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Install new Hard Drive with windows 8.1. Read enough horror stories.

Tags:
  • Chipsets
  • Clean Install
  • Windows XP
  • Drivers
  • Dell
  • BIOS
  • Windows 8
Last response: in Windows XP
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January 26, 2014 9:34:22 PM

Hi,

I just can't read any more horror stories. Please help. I have a Dell Dimension 8400 Intel Pentium 4 Processor 630 w/HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB), 64-bit, 3GB DDR2 SDRAM. Running 160GB XP sp3, BIOS A04.

(Was WME until it sat too long without updating, so I downloaded the full XP sp3 from Windows this year).

Only used for first few years since purchase in 2005. Daily use is Dell Inspiron 9400 Laptop purchased 2006. Not sure if laptop is worth upgrading. I can't afford new ones. Disabled and decked these two out to last when I was working.

I need to install a new WD Blue SATA 1TB HDD with Windows 8.1 full version with 32 or 64-bit discs. Crucial.com scan recommended the extra 2GB update included above and this HD. The cable is arriving tomorrow from Monoprice. Love your site too by the way!

I believe I have to initialize, format and or partition the drive (WD recommends only one partition).

The system does allow for 2 drives and would like to use the old 160 GB for backup since I have read it is not a good idea to use as a dual boot with XP on it.

I plan to backup data files from the old drive and disconnect internally until the Windows 8.1 installs correctly on the new primary. I wish it were that easy. My main concerns are:

Do I somehow download hardware drivers for Windows 8.1 since the hardware is Dell OEM and quite old? Dell always recommends a new system.

When, hopefully, the install is complete, do I then connect and format the old drive for backup only, as long as I install in secondary slot and set Bios to boot from primary?

My major concerns are the hardware drivers:

VideoCard: ATI 128MB PCI Express x16 Radeon X300 SE (DVI/VGA/TV-out)

Sound Card: Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS (D) Card w/Dolby 5.1, and IEEE 1394 Dell 5650 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System w/Subwoofer

Display: Dell 19inch Flat Planel Display E193FP

Also, should I upgrade the BIOS?

Please let me know if I missed anything to be concerned about. I am sorry it is so long, but I did want you to have all the details.

So, what would you do to make this a smooth transition? If that is possible.

Thanks,
Cheryl

More about : install hard drive windows read horror stories

January 26, 2014 9:57:30 PM

The biggest problem I see, where are you going to get win 8 drivers for a 9 year old P4.

Check the Dell sight, you won't find any, for 7 either, Vista driver might work with 7, but Dell has to have them and I doubt that also.

I understand no money, but some thing just cant be done.

I still have a few computers running that old, and older, but I run them on Linux as they have the drivers, and I don't need Dell.
Same goes for an old Gateway I"m typing on now, with 64bit Ubuntu.

This Gateway is probably the same age as your Dell, but the last drivers Gateway issued were for Vista.

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a b * Windows 8
January 26, 2014 10:26:49 PM

do not,and i mean do not,install win8 on this machine.you will be opening yourself up for a world of heartaches.windows 7 is your best bet here.drivers will be a nightmare with win8.
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January 27, 2014 7:37:51 AM

Hi Millwright and Aldan,
Thanks for responding so quickly. It looks like my main concern with the lack of drivers is a bigger problem than I had hoped.
I have Windows 8.1 Full version and a new hard drive. I do plan to install a non-windows operating systems for my old and very used Laptop. However, my main programs will only run on Windows.

So my next question is, if I attempt to install Windows 8.1 on my desktop, on a new drive and it is not successful, can I just put the old XP 160GB drive back in? This is where my knowledge of hardware is seriously lacking. Will the attempt to install it change anything on the motherboard or...? In other words, what do I have to lose?

My graphics and sound cards are compatible since they were major upgrades when I ordered them. What other drivers would I need besides these and the monitor? I have read that the Dell Dimension 8400 will run Windows 8. I just can't give up before I start, especially since I have to have a working computer with Windows and I have no choice but to work with what I have, whether the Windows Advisor can be trusted or not. It says it will run it.
Thank you for your advice, I do appreciate all the advice I can get.
Cheryl

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January 27, 2014 8:01:31 AM

Nothing to lose, become a geek. Almost everything is reversible.
I think the chip set driver is the only one you can't get around

Yes, you can just put the old hard drive back and it will run.

I suspected the video, and sound might be newer, but you still, have to go to the Creative, and the AMD sight, and see if they have drivers for 8.

I haven't installed monitor drivers in 20 years, do they still exist.
The motherboard has a chip set driver, probably on-board LAN.
Not many but probably needed.
It will run without a chip set driver BUT how well. USB probably won't work without it. You can get an expansion card for USB

You can replace the onboard LAN with a currant card, if you have an expansion slot free.

That just leaves the chip set, the chip that runs the mother board.

Even if you had all the drivers, a P4 might not be able to run 8. Most people say it won't.

It won't hurt to try, as long as you don't delete anything in the original drive.



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January 27, 2014 1:22:08 PM

Thanks Millwright.

Timed out. Lost reply. Will try to re-type later. Forgot to copy/paste. Where do they go?
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January 27, 2014 9:47:31 PM

Thanks Millwrite for giving me some hope! Since I am a Geek in Training, I did have to lookup what a Chipset driver was and did get a good explanation from wiseGEEK. I can see where this could be quite a challenge, but since I have nothing to lose and much to gain, I will go for it. Hey, if it works for me, it can help others.

I did have my Dell Dimension customized when I ordered it in 2005. So the Graphics and Sound cards are 9 years old too. The Graphics card and Processor were considered "Cutting Edge Technology" way back then.

The advantage that I may have is that I still have room for expansion. I have both a PCI Express x1 slot and a PCI slot available. At the time Dell included the PCI Express x1, it left quite a few PC owners scratching their heads wondering what they would ever need it for since so few options were available. Now there are so many options for this slot that I am hoping it will come in handy for me down the road. Maybe?

I am glad that I saved everything relating to the 8400 in a folder. I did find something referring to the monitor driver which may have something to do with it being the Windows Media Edition. When I did the complete Windows XP sp3 download, I didn't do a complete install of all the drivers from my original resource discs. I do have something in the schematics called a "clear CMOS jumper" and since the name scares me, I don't intend to go near it.

I am guessing that my first step would be to learn about the Intel 925X Express or the 925XE Express Chipset and do some driver searching on the Dell Forum for any 8400 drivers that work in Windows 7 or 8.

Thank you for all of your valuable information. The cable came today and had I not posted here, I would probably be tearing my hair out by now.

Thanks again,
Cheryl
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a b \ Driver
a b * Windows 8
January 28, 2014 12:06:09 AM

Now you're a geek in the making, another alternative is to keep your old XP system by making a fresh installation into a Virtual Machine within a Linux system.
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January 28, 2014 6:55:07 AM

Just a little on the CMOS jumper.
All that dose it set the BIOS to default, or basic settings.
My guess is if you have never been in the BIOS, it is already at the default settings.

Good luck.
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January 28, 2014 8:02:37 PM

Thanks Saga Lout,
I am seriously interested in the sound of that for my Dell Inspiron 9400 Laptop. I have no experience and very little knowledge of Linux. But when you say I can "keep your old XP system by making a fresh installation into a Virtual Machine within a Linux system" YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION! I can't put both irons in the fire just yet. Though I really would like some more info on that route.

First, the Dell Dimension 8400 Desktop: I do need to go with Windows for my programs to run and with the new drive and software, it is at least worth a shot. It is a great system that runs like new.
Thanks Mullwrite, I am not afraid of the CMOS jumper anymore.

This is my question now as a Geek in training. After backing up my data files, should I just pull the working old drive, replace it with the new WD 1TB Blue, try to install Windows 8.1 Full version and just see where it goes? Or should I try to find some of the old driver updates first. If I can download to a flash drive on this laptop, do I need the desktop for the drivers prior to Windows 8.1 install?

I doubt Dell wants me to succeed because it means less sales. That is my cynical side at work. Sorry. But as Mullwrite says, what do I have to lose if I keep my 160GB drive intact.
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January 28, 2014 10:22:07 PM

The system will install, and run, and as long as you have a working network card, you can then go online, and down load the other drivers.

You might want to see if Dell has a Vista driver for the network card first.
I wouldn't use a flash drive, as USB might not be working, until you find drivers for that.

As long as you have the laptop, and it has a burner, you can use that to get drivers as you go.


When you go to the Dell sight, use your service tag number, and it will get you to your exact machine

You can do it manually, by entering the model number, but the Service Tag will give you an actual as built configuration.
It will be a little quicker.
The driver list should be the same either way.
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a b \ Driver
a b * Windows 8
January 29, 2014 12:08:10 AM

More on the Linux VM in a moment but first, to reinforce what millwright is saying about your Service Tag. You could go to Dell now in either system and see whether drivers are available for any of the newer versions - Vista, 7 or 8, before taking the plunge. While it's nice to keep older stuff out of landfill sites, there does come a time when a PC has come to its end.

When they come thrugh my business, I clean them up, put Linux in and take them to th elocal Freecycle centre. You'd be surprised how many folk with only a few pounds to spend, buy old PCs in there and go away with a usable machine.

The VM option is complex to set up using free software but a little easier with a paid-for system. The Linux operating system is free so the whole job could be done for nothing. I cloned my XP system before switching over to Windows 7. On another machine, I installed Linux Mint and created the Virtual Machine using Oracle VirtualBox - the free one.

Once I had it working, I attached the hard disk with the old clone by USB and had XP working with all my data. As an experiment, I then dumped the Registry and the Programme Files and AppData folders into the mix to see if it worked, k nowing I could start again if it wrecked the system.

It worked. The programmes I'd paid for over the years are still usable, saving me quite a lot. I don't know how it worked and was surprised it did so I don't recommend trying that side of it but jut having XP in the VM is a secure way to carry on using it.
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March 10, 2014 9:24:35 PM

Hi again,

I have quite a few excuses for delaying this, but my main one is the BIOS update. I am a terrified geek in training. My BIOS is A04 and the most current is A09. I don't want to fry my motherboard.

I am not a lucky person so how likely is it that this might fry my motherboard? Or have I read too much about it? From what I read, I "flash" it straight to A09 and it is cumulative?

Also, Dell does have a critical CMOS update that I have never done. All of the drivers that I have found on Dell have been for XP. Though, when I looked at most of my devices, they were Windows generic drivers. When I downloaded the the full Windows XP SP3, I didn't install many of the drivers from the 2005 recovery discs.

Any last minute suggestions or words of encouragement would be much appreciated. Thanks. Wish me luck. This is the week I take the giant leap.

Signed by the procrastinating, scared and bad Geek in Training,
Cheryl
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March 11, 2014 8:03:06 AM

The 2 pitfalls are using the wrong BIOS, or the power getting interrupted while updating.

If you use an uninterrupted power supply, and double check you are using the correct BIOS then you have very little chance of messing up.

If the power never goes out at your house, and you don't unplug it, you have very little chance of a screw up.

You do realize that BIOS a CMOS is basically the same thing.
I have never heard of a CMOS update. The BIOS program, is in the CMOS chip


I did use the wrong BIOS once, and temporally bricked the board.
Luckily it was the kind of CMOS that unplugs, and I had a new one from Abit is 2 days.

I did know what I was doing as I had flashed dozens of BIOS at the time, I was just callous.


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March 13, 2014 2:55:45 PM

Hi Millwright,

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really do appreciate it more than you know. Thanks for making me feel better about the BIOS update. As I was typing this last night, we were in the middle of a high winds, snow and ice storm. So I didn't even attempt the update. How do you know that you have the correct BIOS update?

Big Ooops on the "CMOS update". Much worse, I meant the dreaded Chipset that you warned me about in an early post! Sorry, I am usually a fast learner. Too much on my mind lately!

You said that “…Almost everything is reversible. I think the chip set driver is the only one you can't get around. Yes, you can just put the old hard drive back and it will run.”

If I can't find the Chipset driver, am I dead in the water on the Windows 8.1 update?

This is strange though. I just went onto the Dell Support site and let it scan my system and scan for my Service Tag #. It only listed 3 drivers that they recommend to be downloaded (all XP of course), but only 3:

Intel 537EP WinXP PCI Modem Driver 9/5/06
Broadcom 570x/57XX Gigabit Integrated Controller Driver 12/1/04
Radeon X300 SE Graphics Driver 3/14/06

Not long ago, I logged into my Dell Account that has both my Dimension 8400 and my Inspiron 9400 Laptop. Based on my Service Tag #, when I was logged in, it had 16 downloads out of 63 at the time. One of them was a critical upate for the Intel 925X Express or the 925XE Express Chipset that does not appear on Dell's list of updates now when I log in to my account.

Well, off I go in search of computer technical information. I have so many links and notes that I have saved. I have much to learn and the clock is ticking. Thanks for all your help. Not able to work at the desktop today. Bad pain day...stuck on my laptop! It explains why my desktop is like brand new!

Determined Trainee,
Cheryl
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March 13, 2014 3:17:07 PM

Hi Saga Lout,

I have not forgotten your solution. Just not quite ready yet. I have a Gateway Desktop and Laptop from the Windows 98 era. Any hope for them, if I can get Windows XP loaded? No free time yet if it is complex.This Windows 8.1 has me going in circles while I am working on 5 things at once. Though if it doesn't work on either of my Dells...I will have to do something with the desktop. The laptop has seen better days.

Thanks,
Cheryl


"The VM option is complex to set up using free software but a little easier with a paid-for system. The Linux operating system is free so the whole job could be done for nothing. I cloned my XP system before switching over to Windows 7"
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March 13, 2014 7:03:45 PM

All you can do is try to run without a chip set driver, it most likely will run. In fact it will run.
Maybe USB2 won't work, or something like that.

Also go to windows update after you install windows, and scan for device drivers.
They may have a few.

As for knowing if you have the correct BIOS, all you can do is check the listing.
If you have a Dell service tag, it is pretty hard to go wrong.
Just install the latest one.

I like to always enter the service tag manually.
There is usually a drop down box at the top, you can change to other operating systems or ALL.

BIOS is the same for all operating systems.
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a b \ Driver
a b * Windows 8
March 14, 2014 12:45:35 AM

The Service Tag is displayed in the BIOS pages as you know and I'm surprised if a BIOS update isn't included in the list of the available updates. Maybe you'll see a fuller list if you enter the tag at the Dell site and bring up a list of your own instead of one of theirs.
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March 23, 2014 12:58:05 AM

cheryl1857 said:
Hi Millwright,

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really do appreciate it more than you know. Thanks for making me feel better about the BIOS update. As I was typing this last night, we were in the middle of a high winds, snow and ice storm. So I didn't even attempt the update. How do you know that you have the correct BIOS update?

Big Ooops on the "CMOS update". Much worse, I meant the dreaded Chipset that you warned me about in an early post! Sorry, I am usually a fast learner. Too much on my mind lately!

You said that “…Almost everything is reversible. I think the chip set driver is the only one you can't get around. Yes, you can just put the old hard drive back and it will run.”

If I can't find the Chipset driver, am I dead in the water on the Windows 8.1 update?

This is strange though. I just went onto the Dell Support site and let it scan my system and scan for my Service Tag #. It only listed 3 drivers that they recommend to be downloaded (all XP of course), but only 3:

Intel 537EP WinXP PCI Modem Driver 9/5/06
Broadcom 570x/57XX Gigabit Integrated Controller Driver 12/1/04
Radeon X300 SE Graphics Driver 3/14/06

Not long ago, I logged into my Dell Account that has both my Dimension 8400 and my Inspiron 9400 Laptop. Based on my Service Tag #, when I was logged in, it had 16 downloads out of 63 at the time. One of them was a critical upate for the Intel 925X Express or the 925XE Express Chipset that does not appear on Dell's list of updates now when I log in to my account.

Well, off I go in search of computer technical information. I have so many links and notes that I have saved. I have much to learn and the clock is ticking. Thanks for all your help. Not able to work at the desktop today. Bad pain day...stuck on my laptop! It explains why my desktop is like brand new!

Determined Trainee,
Cheryl


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a b \ Driver
a b * Windows 8
March 23, 2014 2:16:11 AM

Hello Kramotak and welcome to Tom's. I've deleted your duplicate post but neither of them make a point.

Do you have a problem or an answer?
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a b * Windows 8
March 23, 2014 10:32:49 AM

and on it goes for nigh on to two months now??? i refer you to the third post in this thread.
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May 17, 2014 10:22:07 AM

aldan said:
and on it goes for nigh on to two months now??? i refer you to the third post in this thread.


Aldan,
In reference to the third post, I would like to say that my lack of going any further than flashing the BIOS, which Millwright has so kindly and patiently explained, has nothing to do with whether it was successful.

Unfortunately, I have had a great deal of severe health problems that have prevented me from performing the clean install of Windows 8.1. Jumping to conclusions is not the answer to this thread.

I do intend to perform the clean install next week and hope that Millwright will be kind enough to answer any questions I may have. Thank you for your post as it has given me the added incentive to continue.

Thanks.
Cheryl
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May 18, 2014 9:20:47 AM

Still here.
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!