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When even RAID isn't good enough...

Tags:
  • Computers
  • Storage
  • NAS / RAID
  • Hard Drives
Last response: in Storage
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February 11, 2014 6:29:52 PM

Hi all,

I have a spare Core 2 Duo computer that I use as a media and backup server. It has four SATA hard drives connected to it in in a non-RAID configuration.

At some point last week the computer crapped out. I found that the PSU was making a strange sound so I went and bought a new Seasonic 650W power supply. I hook everything up and the mainboard wouldn't POST. This was confirmed with my PCI POST card's error code of 00.

I then bought a new mainboard and hooked everything up last night. Now the computer finally powers on but all four hard drives are dead.

I independently checked each one using an external HDD enclosure and the hard drives won't even spin so even the motor has died.

I'm in the process of buying new hard drives but my question is the following: If a PSU failure can kill all the hard drives in your computer, having RAID won't help because your redundant backup will be destroyed as well. So how can such an eventuality be prevented from occurring? Is there any special hardware that can help in these situations?

Any feedback would be much appreciated, thanks!

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a c 921 G Storage
February 11, 2014 6:48:10 PM

Hardware can be easily replaced. The only irreplaceable thing is a picture of your 2 year old son in his Halloween costume from a decade ago. Or your girlfriend on the beach. Or your dissertation.

RAID is not a backup

Hardware dies. Multiple copies is the key. If my house were to burn to the ground today, a copy of my critical info is saved elsewhere.
Do I need a full backup of Windows or Office? No. Easily replaced.
Do I need a backup of a pic of my grandson from 5 years ago? Yes. That cannot be recreated.
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February 11, 2014 6:48:37 PM

I do not believe your hard drives are dead yet. 4 dead external drives, from one dead PSU is a stretch because the 'killer' would be from the power source, not the USB cable typically.

Has ANY drive worked in your separate external enclosure you're testing with now? Have you hooked up one external drive in its existing enclosure to another pc?
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Best solution

February 11, 2014 6:54:36 PM

USAFRet said:
Hardware can be easily replaced. The only irreplaceable thing is a picture of your 2 year old son in his Halloween costume from a decade ago. Or your girlfriend on the beach. Or your dissertation.

RAID is not a backup

Hardware dies. Multiple copies is the key. If my house were to burn to the ground today, a copy of my critical info is saved elsewhere.
Do I need a full backup of Windows or Office? No. Easily replaced.
Do I need a backup of a pic of my grandson from 5 years ago? Yes. That cannot be recreated.


EXCELLENT point on hardware vs. irreplaceable data.

I believe Raid is a backup if set to certain configurations to mitigate against hardware failure, yet there are tiers of backup:

Tier 1:
Backup on your same hard drive. Risk: 1 hard drive dead, data gone.

Tier 2:
Backup on separate hard drive via raid or external. Risk: cascading failure on pc

Tier 3:
Backup to separate machine at your home/location. Risk: Fire, lighting strike, robbery

Tier 4:
Automated backup to external site (carbonite, mozy, etc). Risk: Not nearly what you're risking keeping your data under one roof.
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a c 921 G Storage
February 11, 2014 7:03:26 PM

bigwoofer said:
I do not believe your hard drives are dead yet. 4 dead external drives, from one dead PSU is a stretch because the 'killer' would be from the power source, not the USB cable typically.

Has ANY drive worked in your separate external enclosure you're testing with now? Have you hooked up one external drive in its existing enclosure to another pc?


Right. I'm doubtful of ALL these drives dying at once.
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a c 544 G Storage
February 11, 2014 7:10:28 PM

RAID is not backup, RAID is redundancy.
It's like having run-flat tires on a car. If you get a flat you can continue driving until you get home or to a garage to get the tire replaced.

It's rare that a surge from PSU will fry your whole system. Almost all newer PSUs have circuitry in them to prevent that from happening. Since you just bought a new PSU if a surge happens again you may lose your motherboard but you probably won't lose everything else like you did before.

In addition to a current generation PSU you should have an external USB HDD that is used only for backup; so in the unlikely event that your whole system is fried again at least you'll have your external backup to restore your files.

Also invest in a decent ($25-$50) power strip with surge protection that connects to your wall socket that you plug your system into.
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February 11, 2014 7:45:27 PM

bigwoofer said:
I do not believe your hard drives are dead yet. 4 dead external drives, from one dead PSU is a stretch because the 'killer' would be from the power source, not the USB cable typically.

Has ANY drive worked in your separate external enclosure you're testing with now? Have you hooked up one external drive in its existing enclosure to another pc?


No, none of the drives that were connected to the damaged PSU work on another computer. The motor won't even start spinning.

Also, I'm not sure how USB cables fit into all this, as these hard drives were connected via SATA, not USB.

Actually... is that an issue? If I connect an external hard drive to the PC for automated backups, and the PSU fries the mainboard again, would the external hard drive also be at risk of being fried?
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a b G Storage
April 29, 2014 9:41:11 AM

bigwoofer said:
USAFRet said:
Hardware can be easily replaced. The only irreplaceable thing is a picture of your 2 year old son in his Halloween costume from a decade ago. Or your girlfriend on the beach. Or your dissertation.

RAID is not a backup

Hardware dies. Multiple copies is the key. If my house were to burn to the ground today, a copy of my critical info is saved elsewhere.
Do I need a full backup of Windows or Office? No. Easily replaced.
Do I need a backup of a pic of my grandson from 5 years ago? Yes. That cannot be recreated.


EXCELLENT point on hardware vs. irreplaceable data.

I believe Raid is a backup if set to certain configurations to mitigate against hardware failure, yet there are tiers of backup:

Tier 1:
Backup on your same hard drive. Risk: 1 hard drive dead, data gone.

Tier 2:
Backup on separate hard drive via raid or external. Risk: cascading failure on pc

Tier 3:
Backup to separate machine at your home/location. Risk: Fire, lighting strike, robbery

Tier 4:
Automated backup to external site (carbonite, mozy, etc). Risk: Not nearly what you're risking keeping your data under one roof.


None of these by themselves eliminate all single points of failure and public cloud is by itself not less risky than keeping a physical backup in your possession.
Also, your tier 2 is wrong as RAID is not significantly more reliable than a backup on the same single drive.
A copy on an external hard drive or separate machine AND a copy off site or on public cloud storage is THE BARE MINIMUM for eliminating any single point of failure.

Anything less than that in any of the tiers you've listed is going to be at least an order of magnitude more likely to result in data loss than the standard 3-2-1 principal.
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