Will this build stay cool enough?

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Muckster

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I'm thinking about this build (thanks logainofhades for the help)

CPU: Xeon E3 1230 v3
GPU: Sapphire R9 290 tri-x
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-B85-HD3
Mem: 16GB DDR3-1600
Case: Fractal Design R4
PSU: Corsair RM 650
HDD, SDD, CD yet to be decided, Win 8

Q: I was thinking about adding another exhaust fan (140-200mm) to help vent and create a little positive pressure, but other than that this is the build I was considering. Does it look like this will be enough to keep things cool?

Q: What CPU fan/cooler should I use for the Xeon?

Q: Gigabyte GA-B85-HD3. It doesn't look like this mobo has much in the way of fan regulation. Is there a better mobo in the same price range that would have better fan control and still support the Xeon? I'd prefer the build not to be any louder than it needs to be.

Any comments or criticism about this build are appreciated. However, I should mention that I plan to keep this build for 5-6 years then pass it down to a family member. I plan to never overclock the CPU and never upgrade the hardware which is why I chose the Xeon over the i5/i7 and why I opted for 16 instead of 8 gb memory. Please note that according to Anandtech, the Sapphire model has made huge strides over the stock R9 290 in terms of heat and noise.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7601/sapphire-radeon-r9-290-review-our-first-custom-cooled-290

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!
 
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logainofhades
A 4770 is pointless when the 1230 v3 is so much cheaper. It is an i7 without IGP that has added ECC support. They work in normal desktop boards, with regular DDR3 ram. They run cooler than an i7 due to the lack of IGP. The TDP of a 1230 v3 is lower than an i5 or i7. There are a few people on here running 1230 v2/v3 on here.
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HiTechObsessed

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The B85 motherboards made by Gigabyte are perfectly fine. Gigabyte doesn't skimp on their lower-end boards like MSI and AsRock tend to do. And if you're not looking to overclock, you definitely don't need the watercoolers. You could get something like the Hyper 212 EVO just to make it much quieter.

The 290, especially the Tri-X, doesn't get as hot as the 290x, so you're probably fine with the fans that come with the R4. Everything you listed looks good to me :)
 
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verma1891

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What is the purpose of your system? If this for gaming(which it probably is) you should really consider the i5 4670 and save some money over there. And get an H87 chipset. An H87 chipset is a z87 chipset minus the overclocking ability. Even if you dont want to change the CPU, here is a good H87 board-http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-h87plus
Or this one-http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-motherboard-h87g43

Install fans on your cabinet in such a fashion that the front ones and the side ones intake and the rear and top ones exhausts air.

Cooler Master Hyper 212 evo is great for air cooling. Since you wont be overclocking, I dont see a need of liquid cooler.

As far as I know, the sapphire tri-x is the coolest 290.
 
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HiTechObsessed,

Thanks for you comments on this an other posts. I'm glad to hear you think the heat should be handled with the proposed build even without the extra fan and I'll take a look at the Hyper 212 EVO to make things quieter. In terms of noise, don't you think I'd have an advantage with a mobo that had better fan controls or is it just not an issue?

lackysami,
Thanks for your comment, but as I mentioned, I don't ever plan to upgrade so SLI is not a concern. I agree watercooling would be better, but is it necessary? Do you have reason to think this case wouldn't be cool enough as I stated it?

LavyDunois,
Yes, I plan to use this build for gaming so it will be under heavy loads at times. My thinking with the Xeon is, this.. I plan to never overclock the CPU and I don't need the IGP because I'll have the Sapphire, and the Xeon/i7 hyperthreading might come in handy for future gaming but the Xeon is considerably cheaper than the i7. Therefore, the Xeon seem to be the better choice. If my logic is flawed, please correct me.

As for cooling, I think you are right that options are more limited. So the first question is will this build, as I stated it, keep things cool enough? I'm not planning to upgrade the hardware, there's no need to worry about future changes. This is why I thought having a mobo with better fan controls would be an advantage if it turns out I need more case fans. Are you aware of Xeon-supporting mobos in this price range that would offer fan controls?
 
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logainofhades

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The 1230v3 does have a good price/performance. An i7 without IGP for $60 less than a 4770, and only $12 more than a 4670k, is a good deal for the non overclocker. For cooling, a hyper 212 evo is sufficient. B85 is fine unless you want a raid array or run more than one GPU. For a single card setup, with an SSD and a large HDD, even H81 is good enough. I am a sapphire fan when it comes to GPU's. All of my AMD cards are Sapphire and have been good to me.
 
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LavyDunois

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I am not that on the know with Xeon's vs i7's.
But CPUs are like tools, they each are designed for specific purposes.
I would still suggest an, i5 4670 (appearantly it does exist hurray) or an i7 4770.

On the cooling part i think i was wrong about it beeing limited since that CPU uses the same Haswell socket 1150.
I am not really sure how hot those Xeons get compared to 1150 i5 / i7's.

Do you prefer silence above cooling? Air cooled or Liquid cooled?
 
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verma1891,

Yes, the purpose is gaming so it will run a high load from time to time. Looking at the i5 4770 it going for about $210 at partpicker compared to $245 for the Xeon so that's a $35 savings, but I would lose the potential benefit of hyperthreading. I think the non-xeon boards you mentioned look good, particularly the Asus which has excellent fan controls. It's going for $110 and the MSI for $100 so I'd be spending $15-25 more for the board to support the i5 for a net difference in builds of about $10-$25. That's a negligible difference to me, so I'd have to consider the overall benefits. The i5 has .1 more clock but lacks hyperthreading and going i5 I'd get better fan control. Are their xeon-supporting boards that have fan control or is this just not an option? Is there anything about xeon supporting board vs. the i5 supporting board that I should be considering? What are some pros/cons I'm not understanding besides?

I guess it comes back to whether or not I'll need the extra cooling and quieter build that fan control might provide. I could install the fans as you suggest but for noise I'd rather avoid it if possible. I guess the real question is will I need them?

Thanks for your advice.
 
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logainofhades

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A 4770 is pointless when the 1230 v3 is so much cheaper. It is an i7 without IGP that has added ECC support. They work in normal desktop boards, with regular DDR3 ram. They run cooler than an i7 due to the lack of IGP. The TDP of a 1230 v3 is lower than an i5 or i7. There are a few people on here running 1230 v2/v3 on here.
 
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Logainofhades,

Thanks for you feedback. Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like I could get the i5 4670 for around $210 putting it $35 less than Xeon, but I'd lose the hyperthreading while gaining .1 Mhz. Then, the mobos would be more expensive maybe by $10-$25 so the costs are about a wash. Sounds like you'd advice to stick with the Xeon. Even if you're pretty confident I wouldn't need a fan controlling board for better cooling, do you think I'd benefit from a i5 4670k/Aus H87-PLUS in terms of noise reduction (because of the better fan controls)? That's something I'm secondarily concerned about but it's so hard to know what noise I'll have until it's all together.

So is it fair to say I won't find a Xeon-supporting mobo WITH fan controls for about the same price as the gigabyte? Given my build, are there any key features I'd be missing out on by not going with something like the Asus H87-PLUS? I assume it's got all the bells and whistles in terms of bus speeds, USB/SSD speeds, etc.

Again, considering I won't be upgrading the hardware, what would I be giving up if I went with the H81 ($50) instead of the H85 ($85)? Still a quality board that supports the latest SSD, USB, system Mem, etc?

I've heard that intel has been asking mobo makers to not support Xeon CPUs on consumer based motherboards. Is there any concern that the latest productions of the B85 or H81 won't support Xeon? Technically speaking, what specs do I look for to know for sure if a board supports the Xeon?

Finally, I know you had some good suggestions for me back in January but I've been waiting out the bitcoin prices and intend to wait longer, maybe a month, for that Sapphire to come down in price. If anything about your suggestions have changed with the passing of time, please let me know. Thanks for all your help.

Oh, and what about the stock fan that comes with the Xeon? Is in good enough in terms of cooling? Noise?
 
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LavyDunois

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Oh wow learned something new today. Some Xeon's are better in price / performance compared to i7's.
logainofhades do you have one that can be compared to my i7 4930K? :p

You could also get and fan controller that can sit in your 3.5 inch bay so you can manually tune it.
It runs cooler then an i7 so going cpu air cooled is a nice one.

Cpu cooler:
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo The 1150 socket isn't displayed here but the coolermaster site says it does support the 1150.

And don't use the stock fans. Please. :no:
 
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verma1891

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I would like to clear up some things-
1. About HT in games- (article from overclock.net)
It seems there isn't any real pattern between hyperthreading and non-hyperthreading at same clock rates. They trade blows and all results are very close, but if one had to choose a winner, turning HT off seems to yield slightly better framerates. But for simplicity's sake, the verdict is: Hyperthreading neither helps nor hurts when gaming.
and
Always choose a higher clockspeed over hyperthreading for gaming.

2. B85 and H87- H87 is mostly about connections, ssd caching etc. If you dont need them, B85 is OK. Read comparison here-http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4444/2/33-haswell-motherboard-group-test-26x-z87-4x-h87-and-3x-b85-the-three-chipsets-b85-h87-and-z87

3. MSI H87 G43 supports xeon.

4. The xeon 1230v3 is basically a 4770 without IGP and overclocking. And since i5 performs at par with i7 in games, i5 is suggested as it saves you some bucks. And ASrock h87 pro4 http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-h87pro4 is available at $88.
.
5. You seem to be pressing on HT. Do you really need it? Most of games as of today dont even use all the physical cores.

6. Installation of more fans: it will be good to decide after building whether you need them or not.
 
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logainofhades

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I have yet to see an H81/B85/h87/z87 board that didn't support the 1230v3. They do not run hotter than an i5/i7. They actually run cooler, hence the lower TDP. That B85 board has fan controls.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4566#ov

H81 boards tend to have only 2 ram slots, only support up to 16gb ram due to this, less SATA ports, fewer USB's, ect. For most people, H81 or B85 is sufficient. Still, for a single card, non overclock system, that will not use anything more than an optical drive, 1 ssd, and a large storage drive, you really don't need the extra stuff. Only enthusiasts, or someone looking for a cheap file server, really feel the need for H87 or Z87.

This H81 board has fan controls. If you feel you will need the 4 ram slots, stick with the B85.
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H81MA/#overview


 
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logainofhades

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The 4930k is the best price/performance chip for your socket. Only the 1230 v3, 1240 v3, and 1245v3 are prices lower than their i7 counterparts.
 
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verma1891/logainofhades,

Seems you guys are arguing for opposing builds. I've gotten a little sloppy with the CPUs mentioned and prices for same. To be clear, verma, you're talking about the i5 4670K. Breaking it down, the i5 has 0.1 Ghz more power. The Xeon has HT, runs slightly cooler and has ECC support (although I don't really know how significant ECC support is). I realize HT isn't important to current gaming but there's a possibility it would be advantageous in future. The i5 4670k is currently about $15 cheaper. Does this about sum it up? Have I missed anything?

I admit to being ignorant on the difference between H81, H85, and H87 and I will do my homework on these but while the thread is hot I'm going to keep with it. I really don't know or understand if the features of the H87 are worth it. For example, I'd like faster SSD access, but is it really significantly better with the H87? That said, the prices differences between the three boards isn't too great. Gig H81..$75, Gig H85... $85, MSI H87... $95 or $90 for the i5-supporting H87 ASRock board. Assuming I'm not losing a lot of quality going from Gig to MSI/ASRock, if I can get slightly better SSD speeds or obtain other small benefits, then $10-$20 seems an acceptable price to pay.

In my foolishness I didn't realize the Gigabyte H81 & H85 & MSI H87 have fan controls so this point is mute and apologize for raising it.

Build A
CPU: Xeon... $245
Mobo: MSI H87 G43... $97
total: $342

Bulid B
CPU: i5 4670K...... currently $230, but it looks like I could pick it up for $210 if I wait for a deal.
mobo: ASRock H87 Pro4...$89
$299-$319

I haven't researched the ASRock so I don't know if it's the same quality as the Gigabyte H87 or support as many relevant features, but this build does seem cheaper.

Bottom line is that Build A and Build B are close enough in price that cost wouldn't be so much a concern to me. Assuming I could adequately cool either build, which of these two would provide the best performance and likely be more quiet? Is there anything I missed regarding their differences?

For my purposes, will the stock fan on the Xeon 1230 or i5 4670k be adequate?

Edit: I see this GA-H87M-HD3 over at newegg for $93. Seems the consensus is that Gigabyte offers superior quality so might I use this with the Xeon for Build A in place of the MSI? It would even bring the cost down $5 to $337.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128631

The last thing I'll mention is that I may get some USB speakers, use a USB webcam, and occasionally run a USB drive for some videos I have. My PSU seems good at 650, so I assume these don't change any of the recommendations.
 
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logainofhades

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Getting a 4670k would require a more expensive Z87 board. No point in getting a k series chip if not overclocking. Crysis 3 and BF4 both benefit from HT, and this trend will continue going forward. I would get at least a Coolermaster TX3 cooler. The stock coolers are horrible. I would stick with build A, given you are not overclocking and not intending to upgrade the CPU. Asrock has good Intel boards. I own two of them. A p67 extreme4 and a z77 extreme4. The Gigabyte B85, form earlier, is still sufficient for you. H87 is only really necessary if you want to do any kind of raid configuration. The SSD performance will not be significantly different as long as you are using the sata 6Gb/s ports.
 
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LavyDunois

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Don't use stock coolers Muckster. They are really horrible.
At this moment HT is not really needed for gaming. It is coming, but no idea when games are going to support it. I know BF4 supports it, that beeing said it's the only one i know of.

i5 4670
You didn't want to OC? Then this one is better / cheaper.
 
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logainofhades,

To be clear you're saying the ASRock H87 Pro4 actually won't work with the i5? The cheaper K-less 4670 would mean it costs around $218 with me maybe getting it for $210 if I wait for a deal. Not too different from the $210-$230 I was assuming for the 4670K. I don't know which Z87 board I would need to support the i5, but a quick look suggests it would significantly up the cost of Build B.

I can't imagine needing more than 16GB in the next 5-6 years, so if you really don't think I'll benefit from the features of the H85 or H87, I supposed I could do H81. However, the Asus you linked is a Micro-ATX and I'd like to use the Fractal Design R4 which is a mid-ATX. (that said I would have maybe preferred the fan controls on the Asus if the quality was there). I couldn't find an Asus H81 with mid-atx support and the only non-micro gigabyte I found on parts picker was this one for $75.:
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gah81ampup

Would this work or do you have a different mid-ATX H81 you'd recommend for the Xeon?

I think you replied to my last post before I got my edit in. I'll repost it here to see if this changes anything:

Edit: I see this GA-H87M-HD3 over at newegg for $93. Seems the consensus is that Gigabyte offers superior quality so might I use this with the Xeon for Build A in place of the MSI? It would even bring the cost down $5 to $337.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The last thing I'll mention is that I may get some USB speakers, use a USB webcam, and occasionally run a USB drive for some videos I have. My PSU seems good at 650, so I assume these don't change any of the recommendations.
 
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logainofhades

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The k series chip would work, but paying for an unlocked CPU that you can't overclock, due to improper board, is kinda silly. Mid tower cases will support a Micro-ATX board just fine. My Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 Micro ATX is in a mid tower diablotek case from Microcenter. At $93, you are edging pretty close to budget Z87 board territory.
 
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verma1891

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I think you are confused with chipsets. You dont want to OC, but to be very frank, i5 4670k will provide you the most bang for buck It easily oc's to 4.2 at stock voltages with a good fan. OC is free performance. Still No OC? Ok, your choice. BNut understand boards
i5-4670 (NON K)- will work with any 1150 socket, should not be paired with z87 because oc capability of z87 will not be utilized.- $209.
i5-4670k- will work with any 1150 socket, should be paired with Z87 because H87 doesnt support OC. $229.
Xeon one- Z87 board is useless here, h87, b85 select acc to your needs.

The K at the end means unlocked (can be oc'ed) processor.
 
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verma,

Thanks again for your patience and thoughtful advice. I've been at this all morning. I agree the 4670k is more bang for buck IF I overclock. The reason I don't want to do this is because I don't want to have to worry about it or monitor it and I want the PC to last 5-6 years and then be able to pass it down and not have to worry about a shortened life span. Also, an OCed CPU means more heat and so more cooling which means more noise, which is another aspect I'm trying to avoid. This all started with me trying to meet/beat a PS4/Xbox one and I think I've done that with the Xeon/Sapphire. My thinking is that the PS3 has lasted 7 years and with the PS4/Xbox just coming out last year, I figure game designers won't stray to far ahead of the consoles for another 5-6 years. In short, I just don't think I'll need more than the Xeon's 3.3. So, for me, the bottom line is, do you think the i5 4670 is the most bang for buck IF I do NOT overclock?

And the major follow up question is, am I missing out on any significant functions by using a motherboard that only supports H81 or H85, again given my parameters that I will never upgrade the hardware and never overclock the CPU?

I want to be clear that to my thinking this isn't a right/wrong situation between you and logainofhades. The builds are very close and I'm having a hard time seeing a big difference and both of you have made good arguments. Sorry for the few times I misunderstood your posts.

You say $229 for the i5 4670k, but with these sales that come and go I think I could probably get it for closer to $210. If I do require a Z87 board for this CPU, then what board would you recommend? Likewise, what do you like in a CPU cooler?

Thanks so much again. Sorry in every way that I've made this harder than it should have been.
 
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logainofhades

logainofhades

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The length of time you intend to keep this sytem, and your concerns with regards to overclocking, I say the Xeon is the better choice. 4670k would require a more expensive cooler for overclocking. I don't think you are really losing much, given your needs, by going H81 or B85. Pick the board that has the features you feel you need. Compare them side by side on newegg if you need to. If you intend to only do a single GPU, no overclock, one SSD, single large storage HDD, and an optical drive, H81 would be sufficient, unless you needed more USB than what ASUS H81M-A offers.
 
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verma1891

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I reaally cannot comment on a processor's lifetime with or without OC since I havent seen or tested it. However, the life of these things do get affected by temps. I think its a matter of luck how long the chip will keep working. About future proofing, the most powerful builds of today will be on their knees after 3 years I gurantee.
About monitoring, once you get a stable oc with OK temps, you can totally forget about it.
Yes, I think you should get the i5 4670 with an H87 board if you dont want to overclock. The beating console thing, you are putting 290x in your build. It will be like racing when the console would not be able to even note your number plate.

However, if you change your mood(which is not necessary) and get an i5 4670k, z87 board should accompany it. Yes the 4670k was available @$209 3 days ago and it may be on sale again, maybe not. This is a great budget z87 board-http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-z87k .

i am not pressing you to change your xeon decision, I am just asking you to consider once that do you need hyperthreading in a gaming rig? If OC is free performance, why not get it?

Yes, a non oc'ed system may be a bit cooler and silent.
Think about these points. I assure you any decision you make will not make you regret, whether it be the xeon, 4570 or 4570k.
We are here to help!!
And goodnight!! I am retiring to bed, ttyl!!
 
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verma1891,

Okay, thanks for all your help. I'm gonna do a little more research, but I have as much as I need from you guys to make a decision about the core components and I thank you very kindly for your time and advice. I hope you're having a good sleep.

logainofhades,

Thanks for your patience and I appreciate you peeking in on this thread. At the end of the day I think the Xeon is the best choice for me. I just need to take a little harder look at the mobos as you suggest.

Oh, any chance I could get by with a 550W PSU? I'm thinking about upgrading to something a little quieter like the Kingwin Lazer Platinum
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/kingwin-power-supply-lzp550
 
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