HELP! systemd chosen over upstart etc

nss000 · Feb 11, 2014

Running Ubuntu 12.04.4 on several systems: Reference: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwMDQ

Debian shipping with 'systemd' not sysv* or upstart. Will a THW poster of some experience explain to casual lusrs the implications of this choice ? Will Linux lusrland even be aware of the choice by some required behavioral change ?? Not like the difference between GNOME2 & GNOME3 ???

skittle · Feb 11, 2014

The implications for the lay-person are zero. Vast majority of users have almost zero interaction with either init system.
Ubuntu will still ship with upstart. Most other distrobutions will ship with systemd or OpenRC. Many distrobutions are already using systemd ArchLinux and Fedora. Gentoo uses OpenRC.

Here is a good thread with basic information:
http://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/1xj7zm/eli5_the_systemd_controversy/

IMO systemd was the right choice for Debian. It is technically superior to other init systems and does not come with ubuntu's bizarre CLA.

Here is one persons experience installing systemd on debian "testing"
https://medium.com/p/e024758ca63d

Today on my ArchLinux USB install I switched my login service from lightdm to lxdm:

Code:

systemctl disable lightdm
systemctl enable lxdm

Not complicated.

nss000 · Feb 12, 2014

BigS:

No effect on me eh, except for gossip-column-like RedHat vs Cannonical politics. So to usrland this systemd-vs-upstart debate is the equivalent of arguing 'how many angels dance on a pinpoint?'

Funny how a basic OS feature has no-direct-impact on a usr experience. As an analogy, in a car the torque-vs-rpm curve has a direct expression in fact & feeling of acceleration ... oh well ... thanks for the response.

skittle :

The implications for the lay-person are zero. Vast majority of users have almost zero interaction with either init system.
Ubuntu will still ship with upstart. Most other distrobutions will ship with systemd or OpenRC. Many distrobutions are already using systemd ArchLinux and Fedora. Gentoo uses OpenRC.

Here is a good thread with basic information:
http://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/1xj7zm/eli5_the_systemd_controversy/

IMO systemd was the right choice for Debian. It is technically superior to other init systems and does not come with ubuntu's bizarre CLA.

Here is one persons experience installing systemd on debian "testing"
https://medium.com/p/e024758ca63d

Today on my ArchLinux USB install I switched my login service from lightdm to lxdm:

Code:

systemctl disable lightdm
systemctl enable lxdm

Not complicated.

skittle · Feb 14, 2014

Update on the situation
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316
Ubuntu will use systemd

nss000 · Feb 14, 2014

I read his BLOG and sent him a thankyou ... does this mean Linux is growing up ?? I then complained it was impossible to buy UBUNTU wearables in America. My young nephews would groove on bright U-Tshirts & hoodies and stuffed animals .

Their house is infected with iFLUFF !

skittle :

randomizer · Feb 15, 2014

nss00, you tend to use LTS versions of Ubuntu from what I've seen, so you'll be shielded from the impact of this for 5 years. 14.04 will still use Upstart.

nss000 · Feb 15, 2014

Yes I DO use Ubuntu-LTS versions. Speaking-of-which ought I be planning a move to U_14.04LTS after letting the "big-dogs" chew on it for 1/2 year ? Some really major improvement would justify the risk. Fearing a cockup only recently I moved my legacy AMD965 from U_10.04 to U12.04 (new really is better!) so I'm pretty cautious about changing stuff-that-works.

randomizer :

randomizer · Feb 15, 2014

12.04 is supported for 5 years as well from memory, so you don't need to upgrade if you are happy with your system. There were pretty big differences between 10.04 and 12.04 thanks to unity, but it's not quite as drastic this time around.

nss000 · Feb 16, 2014

BigR:

Thanks to GNOME CLASSIC I never need suffer with unity. Honest-beloved patriot I get cold sweats & shaky paws every time a keyboard blunder takes me into unity.

But, U_12.04.4 is ever-so-subtly better at sound, printing and camera offload so many folks have been working on the pieces; yes of-course like any honest lusr I roll all basic screen interactions (CLI/GUI/utility-apps) into one. Squintscreens are unspeakable! Frankly I consider GNOME-2 as usrland desktop perfection missing only the beezwax texture of an 1880s oak rolltop and smell of a smouldering Habanos!

randomizer :

skittle · Feb 16, 2014

If you like gnome2, XFCE is the next best thing and IMO is the best DE existing...

nss000 · Feb 17, 2014

BigS:

Yes. I have thought hard about switching to XFCE. I understand it's a solid, no-frills no twitcheroo type of GUI that works today, works tomorrow. Yet three (3) issues deflect me from trying it.

1) discomfort with & trouble getting ANYTHING new to run
2) good satisfaction with GNOME Classic
3) sampling XFCE comments shows many unhappy users because of a too-Spartan look.

Usrland that's me lublublubs applet & menu-infested GNOME-2 and GNOME Classic is currently only 1/2 step away. If GNOME proves witchy and reverts to GNOME-3 or otherwise forces UNITY I would squeal like a stuck-pig and jump immediately to ... ?

skittle :

randomizer · Feb 18, 2014

The closest thing to GNOME 2 is MATE since it's a fork of the original code. Xfce may be old school as well but it's not quite the same.

nss000 · Feb 18, 2014

BigR:

I did try MATE after I got my XEON hardware issues sorted out. Sad-to-say I felt confused by its tie-in with MINT, and did not like the visuals ... the GUI looked like it had been built from etch-a-sketch (1960s toy). I like the Chunky (1960s candy bar) feel of GNOME. Seems also I had issues about when/how/where to update the GUI. After initial installation that's automagic with GNOME/UBUNTU.

Actually -- following MS AMDgurls advice I tried and really liked SCIENTIFIC LINUX w/GNOME-2 ... a distro which is RHEL rebranded. Easy install & absolutely rocksolid feel like no other Linux varient ... you would never upgrade because you cannot upgrade a block-of-granite! Sad case again ... SL did not support Chrome-browser which I always use in connection with TOR.

So after all that blundering soap-opera messing about I'm back to a middle-of-road solution on both my XEON & AMD965 boxes with U_12.04 / GNOME-Classic.

randomizer :

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