what delid method is best?
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Overclocking
- Heatsinks
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CPUs
Last response: in Overclocking
ScribbleMike
February 25, 2014 6:43:39 PM
Alright I have concluded that my 4770k is one of the worst I could have, getting 90c easily during a 4.4Ghz OC at 100% and 100c at 4.6GHz max load, what's the best method I should use to seperate the heatsink and cpu? Vice and Hammer? Razor blade? Any other reliable method? Thanks in advance
More about : delid method
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Reply to ScribbleMike
Markkk
February 25, 2014 6:48:36 PM
ScribbleMike
February 25, 2014 6:53:35 PM
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Markkk said:
At that overclock your should be liquid coolingIf your Using stock Cooling and overclocking your mad
One of the better air cooled is Hyper 212
should separate with a little twist
I disagree. Many chips will handle 4.5GHz fine on air. Removing the heat spreader should only be attempted for people who know what they are doing. Both methods work but I personally used the razor method because i was too lazy to go and find a vice. Was easy enough, dont see why people getting scared at this instead of hitting a cpu with a hammer. Removing the heat spreader will void the warranty! If your chip can do 4.4, it ain't the worst. Many chips cant get past 4.3 @ 1.3 Vcore.
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ScribbleMike
February 25, 2014 6:57:04 PM
airplanegeek said:
Markkk said:
At that overclock your should be liquid coolingIf your Using stock Cooling and overclocking your mad
One of the better air cooled is Hyper 212
should separate with a little twist
I disagree. Many chips will handle 4.5GHz fine on air. Removing the heat spreader should only be attempted for people who know what they are doing. Both methods work but I personally used the razor method because i was too lazy to go and find a vice. Was easy enough, dont see why people getting scared at this instead of hitting a cpu with a hammer. Removing the heat spreader will void the warranty! If your chip can do 4.4, it ain't the worst. Many chips cant get past 4.3 @ 1.3 Vcore.
h100i running at 100% fan speed
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Reply to ScribbleMike
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Markkk
February 25, 2014 7:45:25 PM
The h100i coolers are rated as one of the better coolers available
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h100i-elc240-seidon...
http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/corsair-h100...
As for removal "airplanegeek" suggested the better removal method for you with this cooling system.
Perhaps he can also suggest an alternative cooling method to suit you overclocking needs, as the hyper 212 although a good air cooler is probably not enough for your needs.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h100i-elc240-seidon...
http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/corsair-h100...
As for removal "airplanegeek" suggested the better removal method for you with this cooling system.
Perhaps he can also suggest an alternative cooling method to suit you overclocking needs, as the hyper 212 although a good air cooler is probably not enough for your needs.
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Reply to Markkk
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Markkk
February 25, 2014 7:53:26 PM
Found this tread...
May or may not be of interest to you
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/162n9y/a_warn...
May or may not be of interest to you
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/162n9y/a_warn...
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ScribbleMike
February 25, 2014 7:53:39 PM
Markkk said:
The h100i coolers are rated as one of the better coolers availablehttp://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h100i-elc240-seidon...
http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/corsair-h100...
As for removal "airplanegeek" suggested the better removal method for you with this cooling system.
Perhaps he can also suggest an alternative cooling method to suit you overclocking needs, as the hyper 212 although a good air cooler is probably not enough for your needs.
Either my h100i is bad or I just lucked out in the silicon lottery... I think I'll delid and to the vice and hammer method. I do need tips on it though
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Reply to ScribbleMike
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Markkk
February 25, 2014 8:07:23 PM
I have not personally had to remove a h100i
The Shock from a Hammer through a CPU doesn't sound like a ideal plan of removal
Did you Glue it together?
Thermal paste should separate with a twist on stubborn but using heavy duty hardware scares me
See http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/293713-28-stuck-heats...
The Shock from a Hammer through a CPU doesn't sound like a ideal plan of removal
Did you Glue it together?
Thermal paste should separate with a twist on stubborn but using heavy duty hardware scares me
See http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/293713-28-stuck-heats...
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Reply to Markkk
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Markkk
February 25, 2014 8:08:40 PM
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Reply to Markkk
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Markkk
February 25, 2014 10:44:49 PM
airplanegeek said:
Mark. What we are talking about here is removing the heatspreader from the cpu die, not the entire cpu from the heatsinkairplanegeek - I must be confused.... do whatever you want hammer the thing... like i give a care it's not my CPU that you want to destroy.. Seems like i've stepped on your toes... SORRY
I read "what's the best method I should use to seperate the heatsink and cpu? Vice and Hammer? " I must have serious 1st language issues and not understand my native English... frankly do what you like.
Sorry ScribbleMike i have no idea what i'm talking about best of luck with your hammer.
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WerneHR
February 26, 2014 4:27:59 AM
airplanegeek said:
Removing the heat spreader will void the warranty!As long as there is no physical damage on the chip's die/PCB, Intel will replace a delidded unit if it dies. I replaced two 3570Ks after openly admitting to their customer service that I ripped off the IHS, guy told me delidding falls under warranty as long as the chip has no physical damage on the PCB/die and you didn't throw the IHS away after taking it off.
Store refuses to replace it though, I guess they don't want to risk it, but Intel will take the chip. Gotta say, nice move from Intel.
Markkk said:
I read "what's the best method I should use to seperate the heatsink and cpu? Vice and Hammer? " I must have serious 1st language issues and not understand my native English... frankly do what you like.CPU's IHS stands for "Integrated Heat Sink", it's a heatsink integrated onto the CPU PCB for transferring heat onto the external heatsink (aka, cooler). For those who don't know, CPU cooling on IB/Haswell works like this - die > TIM > IHS > TIM > EHS.
You don't have language issues, you have issues differentiating parts of the CPU and it's cooling.
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ScribbleMike
February 26, 2014 1:10:56 PM
WerneHR said:
airplanegeek said:
Removing the heat spreader will void the warranty!As long as there is no physical damage on the chip's die/PCB, Intel will replace a delidded unit if it dies. I replaced two 3570Ks after openly admitting to their customer service that I ripped off the IHS, guy told me delidding falls under warranty as long as the chip has no physical damage on the PCB/die and you didn't throw the IHS away after taking it off.
Store refuses to replace it though, I guess they don't want to risk it, but Intel will take the chip. Gotta say, nice move from Intel.
Markkk said:
I read "what's the best method I should use to seperate the heatsink and cpu? Vice and Hammer? " I must have serious 1st language issues and not understand my native English... frankly do what you like.CPU's IHS stands for "Integrated Heat Sink", it's a heatsink integrated onto the CPU PCB for transferring heat onto the external heatsink (aka, cooler). For those who don't know, CPU cooling on IB/Haswell works like this - die > TIM > IHS > TIM > EHS.
You don't have language issues, you have issues differentiating parts of the CPU and it's cooling.
So should I try delidding if I can replace it? At 4.2Ghz with around 20% usage the temps get to a max of 50c which is unacceptable for me
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Reply to ScribbleMike
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WerneHR
February 26, 2014 2:56:58 PM
You keep mentioning frequency but it matters little, what does matter is at what voltage? If the voltage is low and heat is high, it may need delidding. If the voltage is high, don't even bother since the overclocking headroom on higher voltage is minimal without going into the extreme range where you risk frying the CPU outright. Also, do note that delidding is risky, the very act of hitting the chip with a hammer using the hammer and vice method can crack the PCB or damage the die, and you can easily cut into the die (or the on-chip VRMs) if you don't have steady hands or if the blade "slips" using the razor method.
And before popping the IHS I'd first have a go at re-seating the cooler, often when people talk high temps it's the cooler mount making the temps high, not the TIM under the IHS. H100i is a decent cooler and unless you're pumping the CPU full of volts like 1.4V and above (any half-decent 4770K should reach 4.2 at under 1.3V), it should be able to handle the heat without a problem on most units. If re-seating doesn't help and you're 100% sure the cooler is working (aka, the pump and fans work) and your entire cooling system is fine, hammer away.
And before popping the IHS I'd first have a go at re-seating the cooler, often when people talk high temps it's the cooler mount making the temps high, not the TIM under the IHS. H100i is a decent cooler and unless you're pumping the CPU full of volts like 1.4V and above (any half-decent 4770K should reach 4.2 at under 1.3V), it should be able to handle the heat without a problem on most units. If re-seating doesn't help and you're 100% sure the cooler is working (aka, the pump and fans work) and your entire cooling system is fine, hammer away.
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Reply to WerneHR
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ScribbleMike
February 26, 2014 3:10:03 PM
WerneHR said:
You keep mentioning frequency but it matters little, what does matter is at what voltage? If the voltage is low and heat is high, it may need delidding. If the voltage is high, don't even bother since the overclocking headroom on higher voltage is minimal without going into the extreme range where you risk frying the CPU outright. Also, do note that delidding is risky, the very act of hitting the chip with a hammer using the hammer and vice method can crack the PCB or damage the die, and you can easily cut into the die (or the on-chip VRMs) if you don't have steady hands or if the blade "slips" using the razor method.And before popping the IHS I'd first have a go at re-seating the cooler, often when people talk high temps it's the cooler mount making the temps high, not the TIM under the IHS. H100i is a decent cooler and unless you're pumping the CPU full of volts like 1.4V and above (any half-decent 4770K should reach 4.2 at under 1.3V), it should be able to handle the heat without a problem on most units. If re-seating doesn't help and you're 100% sure the cooler is working (aka, the pump and fans work) and your entire cooling system is fine, hammer away.
Mine got to 4.4 at around 1.27v
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Reply to ScribbleMike
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I've heard a lot of bad things about the vice method. Mostly that you have a higher risk of creating small cracks in the pcb and die. I use a razor blade and it's fairly easy and straight forward. If you want to speed it up you can actually push the blade in a little by hand and then use a small hammer to tap it through quicker. It's all risky though.
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Reply to Davil
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ThePCEnthusiast
March 16, 2014 6:06:13 AM
tetsuya23
March 16, 2014 11:45:32 AM
If you have got the CPU brand new, I would suggest both vice and hammer or razor + plastic/paper card. It is easier to vice and hammer when its brand new same as razor + plastic card/paper card. I delidded my 4670K using the razor + paper card which had 3 months usage after assembly and it was harder to delid using the razor method as the black thermal epoxy kind of got squashed between the ihs and the pcb harder to get the blade to cut into the black epoxy between the ihs and the pcb.
Basically as you use the chip it heats up softening the epoxy and the pressure exerted by the cpu clamp will further push the ihs into the pcb displacing the epoxy. When you try to razor method its really hard to get your blade into it.
Normally brand new chips have about .5-.8 thickness epoxy (thats what I notice im not sure with the exact length) which is why they are easier to delid using blade (open an entry point at the edge of the ihs) + thin card board/plastic card to continue (then insert the card board to the entry point to continue opening the ihs without the risk of damaging the PCB.
But if your cpu is used for a while now I would suggest the vice hammer, don't risk scratching the PCB unless you have steady hands. But if you think the epoxy has enough thickness to where you can slide a thin but not bendy razor on it then you can also do it with razor method.
Trust me, when I tried to delid mine with the blade and card at the blade stage my hand was shaking so bad its like having a 9.0 earthquake on my hands...... but everything was easier when I was able to get the paper/plastic card inserted to the entry point.
Also careful on using the liquid metal TIMS like the ICY Diamond I seen some people cracking their Die's because of it. Apparently they kind of react to the Die which eventually cracked it.... CPU Dead.
Just be patient thats all.
Also if your doing Vice hammer I have heard some people saying they got hotter temps after vice clamp delidding. After you delid using vice clamp make sure your ihs did not get any dents because this will cause you heat sink not to sit flat on the ihs causing poor thermal transfer from ihs to heatsink. If there are dents try to lap it using sand paper (fine one) or your knife sharpening stone (high grit)
Reference for how I delidded mine was through:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2aFZBBJF4
Basically as you use the chip it heats up softening the epoxy and the pressure exerted by the cpu clamp will further push the ihs into the pcb displacing the epoxy. When you try to razor method its really hard to get your blade into it.
Normally brand new chips have about .5-.8 thickness epoxy (thats what I notice im not sure with the exact length) which is why they are easier to delid using blade (open an entry point at the edge of the ihs) + thin card board/plastic card to continue (then insert the card board to the entry point to continue opening the ihs without the risk of damaging the PCB.
But if your cpu is used for a while now I would suggest the vice hammer, don't risk scratching the PCB unless you have steady hands. But if you think the epoxy has enough thickness to where you can slide a thin but not bendy razor on it then you can also do it with razor method.
Trust me, when I tried to delid mine with the blade and card at the blade stage my hand was shaking so bad its like having a 9.0 earthquake on my hands...... but everything was easier when I was able to get the paper/plastic card inserted to the entry point.
Also careful on using the liquid metal TIMS like the ICY Diamond I seen some people cracking their Die's because of it. Apparently they kind of react to the Die which eventually cracked it.... CPU Dead.
Just be patient thats all.
Also if your doing Vice hammer I have heard some people saying they got hotter temps after vice clamp delidding. After you delid using vice clamp make sure your ihs did not get any dents because this will cause you heat sink not to sit flat on the ihs causing poor thermal transfer from ihs to heatsink. If there are dents try to lap it using sand paper (fine one) or your knife sharpening stone (high grit)
Reference for how I delidded mine was through:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2aFZBBJF4
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Reply to tetsuya23
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Here is another good reference I didn't see listed. It is what I used when I first tried to delid.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-cl...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-cl...
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Reply to Spectre694
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I just performed two delids last night. My first time ever. I used the vise method and it went very smooth. No dents, no scratches, and temps for both CPUs dropped 15C on air.
The IHS popped off easily for both. One was a new CPU, the other in use about 3 months. I used electrical tape to protect the IHS from the vise as well as the pin-side of the processors.
The IHS popped off easily for both. One was a new CPU, the other in use about 3 months. I used electrical tape to protect the IHS from the vise as well as the pin-side of the processors.
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Reply to rwpritchett
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I made a new video for how to delid a 4770k with a razor and it only took about 5 minutes and worked quite well with no scratches or scuffs on it.
Delid Video
I'm very weary of the long term effects that using a vice and hammer will have. Granted there might not be problems right away, but you're hitting a thin piece of fiber glass with a hammer. Even spreading out the blow from the hammer you still have the shock from the epoxy being ripped off the board. That probably creates some microscopic cracks that are only going to get worse over time especially with all the temperature changes it will experience.
Delid Video
I'm very weary of the long term effects that using a vice and hammer will have. Granted there might not be problems right away, but you're hitting a thin piece of fiber glass with a hammer. Even spreading out the blow from the hammer you still have the shock from the epoxy being ripped off the board. That probably creates some microscopic cracks that are only going to get worse over time especially with all the temperature changes it will experience.
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Reply to Davil
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klepp0906
July 22, 2014 9:18:28 AM
Ugh this thread confirms what I already know. Tomshardware isn't the place to be if your an enthusiast and ignorance is bliss.
Anyhow; the hammer never worked for me. Either too much adhesive relative to how hard I felt comfy whaling on it or whatever but so long as your cautious regarding the location of the IVr caps and keep the blade oriented towards the IHS slightly you will be fine.
I've done 3 that way now. I've also seen people cut into the package and expose the copper/traces which is ultimately GG. So the thinner and sharper the blade the better.
Good luck!
Anyhow; the hammer never worked for me. Either too much adhesive relative to how hard I felt comfy whaling on it or whatever but so long as your cautious regarding the location of the IVr caps and keep the blade oriented towards the IHS slightly you will be fine.
I've done 3 that way now. I've also seen people cut into the package and expose the copper/traces which is ultimately GG. So the thinner and sharper the blade the better.
Good luck!
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