Mini ITX this week. Ups, downs and ideas?

kokines · Jan 13, 2014

So, I will be building a Mini-ITX this upcoming weekend, and I'm about to order everything. Just want to see what you guys think, its been a few years since my last build so, here it is:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2AAgc
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2AAgc/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2AAgc/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($179.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($59.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: MSI Z87I GAMING AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($175.49 @ Amazon)
Memory: A-Data XPG V2 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($164.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($209.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($194.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($334.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case ($76.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($82.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1572.35
Pease if you think I should switch something to save money and or get better performance let me know!

Finair14 · Jan 13, 2014

Hey there
I recently built a mini itx system with the asus gtx 770 and a bitfenix prodigy.
There are a few changes you need to implement though
first the motherboard you chose is socket 1150 whilst your cpu is 1155 so you need to buy the intel core i5 4670k instead.
Secondly you should downgrade your power supply to a 650 watt as that is more than enough for everything and there is plenty more power for overclocking as well.
You also don't need 16gb of ram and you dont need 2400mhz memory you will be absolutely fine with 8gb of 1600mhz.
Everything else looks good

kokines · Jan 13, 2014

Finair14 :

Lol, good thing you caught that CPU issue...that would have sucked. I read an article on here about the memory and they said you will have a 20% increase if you use 2133 over 1600Mhz, I will probably switch and knock it down to 8gb that should be fine right?
as for the PSU I only chose it because of the handle it has on the back and thought that was cool. I will definitely get a smaller PSU if I can find another one with the handle.
Thanks for the advice man!

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

that cpu and motherboard are not compatible. the cpu is socket 1155 while the motherboard is socket 1150. you will want to use the i5-4670k instead which is socket 1150 haswell.

instead of using the corsair h60 you could go with decent sized air. it would be better performance. i've seen people fit up to a nh-d14 in the prodigy case so size shouldnt be a huge issue but things will be tight.

not my choice of brand... but that ram should work. 2400mhz is supported by your motherboard so no worries there. 16gb is complete overkill for gaming as 2x4 (8gb) is perfectly fine for that.

the 256gb 840 pro is very nice but the average user doesnt need the pro. i'd go with the evo and save money. your choice.

be careful of the high capacity (above 1tb) hdds. they have a larger failure rate. i'm on my 5th rma of 1.5 drives which they replaced a few with 2tb which failed. i spent over $60 sending failed drives back when they only cost me $105 each in the first place. dont trust them as a backup source unless you use multiples. the 1tb and under drives seem to be rock solid though.

not a bad video card

while not my favorite case at least it is loads better than the new matx bitfenix prodigy which has a wonky airflow. i saw this case in person and i dont know if you've heard this but those loop legs and handles are plastic/rubber feeling and the whole thing is coated with a rubber finish. i thought the photos online looked much better than when i saw and played with it in person.

there isnt really a need for a 750w for a m-itx motherboard which doesnt support crossfire/sli. a 550w or 650w is mroe than enough. i'd also stick with xfx or seasonic.

your choice on dvd drive.

win7 HP 64 is on ebay for $79.99 f/s and it supports the 6th man foundation charity 100%. i went with it for recent build and it works great (its the refurbished system version but its basically the same thing as the oem version without the fancy dvd case and manual)

VolvoDoto · Jan 13, 2014

Non-overclocking build with GTX 780ti
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($243.08 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B 45.5 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($42.05 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H87N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($107.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($126.92 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($114.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB Video Card ($709.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($49.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($100.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1580.97
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-13 09:48 EST-0500)

ITX should be small, prodigy is too big for SFF enthusiast.

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

if you have the cash... stick with 2400mhz. while not as noticible of an iprovement as say 1600 over 1333 or 1066 its definitely an improvement. while not 20% (probably more like 5-7% at most) its still something. your choice. generally 1600 is the recommended lowest you can go while 1866 is optional. going higher is always better if you have the cash but not everyone does.

also keep in mind that if you spent some decent cash and bought a 2133 or higher stick which had really tight timings of lets say cas 10 if you downclocked it to 1866 or 1600 your timings would be rediculously low which also improves performance. the reason for this is because higher quality ram is used in low cas timing but high frequency mhz sticks. if you plan on overclocking heavily you will want to have decent ram

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

@volvo

if not using the prodigy then m-itx is pointless and a complete waste of money. going m-atx is a much better choice for the money if using a different case.

also why would you even suggest a 3.3ghz xeon for a homebuilt pc? its going to get terrible performance in some areas due to its low clockspeed compared with the 3.5ghz+ chips available which can be overclocked up past 4ghz perhaps close to 5ghz with lucky chips and good cooling. it would make the xeon look like a turtle.

all you did was chop up some parts to fit a 780ti in there and call it a day without really taking everything into account. also your cpu is not o/c (they DID use a z87 board and a K series cpu so what does that tell you? or at least make you guess at?) its kind of pointless to not assume they want to o/c..

are you the SFF expert? they never stated that they wanted it to be as small as possible. likely they just wanted the case and it needed m-itx.

Rammy · Jan 13, 2014

I'd mainly just reiterate stuff other people have said, but I'd say that in general 2400Mhz memory is pointless in terms of value/performance. 1600Mhz is fine for compatibility/value, and 1866Mhz is likely to be the sweet spot for performance at a sensible price. You can go higher, but the merits tend to be fairly questionable as things can start costing exponentially more. Of course, if you find the right kit at the right price, then all of that goes out of the window.

The Prodigy case has two main strengths from the cooling perspective, which is that it can fit 240mm radiator(s) and has headroom for basically any tower cooler. I use a 120mm AIO in my own, but from a performance perspective it doesn't make an awful lot of sense. In either scenario a 200/230mm front fan is worth consideration.

I can't comment a lot on how reliable larger HDDs are, but given the Prodigy case can take two 3.5" and four SSDs (even with the top cage removed) you might be better off with two smaller drives.

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

agreed. 1600 is the defacto standard while 1866 is a good upgade.

above that and things can get expensive however if you can get 2400mhz for the same or similar price (if they are on sale) then its a no-question answer of grab it up while you can.

performance of different ram sticks http://www.anandtech.com/show/6372/memory-performance-16gb-ddr31333-to-ddr32400-on-ivy-bridge-igp-with-gskill its a good read.

Rammy · Jan 13, 2014

They did a Haswell version too http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell
It's a bit more relevant, and more conclusive. TLDR version is that faster isn't necessarily...faster, and scaling is pretty application specific (as you'd expect).
Good stuff though.

kokines · Jan 13, 2014

Okay, after reading all the information you guys gave me I have updated my list. when I mentioned a 20% increase in performance i was referring to 2133Mhz over 1600Mhz from this article: http://

Other changes I made was obviously the CPU to the correct one, 650W PSU, lower model SSD and smaller HDD. Not too familiar with air CPU coolers any you guys could recommend?

UPDATED:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2ABrI
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2ABrI/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2ABrI/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($59.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: MSI Z87I GAMING AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($175.49 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($162.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($87.97 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($334.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case ($76.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($82.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1403.34
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-13 10:55 EST-0500)

Rammy · Jan 13, 2014

kokines :

That's internal graphics performance. If you use an APU then memory speed makes a huge difference as you don't have access to GDDR5 on most modern graphics cards. When you use a discreet card, not so much. That 20% becomes a couple of percent at the very most. In game, you are probably talking a 1-2fps delta between the fastest and the slowest memory, though different apps will scale differently.

For coolers, I'd be a little nervous about suggesting anything because the MSI has a CPU socket which I think is identical in position to the lower range MSI-Z87I, and that's a little too close to the graphics card slot for comfort. Anything 120mm fan based should be ok I think (Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo etc), but I'd be very nervous about any of the larger 140mm fan coolers (Noctua NH-D14 etc). You could consider changing the motherboard to either of the Asus or the AsRock options for a better CPU location, but I appreciate the MSI has some nice features.

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

how much do you plan on overclocking? if you dont plan on doing much of it at all you could go with a hyper 212 evo or perhaps something just a step up from that with a thicker heatsink or two fans.

if you plan on serious overclocking then you could go with a nh-d14 or its baby brother model. they do fit in the case although they do have clearance issues with some parts. you would need to take a look at things to see if it would fit.

see it fits...barely...

from http://www.overclock.net/t/1279693/lightbox/post/17930014/id/1002844

kokines · Jan 13, 2014

Rammy :

kokines :

That's internal graphics performance. If you use an APU then memory speed makes a huge difference as you don't have access to GDDR5 on most modern graphics cards. When you use a discreet card, not so much. That 20% becomes a couple of percent at the very most. In game, you are probably talking a 1-2fps delta between the fastest and the slowest memory, though different apps will scale differently.

For coolers, I'd be a little nervous about suggesting anything because the MSI has a CPU socket which I think is identical in position to the lower range MSI-Z87I, and that's a little too close to the graphics card slot for comfort. Anything 120mm fan based should be ok I think (Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo etc), but I'd be very nervous about any of the larger 140mm fan coolers (Noctua NH-D14 etc). You could consider changing the motherboard to either of the Asus or the AsRock options for a better CPU location, but I appreciate the MSI has some nice features.

Ahh Okay, well with that in mind then I will probably just end up getting some 1866Mhz sticks. as for the CPU cooler, I'm going to do some more research of what will work well with the board and GPU

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

or if you dont mind spending a bit more money just go with a dual radiator from nxzt (kraken) or a corsair and mount it to the top fan slots. similar performance numbers to the nh-d14 but without the bulk.

kokines · Jan 13, 2014

ssddx :

Lol, that looks a bit ridiculous.

Rammy · Jan 13, 2014

ssddx :

That requires removing the ODD though.

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

i do agree. however its a known fact that more surface area = better cooling capability. the d14 is about as big of an air cooler as you can get.

please note i said you could go with something smaller... i just provided it as a reference for a worst case scenario

kokines · Jan 13, 2014

Yea, I wont be doing any extreme overclocking.

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

yeah... it would mean removing the optical drive. which is a con. i suppose the op could co with a rear mounted 1x 140mm. thats between the two in terms of performance.

or just stick with a hyper 212 evo or one step above.. that would work perfectly fine with mild overclocks for much cheaper in price.

VolvoDoto · Jan 13, 2014

ssddx :

I prioritize performance thats why.
8 threads + gtx 780ti over i5 @ 4.5ghz + a gtx 770 anyday

"Mini ITX this week. Ups, downs and ideas?"
30L for a mini-itx? hell no, they just dont blend, if the OP is using the prodigy then m-itx is pointless and a complete waste of money. going m-atx is a much better choice for the money if using a different case.

An oced i5 will give you +5-10 fps but gtx 770 to gtx 780ti? come on man

ssddx · Jan 13, 2014

@volvo

you do realize that many games perform better on cpus with higher clocked cores over more cores right? 3.3 is nothing compared to an o/c i5 for gaming. in some tasks perhaps but not in gaming or many other functions. oh and the i5-4670k is cheaper.

yes, i think we all realize that a 780ti is a better card than a 770. if it works out in budget then yes a 780ti/290x or a 780/280x are all good options. however the op must weigh losing some other components and justify it.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/11/27/battlefield-4-performance-analysis/3

just because things are against your sense of aesthetics doesnt make them pointless. while i agree the case doesnt make an efficient use of space and there are better options available for the budget that doesnt mean that people are wrong for liking the case and going with m-itx because of it. as long as they realize that m-itx is limiting their options and accept that.

who said you couldnt have both an o/c i5 and a 780ti/290x?

its quite possible however the op would have to give up the 250gb ssd for a 120gb (which after os install and taking into account the 80% max capacity rule for trim to work right and for the drive not to have increased wear that leave you with only 70gb useable space which is a pittance for any real programs/games anymore. some games can easily be 20-30gb. of course they could install it on the secondary hard drive but normally you would install most of your favorites on your main drive. also they would be giving up some of the higher end motherboard options which isnt a big deal considering they arent going to o/c too heavy. they would still need a z87 board though but at that price level its going to just be the lower end. again, which is fine but just something to consider.

VolvoDoto · Jan 14, 2014

ssddx :

Higher clocked cores on high resolution? Here are some numbers to justify More horse power on GPU>OCed CPU
http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1158&page=6

1920 x 1080, max details, max AA, max AF fps Index
Intel Core i5-4670K 4.5G 81.6 99.51 %
Intel Core i5-3570K 4.5G 80.8 98.54 %
Intel Core i5-2500K 4.5G 81.0 98.78 %
Intel Core i5-4670K Stock 81.2 99.02 %
Intel Core i5-3570K Stock 81.6 99.51 %
Intel Core i5-2500K Stock 82.0 100.00 %

Now tell me why

Rammy · Jan 14, 2014

It's hardly a massive surprise that conventional wisdom (any modern i5 is more or less equally, and sufficiently competent for gaming) holds true with regard to CPUs.

Equally though, there is a limit to how much makes sense for graphics card spending. Bizarrely nobody, including me, bothered to ask what sort of monitor the OP will be using. If he's just using a standard 1080P monitor, then there isn't much value in a GTX780Ti, in fact there is probably a sensible budget cap of less than his original budget.

[Slightly offtopic]
On the subject of how fat the Prodigy is, it's certainly "too big" for ITX, but perhaps the conventional logic of PC building is a bit antiquated. ATX boards were necessary when everything came in the form of an expansion card (network adaptor, USB, sound card...). Rather than seeing ITX as solely a compact/portable form, we should be perhaps be recognising that for the vast majority of system builders, ITX is a very viable form factor as they will only ever want to install a single graphics card. If you come at it from this angle, then both smaller and bigger ITX cases make a lot more sense. If you want to fit water cooling, want a lot of drive bays or an oversized CPU cooler/graphics card, the Prodigy has a lot of scope. There's a reason it's so popular with modders.
It is still fat though.
[/Entirely offtopic]

kokines · Jan 14, 2014

Okay back to the OP...lol.

About to order, everything look in okay?

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($6.73 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z87I GAMING AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($175.49 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($149.00 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($144.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Video Card ($334.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case ($79.98 @ OutletPC)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($82.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1364.12
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-01-14 11:55 EST-0500)

Mini ITX this week. Ups, downs and ideas?

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