OCing, how important is it?

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JOOK-D
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noise

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You haven't stated your purpose but broadly speaking, it is not as important as it used to be.

Generally speaking any modern CPU, particularly those you are considering, will not hold back (bottleneck) any other component (e.g. GPU). That said some people like the option of being able to overclock when their rig starts to show its age, equally some people just like the hobby of the overclocking itself. "How fast can it go" rather than "why I need it to go that fast".

Personally I think it has lost a lot of relevance - also don't forget to factor in the aftermarket cooler to your costs, though you may, like me, purchase one anyway for noise or other reasons.
 
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Gaidax

Gaidax

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Not important, The apparent 20$ difference is very misleading, because you also will need a Z-series motherboard and aftermarket cooler, as well.

This is the reason I got I7-4770 and saved me like 100$ on the K thing and Z-series motherboard altogether.

Realistically you get about 10% more performance really, because any more than that requires very particular setups and much more expensive parts.
 
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mc962

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Normally it will go up to 3.4 GHz. If you have adequate cooling (and are not on power saver settings) then Turbo Boost is allowed and the cpu sort of overclocks itself up to 3.8 Ghz, (the 4670k goes to 3.8, i believe the 4770k might go to 3.9). For example, I have a 4670k and because I have a cooler that can handle it and well ventilated case my temperatures don't get to high. The processor generally sits somewhere around 3.74 GHz if I am not on any windows power saving settings.

Overclocking would allow you to go above the max limit that intel set for the cpu, generally as high as you can keep things cool and stable (although I believe at some point voltage would fry the cpu, but usually the heat would kill it first I think). You could overclock the cpu to as high as you can keep it cool, like 4.0, 4.2, 4.5, even 5.0 ghz if you get a good chip (although 4th gen has heat issues getting that high
 
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Deathwing777

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Thanks for your input, that really helps me out. How do you like your i5-4670k? Would you recommend upgrading from the i5-4670 to the k version?

 
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Deathwing777

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Roughly 1GHz over the base clock, but only .4 GHz over the boost (3.8GHz). Is .4 GHz that big of a change? Basically is .4 GHz worth the extra $100? (since you have to get a Z87 motherboard, instead of a H87; the K series I'm looking at; and a aftermarket cooler for the CPU)
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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That's up to you. Yes, it's not that much over the turbo clock, I know. I'd rather get a Xeon than a locked i5 though - for around the price of an i5 4670 you could get a Xeon 1230v2 (or a Haswell equivalent) which is essentially an i5 + hyperthreading and without an iGPU (which you won't be using anyway with a dedicated graphics card).
 
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Deathwing777

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Thanks for the help you're giving (you answered some of my questions in another thread).
Yet, I'm a little confused now. Could you provide a link to what you're talking about? I don't know much about Xeon.
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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3570: http://ark.intel.com/products/65702/intel-core-i5-3570-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3_80-ghz
Xeon 1230v2: http://ark.intel.com/products/65732/

They cost around the same (at least in the UK) except the Xeon comes with hyperthreading, resulting in 4 cores 8 threads compared to the 3570s 4 cores 4 threads. The hyperthreading won't have an impact in most games (possibly newer ones, BF4, Crysis 3, maybe Watch dogs) but would help with multitasking/productivity apps. And it's only 100 MHZ slower, which isn't noticeable.

The Xeon is more comparable in performance to an i7 of the same architecture - this Xeon in particular would be comparable to an i7 3770. It's cheaper because it's marketed as a server CPU and doesn't have an integrated GPU, which is disabled anyway if you're using a dedicated graphics card.
 
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Deathwing777

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JOOK, I liked you five minutes ago. Now I hate you because my brain is exploding with all this knowledge. Honestly, it's quite stressful. What you suggest is a great idea. Yet, I don't know how great it is in comparison to what I was already planning. I guess the question really comes down to future-proofing. Will games really take advantage of multithreading? Time to do more research! Seriously, though, thanks for all the help you've given me. I've very grateful! And I don't hate you.
 
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mc962

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I like my 4670k, havent had any issues with it and I rarely do enough to stress it seriously (as in it takes what I throw at it very well). Whether you want to return it or not is up to you, depending on your desire to overclock.

Personally I wished I had known more about xeon when I was building, chances are I would have considered it seriously compared to my 4670k, mainly for the reasons listed above. While I have the appropriate hardware I don't actually overclock and don't plan to for a little while as I don't have the time to do the research to figure it out at the moment. That, and I don't have anything that needs the power of an overclock. All of my games run fine, my video editing is modest, and I don't really do anything that, at this time, needs the extra overclocking power. In the end it's your decision:
Xeon; no overclocking, lack of iGPU (which you won't use), hyperthreading making it similar to i7. And i think they might be slightly better quality due to being server cpu, but find someone else to back that up first
4670k: overclocking, igpu, no hypherthreading (so it's just a plain quad core i5)

In the end they are both great, high powered processors, it just depends on what you need out of them
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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Really? I hate me! :lol: Doing a compulsive amount of research before a purchase leaves me tearing my hair out, and yet I still do it.

It's difficult to predict the future but it seems games are increasingly using multithreading. If you're not interested in overclocking then I'd say that the Xeon is the best choice. If you're not planning to do anything other than gaming (productivity apps etc.) then an unlocked intel i5 would be great since you can overclock it for the raw power, but you'd be spending more on the mobo and cooling; you just need to balance and prioritise. Remember that neither would be a slouch at either tasks as these are both somewhat high-end modern CPUs, it's just that one will be better than the other in some tasks. In any case, I wouldn't get a locked i5.

And you're welcome, I'm here to help (and be an asshat at the same time).
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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Correct. The Xeons are designed to be more stable at their stock clocks, as they're intended for prolonged usage. The lack of an iGPU also means less heat output. You summarised it nicely.
 
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Lessthannil

Lessthannil

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Don't feel pressured to get -k series parts. You have to look at where you are spending your $.
Getting a -K CPU over its base model alone costs $20 or more. You then have to get a Z87 motherboard, which will add at least $20 if you also want something decent over say H87.

Thats $40 just for OCing. That $40 can be spent on a new CPU for when you do need a new one.
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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BTW I just found this:
"The Xeon E3-1230v2, is limited to these maximum turbo multipliers based on how many cores are active.

1 core - 37
2 cores - 36
3 cores - 35
4 cores - 34"

Not sure as to it's validity, I'll try to do some more research. That's the speeds a Xeon will reach a t 100% load based on how many cores are active. It might apply to all locked intel CPUs. Anyone know anything about it?
 
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devilgodspider

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I think Overclocking is still useful, I'll explain myself properly.

Let's say a cpu costs 230$ and another costs 190$ (same brand, architecture, series, etc. But the model is different) let's say I have to choose between the two and the performance margin isn't really that high for the bucko, if both are overclockable, you will definetily take the 190$ one then, why?
because you can easily hit better performance with a 40$ cooler and overclock it.
That, or you can see overclocking as a way of delaying the time to upgrade, and if that isn't enough, well then you get a cpu cooler for all your cpus from then onward. And even if that isn't enough? strip the cooler mount and turn into a case fan.

Case closed Watson :p
hope this helps
 
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devilgodspider

devilgodspider

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It applies at least to all non-k i5 processors, I have an image explaining that on a thread of mine, sec, putting here on the edit...

EDIT:
Sorry, this seems to apply to all non-k i5's and i7's
lTeiSUZ.jpg

Credit for the image goes to Sakkura http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/community/profile-551379.htm
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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Correct. After some research I've found out some stuff.

i5 non-K's can achieve the clock speeds above.

The Xeon's however have a completely locked multiplier, not even a limited one like the i5's. They will normally run at 3.7GHz on Cores 1&2 and 3.5GHz on Cores 3&4, under full load 3.5GHz all round. However if the motherboard supports MCE (Multi-Core Enchancement I believe) you can have all cores run at 3.7GHz at full load, though not all motherboards do support this. I would only get a motherboard with MCE support. The only way it seems to be possible to OC a Xeon is through BLCK, many get stability issues after 103 and some exceptional ones may be able to achieve 108, which would result in an OC of about 3.8 I believe.

The locked i5's can reach slightly above 4 and the Xeons can reach 3.7 with the right motherboard. The Xeon has hyperthreading, so between it and a locked i5 I'd still say it's a clear winner. Between a Xeon and an i5 k series is where the challenge comes in - more potential gaming speed, or productivity speed; having said that, some games are now supporting the hyperthreading of the Xeon. Difficult choice.

The crappy TIM in IB and Haswell chips mean that even with a k series chip it's a bit of a lottery as to whether you'll get your chip to pass 4.2 anyway. Also the more expensive Z87 motherboard will have to be factored in too.
 
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devilgodspider

devilgodspider

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I think the Xeon is an awesome processor, but if you plan to overclock, you'll have to go with the i5 3570K or (if it's cheaper, because where I live the 2500K is actually more expensive than the 3570K....) get the 2500K, good cpu for the money. But of course, you'll lose on the hyperthreading capability and get stuck with only 4 cores of performance.
Or you can always just give the finger to hyper-threading and get a FX-8350/8320 with a custom cooler so it gets at the same price as an i5 3570K and just overclock it accordingly.

Did I already say OCing is still important?
It always depends on what you're aiming to do with the build and your budget, 9/10 times it's important and good to have overclock capability.
 
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JOOK-D

JOOK-D

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Yeah I think the 2500K is more expensive everywhere.

As for the FX thing I think I said it on your thread already that I believe that single-threaded performance will still be necessary for quite a few years to come. Even some games coded specifically for PC don't use more than 4 cores/threads. And the i5s at stock can match an FX in multi-threaded games, not to mention their OC scales better. Having said that, the FXs (esp. 8320) are ridiculously cheap for the performance you can get out of them in some apps/games (or even in Linux in general).

If only the Xeons were unlocked, huh :lol: Or the 4770k priced a little lower, but we all know that's not going to happen.
 
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Deathwing777

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First off let me say THANK YOU SO MUCH guys for your time and answers. This thread has been more productive than I thought. I am so grateful.

I'm going to respond where I feel I need to, and of course (most likely) will ask questions. :D So, be prepared for double, triple post :(
 
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