becoming an "official" features, do you know if there will be any changes to lightboost in the new g-sync that is worth waiting for? (unless aFatFish wants the g-sync feature instead of lightboost)


BTW, I gotta say thanks tmacg55 for bringing up the whole lightboost topic. I didn't know we were finally at a point where we could eliminate the blur properly without the 60hz eyestrain flicker or other methods that were not so good. It's great to finally know about this. :) 
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 7, 2014 2:30:26 PM

KevinAr18 said:
aFatFish said:
I may wait a couple of months, see if something comes out with Gsync (I so think nvidia should have called it Nsync haha!) which combines a high resolution without compromising refresh & response rates, and get a second smaller IPS monitor for the occasional image editing.
If you are going to get both a TN and an IPS, you could get a TN with lightboost now and an IPS. lightboost is what will eliminate the motion blur in games and give you motion tracking like CRTs do. Of course, the new version will make lightboost more "official" instead of a hack, so if you want to wait for that reason you can.

G-sync and lightboost are two separate features:
lightboost: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/
g-sync: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/

About the new g-sync:
With the new g-sync that tmacg55 mentioned, Nvidia will be including both lightboost and g-sync together. Lightboost will no longer be a "hack" for 2D mode, but an official feature. The overall technology will be called "g-sync" and it will have two modes: "g-sync mode" or "strobe mode" (aka lightboost). However, you will still only be able to choose one or the other, but not both! :( 
source: http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-incl...


About lightboost:
Here is what lighboost does:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vsLB/
To see how LCDs blur images, look at this on your LCD: http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking Try to follow the objects as they move left to right. This is not a response time problem, but core to the way all LCDs work.
Here are the lightboost monitors:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/#lightboo...
Note: you will want to run at 120hz (and not 60hz) so you don't get the sickening effect from flicker like CRTs had at 60Hz (remember how you had to turn CRTs above 70-80Hz to make them usable for long periods? :)  )
Here's more info: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost-...
http://pcmonitors.info/forum/topic/new-development-ligh...

About g-sync:
G-sync helps deal with low frame rates (see here: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/) and makes motion a little more smooth. (For me, personally, if I had to choose, I would much rather have lightboost than this feature. For me, getting rid of the blur is important for stuff like scrolling and strategy games. Another way to look at it is, framerates can just be fixed by getting a better video card, whereas there is no alternative solution to blurring if you don't have lightboost-like tech).

Questions to tmacg55:
1. Do you know if the new g-sync will only let you choose between lightboost or g-sync (not both at the same time)? Last I saw, it would still be that way. :(  http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-incl...
2. Take a look at this G-sync IPS. I think it doesn't have lightboost though; is this right? :(  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=113&cp_id=11307&c...
3. Apart from becoming an "official" features, do you know if there will be any changes to lightboost in the new g-sync that is worth waiting for? (unless aFatFish wants the g-sync feature instead of lightboost)


BTW, I gotta say thanks tmacg55 for bringing up the whole lightboost topic. I didn't know we were finally at a point where we could eliminate the blur properly without the 60hz eyestrain flicker or other methods that were not so good. It's great to finally know about this. :) 


I took a look at that IPS monitor you posted from monoprice and did not find anything on the page referring to G-Sync. Am I missing something?, if so please make me aware of it. Also, I am not not sure as G-Sync is still in alpha if you have a switch between light boost or G-sync. Eliminating blur to a complete 0% is impossible with any monitor that uses LCD because of the nature of the technology, but newer tech like lightboost is helping to reduce it. OLED displays supposedly have no blur which I'd imagine would be amazing for gaming, hope OLED is implemented in 23"-27" screen sizes this year.
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 7, 2014 5:51:36 PM

tmacg55 said:
I took a look at that IPS monitor you posted from monoprice and did not find anything on the page referring to G-Sync. Am I missing something?

Oh you are right, sorry I misread it. I saw the Zero-G and my mind must have been thinking G-sync. :) 


tmacg55 said:
Eliminating blur to a complete 0% is impossible with any monitor that uses LCD because of the nature of the technology, but newer tech like lightboost is helping to reduce it. OLED displays supposedly have no blur which I'd imagine would be amazing for gaming, hope OLED is implemented in 23"-27" screen sizes this year.

Actually, believe it or not, that is exactly what lightboost does. It eliminates blur completely (not just reduces it by a little bit). 120hz reduces blurring, but lightboost is what gets rid of it for good; it really is that big of a deal. Now you can see why I'm so excited about it; after all these years, we finally have a solution! :) 

Let me explain...
Ok, so you are aware that LCD, by default, will blur no matter the response time (even if you have <1ms response time). But, did you know OLED will also blur for the same reason? lightboost (or anything similar to it) is what fixes both LCD and OLED so they are are equivalent to a CRT. It really is the solution to the blurring problem.

Background details:
CRTs: For every frame, the CRT monitor displays an image for a very brief moment and then quickly fades back to black (off). The CRT is actually black most of the time. This means for every frame, your eye sees an image for a very brief point in time and then sees black the rest of the time between frames. However, you brain is able to fill in this "black" or "off" time with what should go there to simulate near perfect motion.
LCD and OLED: For every frame, the LCD displays an image for the ENTIRE frame. When the next frame comes along it changes and then it keeps showing that new image for the ENTIRE frame. Basically an LCD is always showing an image. However, by holding onto the same image for an entire frame and then changing, motion gets seen differently. This causes us to blur movement on LCD and OLED monitors... instead of interpreting sharp, precise movement.

Real life example: Imagine a white square moving across a black background. If you watch this square move across the black background, you will be able to see it in almost perfect sharpness as it moves on a CRT. Now, follow that same white square as it moves on an LCD (or OLED that holds an image) and the edges of the square will appear blurred; you will be unable to see a sharp edge or view the square without it being blurred (unless you stop following it).
Looks at this image:
http://scien.stanford.edu/pages/labsite/2010/psych221/p...
Imagine the white square is moving left to right. The top image is what you see on a CRT: nice sharp edge. The bottom image is what you see on an LCD or OLED that holds: the object blurs as it moves.
Or watch for yourself with this test:
Follow the spaceship as it moves left to right: http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking
You will see the background blur together. Then focus on the unmoving spaceship and the blur will go away. On a CRT, both would be very sharp and you could watch the objects move without any blurring.


So... if having mostly black between each frame is what causes CRTs to have such sharp motion, then the solution is to make LCDs and OLEDs do the same thing. This is precisely what lightboost does. It turns off the light most of the time and only turns on for a brief moment to show the current frame. This reproduces the "flicker" of old CRT monitors and gives us sharp motion like on CRTs.

Side note: this also brings back the downside of CRTs: headache inducing flicker. So, you gotta use the higher refresh rates, like 120hz and not 60hz. Microsoft actually suggests that people are negatively affected by refresh rates up to 85Hz (on CRTs): http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg4634...


OLED clarification:
Basically, if the OLED turns off most of the time just like a CRT or lightboost, then it won't have the problem... but if it holds the same image for the full frame, like an LCD, it will have the same blurring.
lightboost clarification
Technically, the solution does not require lightboost or Nvidia. The monitor could just as easily implement flicker internally and always have it turned on (or as a menu option). It in no way requires video card support at a core level.


P.S. tcmacg55, I hope this was helpful and makes you as excited as me about this. :)  The more people that know how much it helps and demand it as a feature on monitors, the better for all of us. :) 
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 9, 2014 5:30:16 PM

I just wanted to let you know about a model tmacg55 found (he told me in private message)
Asus PG278Q 27" with g-sync http://rog.asus.com/296652014/news/rog-announces-the-pg...

It's a TN with g-sync: both the lightboost and variable framerate options.
While it's not an IPS, it's supposedly some "high quality" TN. No idea how nice it might be, but it might be good enough for your use (have to wait and see).

The chances of us ending up with a 120Hz IPS + G-sync seem very low right now in the near future. Some are trying to push for IPS, but the manufacturers don't seem to be as interested as the consumers are. :( 

Credit totally goes to tmacg55 for finding this one. I wasn't sure if I should post about it here... but I just wanted to make sure you knew about this particular model tmacg55 found.
m
0
l
a b C Monitor
January 10, 2014 5:33:05 AM

KevinAr18 said:
I just wanted to let you know about a model tmacg55 found (he told me in private message)
Asus PG278Q 27" with g-sync http://rog.asus.com/296652014/news/rog-announces-the-pg...

It's a TN with g-sync: both the lightboost and variable framerate options.
While it's not an IPS, it's supposedly some "high quality" TN. No idea how nice it might be, but it might be good enough for your use (have to wait and see).

The chances of us ending up with a 120Hz IPS + G-sync seem very low right now in the near future. Some are trying to push for IPS, but the manufacturers don't seem to be as interested as the consumers are. :( 

Credit totally goes to tmacg55 for finding this one. I wasn't sure if I should post about it here... but I just wanted to make sure you knew about this particular model tmacg55 found.


Thanks Kevin, :) 

Not sure why they are not marketing this new monitor as a 144Hz, because the ASUS reps in all of the CES interviews say it can natively achieve 144Hz. Anyways... IPS does not seem likely on a G-Sync gaming monitor because of the reliability issue and PRICE! The monitor is already $800 using TN, so imagine having to pay close to over $1K if it had an IPS inside. They have to wait for the technology to mature so they can minimize the pricing options before they can offer IPS G-Sync monitors to the average consumers. In the mean time I will be buying the new ASUS G-Sync monitors regardless of their TN, but will be going with the 1080p model as I won't want to brag to people that I paid over $500 for a TN monitor, haha :D  . Going to be selling my 1440p Yamakasi Q270 close to next month.
m
0
l
January 13, 2014 3:40:24 AM

KevinAr18 said:
I just wanted to let you know about a model tmacg55 found (he told me in private message)
Asus PG278Q 27" with g-sync http://rog.asus.com/296652014/news/rog-announces-the-pg...

It's a TN with g-sync: both the lightboost and variable framerate options.
While it's not an IPS, it's supposedly some "high quality" TN. No idea how nice it might be, but it might be good enough for your use (have to wait and see).

The chances of us ending up with a 120Hz IPS + G-sync seem very low right now in the near future. Some are trying to push for IPS, but the manufacturers don't seem to be as interested as the consumers are. :( 

Credit totally goes to tmacg55 for finding this one. I wasn't sure if I should post about it here... but I just wanted to make sure you knew about this particular model tmacg55 found.


Cheers dude,

tmacg55 did also post about this monitor in one of his earlier replies in this thread - but I appreciate you double checking that I knew about it :) 

I'm going to wait for this monitor to come out as it seems it'll be as good as anything else that may or may not possibly come out in the next year or two...at least until fast refresh/response/g-sync IPS panels drop in price.

It'll be used 50% for work - of which 90% is word processing and spread sheets, 10% image editing - and 50% for gaming - where I want to be able to blame only myself and not my gear; so gaming performance is more important than the occasional image performance.

Thanks again for ensuing I knew though.

KR,

Tom.
m
0
l
May 15, 2014 1:25:42 AM

Firstly, sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I just want to give a word of warning..

I personally would avoid that Black Tune monitor. If it is multi-input I pretty much guarantee that it won't do 120hz. I bought a multi-input monitor from eBay - the Qnix True10 model - and even though it said it was doing 120hz, it was skipping every other frame. Avoid these multi-input monitors like the plague if you want overclocking. ONLY the DVI dual link ones will overclock to 120hz...

Also, they have noticeable input lag.

m
0
l
!