So is Kavari a Gaming threat to Intel?

mikeny · Jan 14, 2014

I've always bought Intel CPUs but I was intrigued by Kaveri when reading out it from the CES pages and Engadget. On paper it gives the i5 haswells a god run. Is AMD turning the corner and now giving Intel a real threat? Hope I didn't offend anyone who are AMD diehards. I've constantly read that Intel CPU's (i.e. Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell) perform better in gaming. I've never considered a AMD CPU but a 12 core CPU at half the price of an Intel CPU is interesting. Are APUs worth it?

maxiim · Jan 14, 2014

Are sandy, ivy, haswell not APUs?

rgd1101 · Jan 14, 2014

Kaveri is great if you can't afford a dedicated gpu.
you need to read the review better, their 12 core include both gpu and cpu.

Gaidax · Jan 14, 2014

No it is not, as a matter of fact, it's about as shitty as any other APU when it comes to CPU part.

As soon as you buy a dedicated GPU, you can toss APU out of the window and this rule includes Kaveri.

enemy1g · Jan 14, 2014

Think of it this way. APUs are decent, but never will beat a dedicated CPU and GPU. It's like an All-in-One modem/router, they're crap, but they work, and will never be better than a seperate modem and router.

Quest_Skyrim · Jan 14, 2014

First it is not a "12 core CPU" as you are saying above (or Endgaget), but a 12 compute core that is divided into 4 CPU core and 8 GPU core units within one APU. Why is this important? It is because AMD is very depending on how all the development and support will go from low level API up to general software to support all changes in this kind of architecture. It is important to make clear what is to expect from this number and 12 core is misleading in this case, as it is still 4 CPU core unit that will have to handle everyday task until there will be more support for OpenCL.

You might understand this better if you read what Anandtech wrote about this side of development within Steamroller. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k

The strong side is how these GPU core can be used for other task then only handle video and the access of memory from both CPU and GPU cores.

If you are planning to "upgrade" your video card in the near future, then I suppose a dedicated CPU is a better option from AMDs FX line or any CPU from Intels line that are within your budget. It is too early to say anything about how software will support AMDs line of hUMA, Mantle etc to make Kaveri a better choice for the future.

mikeny · Jan 17, 2014

Interesting. Just a thought

FALC0N · Jan 18, 2014

In OEM form, they are. Ninty percent of systems sold used integrated graphics, so it's a quality part there for sure.

On the enthusiast end, maybe down the line. If AMD gets traction on HSA, it could be a strong performer down the line.

lmaonade200 · Jan 18, 2014

yes because enthusiasts make up a small portion of the gaming community, and add on vocal minority on top of that, and you begin to get the sense that Kaveri's won't be as unpopular as people would have you believe

rmm03 · Jan 18, 2014

Kaveri is definitely for gaming. If u get a K model (a10-7850k) it leaves a lot of upgrade paths while giving slightly less than Haswell i5 cpu in single threaded applications and superior performance in multi threaded applications. But it takes a enthusiasts mentality to get the performance out of it. For example u need to have high end ram modules that run at 2133 or higher for the igpu to really shine and outperform most. Then overclock the hell out of it and u can have a bad ass setup for about 600$ US, maybe a Lil more but u get the idea... don't lay down on kaveri. It isn't an e series apu there's a reason why they charge 179$ for it...

Lessthannil · Jan 18, 2014

Only in GPU performance... but Kaveri's top of the line is $173. At that price, many people would buy a dGPU instead of using IGP.

It goes without saying that Haswell roflstomps the CPU Kaveri cores.

rmm03 · Jan 18, 2014

The point is for an a10-7850k( 179) you get ALMOST i5 performance cpu cores with d gpu performance as well. The i5(159) plus an equal d gpu (129) plus and Haswell compatible power supply and motherboard will be considerably more. There is no denying the sheer value of a apu over cpu / d gpu. Overall performance yes i5 has it but if u wanna spend money. Just get the i 7 than and get the gtx titan... and u have no worries. Most people don't have 2000$ to spend. Thus the reason why apu exist for people who have a budget...

Lessthannil · Jan 18, 2014

The performance of the Kaveri's CPU doesn't even come near Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge. Steamroller got rid of the multithreaded bottleneck and improved power efficency, but thats pretty much it. There is no gains in single/per core performance, which is Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller's Achilles' heel.

lmaonade200 · Jan 18, 2014

well, there is a modest improvement in single thread performance but it's offset by the lowered clock rates of the new APUs, or at least theoretically

vmN · Jan 18, 2014

Gaidax :

So you are saying that the IGP cannot compute?

Gaidax · Jan 18, 2014

vmN :

I am saying that any practical usage for iGPU disappears the moment you get a dedicated GPU that does not suck, thus Kaveri, just as Richland is simply a nice little OEM/HTPC thingie, but nothing more than that.

Honestly, it's almost a disaster really, considering all the bells and whistles. Maybe it's a PR success - seeing people really believe it competes with I5, but in reality - we got the same Richland CPU performance-wise with better GPU and some superficial technology that might become relevant in 3-4 years from now.

It is obvious that the current CPU architecture line for AMD is a dead end and they could use something NEW there instead of slightly tweaked old, but I guess they are more into SoC business now, so they don't care that much about CPU performance - more power efficiency and fluff.

FALC0N · Jan 19, 2014

Gaidax, if you think steamroller is "almost a disaster", then you didn't understand its target market to begin with.

The CPU side was disappointing on the IPC side of things. I felt a 20% IPC boost was realistic and they only did about 10%. But the GPU boost was substantial as was improvements in power draw at targeted speeds. And HSA's future remains tone seen, but that could easily change the CPU equation as well. Only time will tell on that.

The real test of steamrollers cpu side will be the full node at 22nm which is cpu optimized. May be a better performer than it appears in this incarnation.

jaguarskx · Jan 19, 2014

FALC0N :

That substantial improvement only applies to the A8-7600 though. The A10-7850k only showed an average of around a 10% improvement in performance.

However, it is nice to see that Global Foundry was able to increase the transistor density in AMD's APUs. While both Richland and Kaveri APUs are almost the same size, Kaveri packs in around 85% - 90% more transistors. Now the two of them just needs to reduce power consumption a bit further so that the clockspeeds can be increased while maintaining the current power envelop or lower.

It would be interesting to see the mobile version of Kaveri, because it is there that AMD will compete with Intel in the entry level laptop market. Both Kaveri and Broadwell should raise the bar of integrated graphics performance for people who cannot afford or do not wish to spend a lot of money for a laptop capable of playing games to a certain degree.

odditey · Oct 13, 2015

its all about the ram with an apu an a10 7850k with r7 performs quite well once u overclock it although out of the box it is pretty modest and the igpu isn't a waste buy apu oc the ******* outta it then when u get dedicated gpu turn off igpu giving u more headroom for faster oc its a system u can build in pieces

Edited for language since minors do visit this site.

odditey · Oct 13, 2015

intel hd graphics suck compared to amd's igpu

jaguarskx · Oct 13, 2015

Depends on what price point you are looking because at certain price points, especially in the laptop market, Intel offers better performance than AMD. Take for example the low end A8-6410 / A8-7410 APUs used in $400 - $500 laptops. The integrated Radeon R5 (Beema / Carrizo) graphics core is less powerful than an Intel HD 4000. You can buy a Core i3 / Core i5 CPU in that price range with an Intel HD 4400 / 5500 graphics core which is more powerful.

In terms of the most powerful integrated graphics core... Intel actually has the most powerful iGPU, the Intel Iris Pro 6200. It's performance is pretty close to a nVidia 940m, far more powerful than any AMD integrated GPU, but they come with specific high end Core i7 CPU in laptops that costs at least $900.

And since the last post was back in January 2014, I am locking this thread. No point in resurrecting an old thread even if Halloween is this month. If you want to discuss iGPU performance between AMD and Intel, you can always start a new thread.

So is Kavari a Gaming threat to Intel?

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