modeling /rendering computer requirements?

dft3 · Feb 27, 2014

So, I am fairly new to the build your own computer world (recently built a gaming computer), and I was planning on building a computer for my modeling and rendering work. I have somewhat of a bearing with computer lingo, but I definitely need some help before I invest money in something like this.

For starters I guess I should list the programs and work I will be doing. Most of my work will be done in autocadd, rhino, Pro/E wildfire, solid works, and catia, and whatever program anyone would be nice enough to suggest to me

. As for work specific, I am studying mechanical engineering and most of my stuff would involve gear systems and the such, but also semi detailed cars and planes and such. (Nothing too crazy, and I wouldn't be opposed to long rendering times as I am used to it).

My budget is probably going to be capped at about 1000 or so.

I have been looking around at some products and ideas on my own, but like I said I'm not really sure what I should be looking for. Do I need a powerful processor, or a powerful gpu? I know ( I think) that Some programs work well with nvidia cards, but are any of those in my price range?

Thank you very much for any help you can give me, I really appreciate it.

Best regards,
Dan

shortstuff_mt · Feb 27, 2014

What all is included in the budget? Monitor, OS, keyboard, mouse, etc...?

shortstuff_mt · Feb 27, 2014

This one includes the OS and monitor for less than $1100.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($324.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($113.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($144.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 750 1GB Video Card ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT Source 210 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Acer S220HQLAbd 21.5" Monitor ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1068.87
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-27 01:43 EST-0500)

dft3 · Feb 27, 2014

The budget is just for the computer, I have plenty of OS keys and monitors lying around.

As for the build, I was actually looking at your mentioned processor so I was at least on the right track it seems. I was also planning on using dual monitors, would that card suffice or should I get something with more vram?

Thanks for your help!
Dan

RobertDiffin · Feb 27, 2014

EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB $150

bambiboom · Feb 27, 2014

dft3,

My concept of configuring workstation systems is to let the use (functions and scale of projects) drive the choice of applications, and the applications drive the hardware choices. And, after all that, keep a residual capacity to extend the uses.

The ideal system your list of uses and applications would include a pair of 6 or 8 core Xeons, a Quadro K5000, and at least 64GB of ECC RAM > read "$7,500+. This is because the uses and programs you've mentioned are the most complex and demanding. If you take the extreme program Catia, which can cost up to $30,000, plus a $6,000/yr support subscription may be used to design and detail every part commercial passenger jets, and then rendering can involve as many cores as can be dedicated. There are subtleties to this too, in that Solidworks and Catia must have workstation cards (Quadro or Firepro) that can run the special drivers that can run the viewports. And, ECC RAM is essential for artifact free renderings, and accurate simulations.

You have a very good list of possible programs to learn. I would say that the two fundamental programs would be AutoCad and Solidworks as these are industry standards. Rhino is gaining in popularity and is a favorite in schools> a friend of mine teaches at Otis, Los Angeles and loves it. I would add that Sketchup is so easy to use quickly, that it may be a consideration as well. If you are looking fro rendering and considering animation > 3DS Max and Maya are also becoming kind of standards. I suggest looking at as many job listings in your fields of interest as possible and list the programs the offices require. This is equally important for architecture students (see under> "Revit").

There is a big advantage in these system in having LGA2011 CPU's as those can be changed to have 4,6,8,10, and 12 core CPU's, there is a greater bandwidth, more PCIe lanes, more cache, and they can address more RAM- many single CPU boards support 512GB, dual CPU boards support 768GB or 1TB. For extreme digit pushing, there are 8-Xeon E7 boards that can use- 4TB or RAM.

That said, a $1,000 system requires a bit more calculation. It's not possible to have an LGA2011 Xeon in that budget, so future expansion is limited, but I believe that there could be reasonable results from this kind of system>

BambiBoom PixelDozer Cadamodagrapharic WalletJoyScream IWorkomatic ®©$$™®£™©™_ 2.18.14

1. Intel Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3 Haswell 3.3 / 3.7GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1150 80W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80646E31230V3 > $250 (This is about the best cost / performance Xeon

2. ASRock H87WS-DL ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1150 Intel H87 DDR3 1600/1333 > $130

3. 16GB RAM > (2) Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) ECC Registered Server Memory Model KVR16R11S8/4 > $188 ($47 ea)

4. AMD 100-505649(100-505844) FirePro V4900 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 Workstation Video Card > $155 (I''ve tried this one- very good for the price. This card performs about the same as a Quadro 2000, which is a $330 card)

5. Western Digital Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive, Blue > $65 (Very good performance for the cost)(Set up partitions for OS/Applications , Files, System Image. after loading, configuring, and updating everything, keep a pristine system image for quick restoration again failure, viruses, and just accumulation of errors. If I have to redo my HD, I'm out of businness and screaming for 3 days)

6. CORSAIR CXM series CX500M 500W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply > $60

7. SAMSUNG DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA Model SH-224DB/BEBE - OEM > $20

9. Corsair Carbide Series 200R Black Steel / Plastic compact ATX Mid Tower Case > $60

_______________________________________________________

Total = $928.

If you can stretch you budget, the following system I feel has a lot more potential > RE: upgrading to 6 or 8 core, more RAM, and has more potential benefit from higher end graphics cards >

BambiBoom PixelDozer Cadsolisworkarendgrapharific Blazomatic iWorkarama TurboScream 9000 ™$#©™_2.27.14

1. CPU > Intel Xeon Quad-Core Processor E5-1620 v2 3.7 / 3.9GHz 0GT/s 10MB LGA 2011 CPU, OEM> $295 (Superbiiz) (Notice the "3.7 / 3.9" part. Passmark CPU score= 9199, rank = No. 38)

2. CPU Cooler > Cooler Master Hyper T4 - CPU Cooler with 4 Direct Contact Heatpipes > $30 (The Stock CPU coolers are supposed to be sufficient, but I've seen terrifying temperatures when rendering.)

3. ASRock X79 Extreme3 LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $200

4. 16GB RAM > (4) Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) ECC Registered Server Memory Model KVR16R11S8/4 > $188 ($47 ea)

4. AMD 100-505649(100-505844) FirePro V4900 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 Workstation Video Card > $155.

5. WD BLACK SERIES WD1003FZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive> $89.

6. CORSAIR CXM series CX500M 500W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply > $60

7. Case > LIAN LI PC-7B plus II Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $70.

8. Optical Dr > SAMSUNG DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA Model SH-224DB/BEBE - OEM > $20

TOTAL = $1,107

____________________________

Good luck!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2014) > Xeon E5-1620 quad core @ 3.6 / 3.8GHz > 24GB ECC 1600 RAM > Quadro 4000 (2GB)> Samsung 840 SSD 250GB /Western Digital WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > AE3000 USB WiFi > HP 2711X, 27" 1920 X 1080 > Windows 7 Ultimate 64 > Autodesk Building Design Suite, Inventor Pro, Solidworks, Adobe CS MC, Corel Technical Design Sketchup Pro, WordP Office, MS Office Pro [Passmark system rating = 3815, 2D= 767 / 3D=2044]

Dell Precision T5400 (2008) > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @3.16GHz > 16GB ECC 667> Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) > WD RE4 500GB / Seagate Barracuda 500GB > M-Audio 2496 Sound Card / Linksys 600N WiFi > Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit > (earlier versions) AutoCad, Revit, Solidworks, Sketchup Pro, Corel Technical Designer, Adobe CS MC, WordP Office, MS Office Pro [Passmark system rating = 1859, 2D= 512 / 3D=1097]

dft3 · Feb 27, 2014

Thank you for the detailed response, bambiboom. I am familiar with the firepro v4900 and I am surprised I didnt think of that before (some sort of 2gb FirePro comes on most of our lab computers). I just have a couple questions regarding those builds:

out of curiousity, what are the advantages of using the "server registered RAM" and the server motherboard? I really dont know anything about servers.

As for the RAM in the second build, can I use the server ram in that motherboard? Also if you could point me out to where you found it for that price I would appreciate it.

I was also planning on using a SSD to boot the OS and a couple of the programs (Right e now i have a SSD in both my laptop and my gaming computer and I have to admit i am quite spoiled by the boot speed of both of them

), I'm guessing, or i should say hoping, that a SSD would be fine to add to either of those builds?

Thanks for the help!
Dan

bambiboom · Feb 27, 2014

dft3 :

Dan,

Yes, I've been very Quadro-centric the last ten-twelve years and was quite surprised with the Firepro V4900 in the HP and intend to compare it to the Quadro FX 4800 in the Dell Precision. The FX 4800 in the Dell was $1,200 new ($150 used to me) and had a specific version for Adobe CS4- whcih I used to use- and there are still drivers specifically to use an FX 4800 for Solidworks- which I still use. Still, I expect the V4900 will probably perform somewhat better in 3D- such is progress.

Both suggested system use ECC RAM- which is the kind used in all servers except probably home NAS. ECC RAM does constant parity checks to ensure accuracy. This increases the latency slightly, but means that waveforms, complex scientific and financial calculations and databases/ data in servers do not accumulate errors during many, many transfers, copies. In rendering, ECC ensures a lack of artifacts, accurate shadows, placements of particles, and reflections. Workstation graphics cards have error-correction also. I tried a GTX 285- which has the same 512-bit GPU as a Quadro FX 5800- but there were so many odd shadows and artifacts in renderings, I went to the FX 4800.

With RAM for any build, the best approach is to consult the lists of tested compatible RAM that the motherboard maker posts on their site. These specifications change often and it's worth finding the exact model number that is known to work. This is especially true with server RAM as there is registered and un-registered, and of course the various speeds. so, if you pursue any build, check the MB site for tested RAM. BTW, a Xeon E5 V2 like the E5-1620 V2, can use the new 1866 native speed ECC RAM. The difficulty is finding motherboards that list using it, but it would be worth looking into boards that use 1866- perhaps it's only a BIOs update away? With very complex 3D modeling, RAM speed does seem to make a noticeable difference.

With my HP z420, I added a 250GB Samsung Series 840 and created two partitions, 1> OS /Applications 219GB and 2. Working Files (8GB). The 2nd partition ended up being tiny as I wanted the 1st partition to have at least 20% open space and it has about 55GB. The second HD is a WD Black 1TB which has three partitions 1. Files 2. Archived and sound Files, and 3. System images. The way I use this is to load any large 3D model into the Working Files partition on the SSD and then use the File partition as "backup" until completion. The reason for this is less the loading time than the fact that some files seem to take forever to save. Sketchup is the worst for this. I have a 102MB model and I had to turn off autosave after it was 80MB or it would take 3minutes out of every 15. With the SSD it saves very quickly.

I think of the SSD as an enhancement but not essential overall. Given an either/or I would put the $250 into a better graphics card before an SSD and add the SSD later. Another consideration > As SSD's can be prematurely aged by de-fragging, what I did with the HP was to load, update, configure, optimize and generally fuss about everything on the mechanical drive and then migrate to the SSD in a consolidated, and "smart file placement" condition- thus saving wear on the SSD memory.

One other note. No absolute guarantees, but if you are adventurous and a smart Ebayer, you might consider a used Quadro GPU. I have had very good luck. Since 2004, I've bought 4 used used Quadros- FX570, FX580, FX4800, and recently a "new other" 4000. The FX4800 was new $1,200 but I bought it 18 months old for $150. The Quadro 4000 is a $750 card, but cost $290 still sealed in the bag. It takes patience to find a good one for a good price, but I have never had a failure. All four of the used Quadros are still in working systems and the FX 570 dates from 2003. These cards are built to run continuously at full tilt, and that plus the specialized drivers is the reason they are so much more expensive. Of course, in a new system, you may well opt for all new components, but there is an option. My plan is to wait until I can buy a used Quadro K5000- which I think is the ideal workstation card today- for about $800 - which I expect might be a year or so away.

I emphasize the performance/quality of the GPU as the programs you will using may run well in simpler, less complex projects, but the fall-off in performance in 3D modeling is very rapid as soon as the project complexity increases. I have a current Sketchup model of 40MB and with a relatively fast system, I still have to turn layers off and navigate in monochrome to get any work done. I may be in the minority but I would steer towards an excellent GPU and even a used one before an SSD or very large storage drive. I would rather have the OS ,apps, and files load a bit more slowly initially than wait during working for stuttering navigation and long regens.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

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