Update query; from ATI Radeon Xpress 200 to............??

mikey100tv · Jan 18, 2014

Hi, everyone.

I've recently inherited an HP/Compaq Presario SR1619UK desktop PC, approx vintage early 2006. It has an AMD Athlon 64-bit 3200+ CPU, running at 2 Ghz; currently 1 Gb of RAM, shortly to become 3 Gb; and for graphics, it has the old ATI Radeon Xpress 200 integrated chipset.....and is running the 32-bit version of Windows XP Home Edition, 2003.

Now, I'm in my early 50's, and consequently, my computing career started off with the good old Commodore 64; still, to my mind, the best home computer OF the early 1980's. I've been using a Dell Inspiron laptop until very recently, which I had for nearly 10 years, but it was developing MAJOR issues with the USBs..! I've only become interested in the 'techie' side of things in recent months, so please bear with me...I'm still a bit new at this.

I've been reading your forums about graphics cards and the like for a few hours earlier this evening, and I'm getting the impression that the Xpress 200 chipset is NOT that reliable. Now, this computer has been sitting idle (unused) for the last five years or so, which means it probably hasn't had that much use. My question to you experts out there is this:-

IF the chipset SHOULD fail (for whatever reason), is it possible to disable it in the BIOS, and hence install a halfway-decent graphics card into one of my 3 spare PCI-Express slots...and drive my graphics that way?

Any advice from ANYBODY on the site would be much appreciated. I have somewhat of a limited income, so I don't want to go mad; bear in mind that I do NOT want this for gaming, just good-quality photo-editing (photography being my main hobby) so we're talking mainly about static screenwork here...primarily Adobe's CreativeSuite. I just want a serviceable, low to mid-range card (I understand these things CAN go up to some SILLY prices!); my budget is £100UK, or approximately $160US.

Who can give a tech-savvy 'old codger' some help with this?

woltej1 · Jan 18, 2014

Yes, when you install a "discrete" card, you also install software called graphics drivers for that card. This software tells your computer to use the card over the integrated chip so you usually don't have to mess with bios to get it to work properly. An amd radeon hd 7750 is the most you can go power wise.

mikey100tv · Jan 18, 2014

Well, thank you for coming up with an answer so quickly! So' if I understand you correctly (I AM very new to all the 'techie' stuff), when you install a dedicated, or discrete graphics card to replace an integrated chipset, the card will automatically install it's own drivers to replace those for the chipset...is that correct? Sort of like the way that any USB device will install ITS own drivers, under the'plug-and-play' protocol?

I shall be MORE than happy to take that route if it's going to be THAT simple. Thanks again.

woltej1 · Jan 18, 2014

No, it will not perform to its full potential until you download it from the proper website, it would be AMD if you go with a 7750. The process of installing a new card involved deleting all old drivers (you can find these by going under uninstall a program in control panel and anything nvidia or AMD has to go.), you then turn everything off, install the new card and power back on with video cables plugged into the card. You should get at least a crappy resolution display, enough to navigate to the website and download. Once downloaded just run the software and it'll take care of the rest. It is more like a suite of software which is why it is more complicated than plug and play.

LAOD159 · Jan 18, 2014

You have to download the gpu driver yourself from ATI website if you are going with an ATI card. Similarly, if you are going with a Nvidia card, you download its driver from the Nvidia website.

woltej1 · Jan 18, 2014

Your computer is pretty old so I'm kind of worried about the power supply in it, do you happen to know how much it is? You can go lower than a 7750 power wise since it is probably more than what you need and save some cash.

mikey100tv · Jan 18, 2014

I CAN tell you, from a brief inspection of the case label on the back, that the power supply pulls 6 amps, and outputs 3.2 amps. To be any more specific than that, I shall have to search out original documentation for the old girl, since I inherited her 'as is'. I can also tell you that it's certainly the coolest-running computer I've yet owned. I use CPUID's HWMonitor, and according to that, the core averages between 20C and 25C...and the case is always almost cold to the touch...I don't think heat buildup will be an issue, but I agree with you about the power supply; I shall have to do a bit more research into that, if necessary. Do these GPU cards draw their power through the PCI Express socket...or do they require a separate power supply from the motherboard, in the same way that the fans do?

Remember, I'm mainly after a reasonably-priced card that will give me good results on static photo-editing...NOT video graphics; I'm definitely not after top-of-the-range stuff here, nor anywhere near it...certainly not anything that would require a 'juicy' power supply...

woltej1 · Jan 18, 2014

I recommended the 7750 because it is the most powerful you can get while still only getting power from the PCI slot. Anything higher you need to also use a cable directly from the PSU. I'm hoping your PSU is somewhere near 300W, but i won't even be close to surprised if it is closer to 200.

mikey100tv · Jan 18, 2014

That's OK; I can appreciate that. I've only had this thing since Sunday, so I'm still learning about it!

Will do a bit more research & see if I can find some original documentation on HP's website. Shall have to get back to you tomorrow (if that's OK)...I'm turning in for the night. Many thanks for your help so far..!

mikey100tv · Jan 19, 2014

Now then; researching this thing, I can't find power supply info for it ANYWHERE; HP's support website is very good in most respects (way better than Dell's offering; theirs is next to useless), but that's one thing they don't seem to cover. So I've posted on the HP forums...hopefully someone on there will have the information I need, or at least point me in the direction of a link (or something) where I can look it up for myself.

Looking on one or two of the graphics card sites, I see the 7750 pulls about 45-48W; doesn't sound like that much...or am I only getting part of the picture here?

I've done a bit more poking around in HP's support site, and have found that it's got a total of 4 PCI slots; three standard, and one PCI-E x 16, apparently specifically FOR graphics cards...is that good, or bad?

LAOD159 · Jan 19, 2014

PCI-E x16 is good enough for hd 7750. Check this forum for hd 7750 power consumption: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/384300-33-7750-power-requirement-question

woltej1 · Jan 19, 2014

45-48W is the most it will ever pull, I doubt it would ever pull that much with the applications you're using it for. It will say on the power supply itself what its out put is, you don't have to take it out, but if you undo the screws holding it in you should be able to move it around enough to see a big sticker on it somewhere.

mikey100tv · Jan 26, 2014

Hi again, woltej.

Sorry to be so long getting back to you on this; it's a case of fitting it in around 1001 other things to do!

I've got the case open at the moment, 'cos I'm in the middle of investigating a boot-up problem, and have to set the RTC data 'jumper' to a different position so I can clear my BIOS settings...

You DID ask me about the power supply; it's a BESTEC ATX-300-12Z, supplying 300w... I believe that's the information you requested. Any help?

Mike.

woltej1 · Jan 26, 2014

Yea, that should be good enough to power any graphics card drawing power only off the board, such as the 7750.

mikey100tv · Jan 27, 2014

Hallo there, woltej.

Fair enough; that's good to know. I was looking on AMD's site night before last, and was reading their specs & reviews, and stuff. They say 400w absolute minimum; somebody else on this forum (I followed the link from one of the replies above), was saying that for the kind of output I've got, I ought to be looking more at the 6570...what's your view on that one?

Also, it was saying that I would need the 2.1 version of the PCIE x 16 slot; between you and me, old son, I don't have a clue which one I've got. I take it if I was to install it in an older bus, that it wouldn't work properly?

Mike.

woltej1 · Jan 27, 2014

between the cpu and GPU on your system they pull around 100W during max stress. Account for all your peripherals and the total system power at max stress shouldn't break 200W. Your PSU is rated for 300W, which it will never actually provide. Accounting for inefficiencies in the PSU and the quality of it, it should at least give you 200W of performance. The recommended wattage is always very safe from manufacturers as they don't want blow back if they recommend too low of a wattage. An upgrade will give you more stable and clean power though with that being said, so if you would like to upgrade that then http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151076 is a good option on a budget.

The advice for the 6570 isn't bad as your CPU is a single core and would be matched well performance wise with 6570. the 7750 is just the highest performance for your scenario. A 6570+power supply wouldn't be a bad option instead of a 7750.

Don't worry about the PCIE issue, it is all backwards compatible, so you could plug a modern pcie 3.0 card in there and it will work. You also won't see a performance hit with using a 6570 or 7750 in a pice 1 slot.

mikey100tv · Jan 30, 2014

Excellent, old son; that's brilliant advice...just what I was looking for. Yes, I DO need to bear in mind that I have an older, single-core processor; but between you & me, it's such a vast improvement on the old Northwood-128 Celeron I've got in my Inspiron laptop (which is even older than this one, and STILL works perfectly), that I don't mind at all if I end up using something less than the highest-rated card for my power supply!

Thanks very much indeed.

Mike.

As an aside (purely for 'geek' information, you understand!), I've just done a full-load power test on the PSU...and it's currently outputting between 278 and 282 watts as of this moment in time; that's less than 10% degradation, which for an nearly 10-yr old unit is not too shabby!

While I think of it; that price on the PSU is pretty reasonable. $45US is like, what...about £29/30UK? Any ideas on a price for the 6570? (Honestly, I get confused on the graphics card sites...I just can't navigate my way round them AT ALL!) :pt1cable:

mikey100tv · Jan 30, 2014

Hi again, woltej.

Silly me; no need to have asked you that last question!
Just had a nose round the newegg site, and there it is; about the same price...$45US. So if I can uprate the PSU and the video graphics for round the £60UK mark, I shall be a very happy bunny indeed.

And then, I take it, once it's all installed.....I just go to the AMD site and download the drivers & install them...and that's it? Job done? No messing about in BIOS? *Whew! Thank GAWD for THAT!!!*

Mike.

woltej1 · Jan 30, 2014

Yes, usually I'd like to have you install the previous drivers beforehand, but being as you only use integrated at the moment I don't want to risk some weird complication and you not getting a display. So just swap out the parts and turn it on then go to the amd website. You usually don't ever have to mess with BIOS when updating a graphics card unless you're having some real difficulties.

mikey100tv · Feb 2, 2014

Hi, woltej.

I'm afraid that's the curse of everything being built-in everywhere you turn these days! If I had a separate card at the moment that WOULD make perfect sense; less aggro at swap-over time.

It's gonna be 2-3 weeks before I get around to doing this, possibly a month; I've gotta be away for the next couple of weeks, so won't have a chance to do anything about it until I get back. I may need to call on your advice when I do...that OK?

Mike.

mikey100tv · Feb 3, 2014

Hi, woltej.

Well, I've gone & done it; I 've bought myself an HD 6570...it's the Asus version, but Googling it still brings up the description of 'Radeon HD 6570', so I guess that IS the same item!

Now then; would I be OK to go ahead and install it with the existing power supply? Do I HAVE to uprate the PSU for it to work properly?

I don't know whether I need to download the software for it, anyway; it comes supplied with an installation CD that's got the VGA driver software on it...or will that only give me the basic screen resolution that you mentioned before? I've visited the Asus site, and downloaded the most up-to-date driver software they've got for it, so...is that all I need? Install the card, then run the software...and touch wood, it SHOULD all work?

I'm not in any hurry to install it; I'd rather wait until I've got all the necessary software AND advice that I need before proceeding with the installation!

Mike.

woltej1 · Feb 3, 2014

Radeon HD 6570 is the GPU itself while ASUS makes the cooler and a couple other parts on it.

At 300W your PSU SHOULD be able to power the thing, but it is old and I have no idea what kind of stuff that thing has seen so it could be on it's dying breath. The PSU is one of the only components that when it fails it can take down multiple other parts with it. So for $40 or so, I would upgrade it to a 400-450W supply. Search for corsair ones, they seem to have the best deals, at least in the US, while also offering acceptable quality.

That CD that comes with the card has all the needed drivers to get the card to work properly, but those are almost always outdated and should be upgraded so you'd have to go through an uninstall and reinstall right away where I find just going to the website easier. Instead of downloading stuff from ASUS, get it from AMD as they are the GPU and software creators.

Whenever you update a graphics driver you should always uninstall the previous version otherwise conflicts and problems occurr every now and then.

mikey100tv · Feb 4, 2014

Hi, woltej (is that an acronym for 'voltage'?)

I looked at the Seasonic PSU you mentioned, but of course you're probably in the States, so I'm better off looking on the UK versions of the sites!

I also need one with an end mounted fan, rather than the top-mounted one illustrated; so I think this might suit my needs better:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seasonic-400W-SS-400ES-80mm-fan-PS-2-ATX-power-supply-PC-computer-Industrial-PSU-/281081589446?pt=UK_Computing_PowerSupplies_EH&hash=item4171c4aec6

Like I said, I'm not in a hurry to do this; I'd sooner do it once, do it properly, and be done with it (lol)...

So I need the AMD drivers, yes? I did wonder if I'd got the right version almost as soon as I'd downloaded the Asus one!

Okay, then. Bear with me. My main problem is going to be installing the thing. I understand you need to push it squarely down into the slot (just like with RAM sticks); but my problem is with the mounting brackets. They're supposed to be on the inside of the case...mine appear to be on the OUTSIDE. Any reason for that?

Mike.

woltej1 · Feb 5, 2014

Well I don't know how your case is exactly constructed, but it's not a big deal if the output part of your card doesn't match nicely with the case as long as it still fits. Your card isn't heavy so it doesn't need the extra support of the brackets, but all that stuff is pretty standard as even though sometimes hp or other makers will custom make parts, they never custom makes cards.

That PSU seems fine if that's the style you want.

You are getting an AMD card and need the AMD drivers.

mikey100tv · Feb 6, 2014

Hi, woltej.

Okay...it's all sounding good so far. Now, then; I've got one more question for you...and I feel I REALLY should have asked this first, as it's the most important one.

How can I find out exactly which version of the PCI-e connector I've got?

Looking on the motherboard, it merely shows PCI-EXPRESS x 16 next to the slot.
Hp's info page for the motherboard simply lists the same; no version.
MSI won't even admit to the board's existence (probably because they made it under licence, and it's therefore HP's problem to provide support).

I have a nasty suspicion this all means that it's an early version 1.0.; I know you said a while back that they're backwards compatible, and according to the research I've done, that's correct...but ONLY as far back as version 1.1, which can be made to work with software tweaks. Versions 1.0, and 1.0a, are NOT compatible. Have a look at this:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-Express#PCI_Express_1.0a

Have a look in the 'History & Revisions' section, if you would, please. I know it says the manufacturers provide BIOS tweaks as far back as PCI-e 1.1, but... I confess, I'm getting a tad out of my depth here! (lol)

Thoughts??

Mike.

Update query; from ATI Radeon Xpress 200 to............??

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