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Fixing OC I7 High Temps With Air

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February 15, 2014 10:41:07 AM

I have a 3 year old Lian Li Mid Tower case with OC i& 2600K on an ASUS Sabertooth P67 board. I am currently using a cooler master 212 plus evo cpu cooler. I am trying to figure out how to set up and adjust case fan speed on the MB and measure the results. I did try setting the fans via the MB but I cannot tell what effect it has. I am reading various past posts on the effects on positive and negative pressure in the box and how to best set up fans but I am getting lost. Basically, I am trying to figure out the best cooling solution without creating turbulence or strong negative pressure. I currently have two 120mm front intake fans but I have no idea how much air they are pushing. I have one 120mm exhaust fan. The assumption would be at this point that I am exhausting less air than I am bringing in so that would create positive air pressure. I would assume the heatsink fans are contributing nothing at this point since they should be pushing air over and out past the heatsink. No more air would be exhausting since these fans are internal within the case interior. My thought it that is I were to install a 140 mm exhaust fan on the top opening over the cpu, I would need to be careful of now exhausting more air that I am bringing in which would create a negative pressure situation but it would probably cool better.

With all of this said, I am thinking that if I could somehow measure and control each fan, I could still have two intake and two exhaust but dial in the intake fans at 800 rpm each and the exhaust at 600 rpm each and have better air movement AND still positive pressure.

Am I thinking correctly and if so, how do I do this and if not, what suggestions might one have? My case seems to have little room for a water cooler so I am trying to work through other options. Any help would be great.

More about : fixing high temps air

a b K Overclocking
February 15, 2014 10:58:22 AM

Well few things you should know before any assumption:

1. Negative pressure (more air coming out - less air coming in) brings better cooling, removes the possibility of "hot pockets" inside the case, but since it is negative pressure, air will sip through the case and that means a bit more duts

2. Positive pressure (move intake, less exhaust) is a bit less effective as cooling solution (few degrees more), but since air is escaping from the case at all possible spots, blowing dust away and resulting in a cleaner case.

Which one is better - depends on your GPU cooler type. And now all blower and axial coolers are made equal. If the video cards dumps the heat in the case (axial) - go negative. If the video cards dumps the heat outside the case (blower type) go positive. This is a general rule of thumb for me (well my rule, it is true most of the time, BUT NOT ALWAYS).

Don't regard Negative pressure as something bad. To go negative or positive is even more of a personal choice than hardware. If set up properly both can work for you.

3. Fan dimensions and RPM are really not the most important factor. Sure - bigger fans move the same amount of air with less noise. What is most important for fans is their 1st - static pressure and 2 - how much air they more (measured in cubic meters of air).

4. Your CPU heat sink fan and GPU fan move air inside the case. They can make up for lack of case fans or lack of power of the case fans if set up properly. Sometimes more fans hurt than help.

Example:
I have a Cooler Master HAF 912+ (default set-up - 200mm intake, 120 exhaust) with I7 2700k with Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. I used to have a Asus GT520 passively cooled. My CPU was topping 54/55 (20C ambient) C at torture tests. I changed the card to Asus GTX 650TI with dual axial fans. You would guess that things will get hotter with the new GPU dumping heat inside. Well I tough so as well and it was wrong. The CPU temps fell down to 51/52 C (20C ambient) after installing the 650 TI and the GPU is at 45C at torture test. When I tried to put a fan (140 mm) on the side panel as intake, things went worse. GPU temp rose by 3C, while the CPU remained the same. As an exhaust - GPU temps drove down to 40/41 while CPU temp went up by 2. I have not tried sticking a top exhaust fan (I wanted a 200 mm one, but did not buy it, because I did not feel the need to) but was just curious.

Hope this helps. Cheers
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February 15, 2014 11:23:38 AM

Although your response is helpful, it does not really solve my dilemma. I am hitting temps of 96 degrees within 10 minutes of running toture test with P95. My processor is OC'd to 4.7 using a vcore of 1.34 so to me, something is not right. Even at a minor overclock of 4.4 and lower vcore, I am still in the upper 80's to lower 90's in a short period of time. I use my rig for 3D modelling and animation, I am not a gamer so temps from my GPU are not even a factor at this point. When doing renderings, my cpu may be at 100% for 3+ hours and sometimes overnight so I am trying to find a good solution. My case does not afford any water cooling options that I can think of except maybe the Corsair H80i which seems like it will be tight if it works at all. That is why I am looking at my fan set up and seeing if there is some opportunity there to increase cooling. I am also going to try reseating the heatsink since I think that could be contributing to this.
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a b K Overclocking
February 15, 2014 12:01:13 PM

Well I don't know about your renders, but mine sometimes take 2 days :) . Gosh Mental Ray is slow, but no $ for Vray or Arnold.

Anyway, back to the topic.

1 - What I have said is to help you use your configuration at it's best. The cooling inside a case is dependent on all components (yes, your CPU temps are also dependent on your GPU cooling system type). My GPU's fans lowered my CPU temps, which for you it might be illogical. Don't consider CPU temps as dependent on only half of your components which have an impact.

2 - You did not give either your case model, video card brand and model (yes, video card has an impact on the airflow in the case), or the fans brand and model you use. Not all fans are created equal. I am trying to help as best as I can, with insufficient information you give and even after that you again point the problem without providing anything helpful to solve it.

3 - You have positive pressure. Positive pressure can create "hot pockets" of air.

4 - I won't recommend even the Hyper 212 Evo for going over 4.5 GHz, what is left of the 212 Plus (which is anywhere between 3 to 5 C less effective). Still when I am at 4.4 I stay in the upper 70s. The 212 does not have enough mass to cope with it properly. You can try and put a 2nd fan on your 212 +.

5 - Have you applied the thermal compound correctly? There are a lot of methods to apply thermal compound and all of them applied correctly will turn a perfect result. Using the very famous and recommended "pea" method, does not ensure that it can't be implemented bad. I still use the card spread method and I it is the only method I get perfect results with. (maybe because I done it few hundred times already). I create a super thin, see through layer on the CPU and wipe the card off the CPU cooler (to fill the holes between the pipes on the Hyper 212 Evo).

6 - If you wish any help further - please provide additional information:
- Case Brand and Model
- Video card Brand and Model
- Number and position of case fans - their brand, model and dimensions
- Cable management? Are your cables routed from the back or are they in the case restricting airflow?
- How many HDDs and SSDs you have? Do they block much of the intake?
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February 15, 2014 12:32:46 PM

Sorry Shneiky, I did not intend to come across as your post not being helpful. It is all good, especially for someone like myself, so your point is taken. My complete build is the following: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-9f/. I have a ATI Firepro 7800 video card, 650 watt corsair power unit on the bottom with a bottom fan. Also, I was incorrect on my cpu cooler. It is not the CM hyper 212 Evo but it is a CM N520 w/ 92 mm fans!!!. I checked my 3 year old invoice. I also have (2) 1 TB black caviar hard drives and 1 128g hard drive I use for programs. The two front case fans are 120 mm and the rear case fan is 120mm. I cannot fit 140 mm in these spots and the fans came with the case.

I just found out the noctura NH-D14 cpu cooler I like will not work in my case with my corsair vengence ram.

I have a picture of the interior of my case I would post if I could.
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a b K Overclocking
February 15, 2014 4:00:34 PM

Well now, this explains a lot.

1 - The N520 runs 10-12C hotter than a 212+ and around 13-15C hotter than a 212 Evo at stock (even more on OC). That is your major culprit.

2 - The FirePro 7800 is a 1 slot blower type 1 slot card. The only plus of the blower cards compared to axial ones is that they dump some of the heat inside the case out. But since it is a 1 slot card - it does not do that.

3 - With those 3 drives, a lot of your intake is restricted, this makes the case airflow be more dependent on the CPU fans to move the air inside the case. Since you don't have much power on the CPU fans, air gets hot.

So my suggestion is to change the CPU cooler. If you like the Noctua NH-D14 - go for it, but you have to change RAM. It is a little too pricy for what it is though (not to mention it is a$$ugly and you have a side window) and weights 1.25 kg. I don't feel comfortable if I have something more than 1000 grams on my motherboard, but that is something personal. And a NH-D14 tick down 5-7 C lower than a 212 Evo. If I were you I would just get a 212 Evo and stick a 2nd fan (it will be half the price of the NH-D14). Then it is 4.5/4.6 GHz with no worries. The NH-D14 and the Phanteks PH-TC14 are those type of coolers that you would use to get in the old "5GHz on Air" Sandy Bridge club. Now if you are already running 4.5/4.6 GHz (and with this, being on par with 4 GHz Haswells) will another 200-300 MHz (4-5%) really matter?

In the end it is your call. Cheers and wish you good luck.
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February 15, 2014 6:07:48 PM

Yeah, I found out a big difference between EVO and my 520. Anyway, took time to clean out the case good, used autoclock again to overclock to 4.4 running a vcore of 1.34 under P95 torture test and temperatures are hoovering around 81-83 after about an hour. I am thinking I should be able to realize 69-72 under the same test using whatever new cooler I get, whether it be the Corsair H80i or the CM 212 EVO. I scrapped the Noctura because of the memory issue.

I will try pushing the overclock manually a bit more with the new cooler or maybe try to lower voltage so I can get even better temps at 4.4 or same temps at 4.6 or 4.7.

You have been very helpful and I appreciate it greatly. Thanks again.

Oh, one quick question. When removing the 520 and installing the EVO, it seems as if I am going to need to remove the motherboard to accomplish this because the nuts holding the heatsink in place are on the back side of the MB and 2 of the nuts are behind the metal while the other two are easily accessible through the metal panel hole. If I do not to remove the MB, this seems like a real PITA and something I have never done.
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a b K Overclocking
February 15, 2014 7:37:25 PM

I will write down most of the steps:

1 - remove old heatsink, all connector to the motherboard and all tiny screws
2 - wipe the old thermal compound leftover on CPU with clean spirit (95% is good) and textile tissue (paper one can leave fibers behind)
3 - Do not forget to apply a thin, almost see-through layer of thermal compound (the card spread method) or use the pea sized drop method. Or whichever you like.
4 - follow this tutorial, but after installing the backplate and the nuts, install the motherboard in the case and then install the heatsink and fan. (Preventive measure. I have seen people installing the cooler on the motherboard without it being screwed to the case, and during the installation they tend to tighten the screws too much and bent the motherboard. If the motherboard is screwed to the case during heatsink installation, the chances that this happens are smaller)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1322128/guide-installing-coo...

On a side note, don't worry if the 212 heatsink moves a bit if you twist it with a bit of force. That is normal.

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February 22, 2014 1:24:39 PM

Shneiky said:
I will write down most of the steps:

1 - remove old heatsink, all connector to the motherboard and all tiny screws
2 - wipe the old thermal compound leftover on CPU with clean spirit (95% is good) and textile tissue (paper one can leave fibers behind)
3 - Do not forget to apply a thin, almost see-through layer of thermal compound (the card spread method) or use the pea sized drop method. Or whichever you like.
4 - follow this tutorial, but after installing the backplate and the nuts, install the motherboard in the case and then install the heatsink and fan. (Preventive measure. I have seen people installing the cooler on the motherboard without it being screwed to the case, and during the installation they tend to tighten the screws too much and bent the motherboard. If the motherboard is screwed to the case during heatsink installation, the chances that this happens are smaller)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1322128/guide-installing-coo...

On a side note, don't worry if the 212 heatsink moves a bit if you twist it with a bit of force. That is normal.





I decided to install this Corsair H80i product. I am not a computer guy but I worked my way through using utube and internet. Corsairs directions are not very good.

Anyway, I thought I had things hooked up properly but I get a "cpu fan error - press F1 message" upon boot-up. I did a search on the internet and it seems that people were suggesting maybe an issue with the connection of a 3 pin fan thing with psu, or maybe how radiator fans were connected or just disabling the cpu fan error message in bios.

Since I felt things were connected properly, I just disabled the cpu fan error to see if I could boot and check temps. I was able to boot but I would like to know why I am getting the message and had to disable?

With the previous CM 520 N air cooler, it's fan was connected the MB fan port and to a PSU connector. With the H80i, I could not use that psu connector since the power end from H80i was totally different. However, I had to leave the old psu connector in place so I could plug in this little plug from the H80i that fit this. It seems half ass or not quite right to me for some reason.

I wish someone could explain what maybe I did to cause this?

Lastly, the utube videos I was referencing had me install the two fans in a configuration where the rear radiator fan on the case is blowing air inward onto the radiator and the second radiator fan is blowing air away from radiator into the case. I can't see where this makes sens when I have case fan on the front blowing air into the case. Basically, I have no exhaust at the moment!! It all seemed counter intuitive to what was discussed on here but both utube videos did the same thing.

I am running a P95 totrure test for high heat and I have been hovering around 65 deg. C. I can't complain since my temps previous to this were hitting 94 deg. C under same torture test within 10 minutes or so.

Which is the correct way to orient these fans in my case? I am assuming that I should reverse this whole setup.
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a b K Overclocking
February 23, 2014 2:26:30 AM

Your 1st error is ( CPU fan error ) is maybe because you plugged the h80i fan into the case fan outlet on your motherboard. Depending on the motherboard - some have 1 CPU fan header or 2 CPU fan header or CPU fan + case fan or several of one or the other kind. Sometimes, for cable management or because I want the CPU fan to blow in a different direction, I use the case fan header on the motherboard and just disable the error from BIOS.

On your 2nd question. Yes, you were right, if your H80i is installed on the top of your case (or the back) it should be exhaust. A general "rule" (it may vary depending on configuration) is all front and bottom fans are intakes, all top and rear fans are exhausts (side fans are generally intake, but can also be exhausts depending on GPU cooler type). I think this classic way (front+bottom intake, rear+top exhaust) is best suited for your case.

Cheers.
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