Raid Solution for Mid Range Build

Joelsjet · Mar 3, 2014

Hi All,

I have a bit of a problem. I'm making a mid range build for my parents, with a budget around $1500-$2000 AU with some room to move. So I have some questions about Raid

So I was looking at getting a WD Velocirapter 500GB and a SanDisk Extreme II Solid State Drive 120GB for the OS and Application. I'm sure I remember seeing a way to have the drives setup so the ssd does the work but if it fails the hd takes over to keep the system running/will boot. Is there a way to do this?

But for gross storage we are going with Wd Black 4TB Drives In Raid 1. Firstly do you think that the larger capacity drives are as reliable? I do have a core understanding of hd's and how errors are corrected.

Now for the major question... and many of you aren't going to like me for asking this again, but.

Should we use Software Raid, The Mobo's Raid or Get a Dedicated Raid Card?. I'm honestly leaning towards using Win 7 to do it, nice and simple, done it before a thousand times but I wasn't sure so i thought i better ask.

So anyone have any comments.

Thanks,

USAFRet · Mar 3, 2014

So I was looking at getting a WD Velocirapter 500GB and a SanDisk Extreme II Solid State Drive 120GB in Raid 1 for the OS and Application.

Noooo. That is SUCH a bad idea.

A 500GB HDD + 120GB SSD + RAID 1 = a 120GB 'drive', slower than the SSD.

But for gross storage we are going with Wd Black 4TB Drives In Raid 1.

Why?

I see way too expensive drives in here, with no real gain for a typical desktop.
What will this be used for?
Why have you started down the RAID path? There are much easier, safer ways to retain data in case of a drive fail. A RAID setup is only really needed if you need absolute continuous operations. As in you're running a webstore, and loss of a drive = loss of sales.
And you still need a real, tested, backup.

What is the use for this thing?

Joelsjet · Mar 4, 2014

Yeah your right about the Velocirapter and SSD thing, but i wasn't talking about putting them in raid necessarily.
This build is mostly just for plain PC use, no gaming but it needs to last for ages and be all round quick, plus capable of watching/editing high res vids (4k sometimes).

I am completely open to suggestions, what would you use for your drives. We cant loose any data, and we want an easy solution if the ssd starts muckin us about.

Also there has been a change, instead of LGA 2011 im going to go back to LGA1150. not sure what mobo yet.

USAFRet · Mar 4, 2014

RAID 1 is great for certain uses. Like if you're running a webstore, and downtime = lost sales.
It mirrors across both drives. But is also faithfully mirrors accidental file deletions, viruses, corruption, etc. You still need an actual backup. It is only really good for an actual drive fail.

For the vast majority of home users, it is absolutely not needed.
You just need to determine exactly what we are trying to save in the event things go bad. OS and applications are trivially replaced/reinstalled. Pictures of my grandson from 3 years ago aren't.
And with a RAID setup, there are more things that can go bad.

If the RAID array crashes...poof
If you update Windows? Might have to start it from scratch
If a dedicated RAID card goes south...poof.

What I would do is this (and this is quite similar to my current setup):
120GB or 256GB SSD. Samsung 840 EVO is a good choice.
Boot OS and probably all applications.

So...ditch the RAID, and simplify things. There are quite a few applications that will, on schedule, copy and sync files and folders across drives and machines. SyncBack Free does this very easily.

2, 3, or 4 WD Blue or Black, in whatever size you prefer. Possibly, one of these is an external USB drive.
2 drives in the case, and 1 external or connected to another PC.

Redirect the default locations for Documents/Pictures/etc to HDD 1. Easy to do, links at the bottom.

Once everything is installed and running, use one of the many imaging tools to create an image of the SSD in its current state. The OS and whatever applications you've installed on it. This gets saved to HDD 2.
Maybe redo this once a month or so.

Also for HDD 2, use the above mentioned SyncBack Free to copy whatever folders that contain your personal data into a series of folders. Put the schedule at every 12 hours. Behind the scenes, it copies new or changed files over.
These are just regular files, and can be read by anything. I don't have to attempt to rebuild a RAID array, or depend on specific hardware being present. These are just regular files (Word/Excel/jog/etc).

HDD 3 lives in the external drive, or on another device on the LAN.
This gets a nightly schedule. Every night at 2AM, whatever folders I've designated gets copied over to that.

So I basically have 3 copies of any critical docs. In the regular Windows Doc/Pics/Video folders, a twice a day copy to HDD 2, and a nightly copy to HDD 3(External).
In case of a major disaster, all I have to do is grab one of the laptops and that external, and head out the door. Those files can be read from anything. Even if I have to go to a friends house and plug it in, or a PC at work.

My main PC could melt into a pile of goo, and my irreplaceable data still exists.

And don't fret over the SSD reliability. Torture tests have shown they are more reliable and longer lasting than spinning drives.

Links to redirect stuff from the SSD Docs folders:
Win 7 & 8: http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-1834397/ssd-redirecting-static-files.html
Win 8.1: http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2024314/windows-redirecting-folders-drives.html

Joelsjet · Mar 5, 2014

USAFRet :

RAID 1 is great for certain uses. Like if you're running a webstore, and downtime = lost sales.
It mirrors across both drives. But is also faithfully mirrors accidental file deletions, viruses, corruption, etc. You still need an actual backup. It is only really good for an actual drive fail.

For the vast majority of home users, it is absolutely not needed.
You just need to determine exactly what we are trying to save in the event things go bad. OS and applications are trivially replaced/reinstalled. Pictures of my grandson from 3 years ago aren't.
And with a RAID setup, there are more things that can go bad.

If the RAID array crashes...poof
If you update Windows? Might have to start it from scratch
If a dedicated RAID card goes south...poof.

What I would do is this (and this is quite similar to my current setup):
120GB or 256GB SSD. Samsung 840 EVO is a good choice.
Boot OS and probably all applications.

So...ditch the RAID, and simplify things. There are quite a few applications that will, on schedule, copy and sync files and folders across drives and machines. SyncBack Free does this very easily.

2, 3, or 4 WD Blue or Black, in whatever size you prefer. Possibly, one of these is an external USB drive.
2 drives in the case, and 1 external or connected to another PC.

Redirect the default locations for Documents/Pictures/etc to HDD 1. Easy to do, links at the bottom.

Once everything is installed and running, use one of the many imaging tools to create an image of the SSD in its current state. The OS and whatever applications you've installed on it. This gets saved to HDD 2.
Maybe redo this once a month or so.

Also for HDD 2, use the above mentioned SyncBack Free to copy whatever folders that contain your personal data into a series of folders. Put the schedule at every 12 hours. Behind the scenes, it copies new or changed files over.
These are just regular files, and can be read by anything. I don't have to attempt to rebuild a RAID array, or depend on specific hardware being present. These are just regular files (Word/Excel/jog/etc).

HDD 3 lives in the external drive, or on another device on the LAN.
This gets a nightly schedule. Every night at 2AM, whatever folders I've designated gets copied over to that.

So I basically have 3 copies of any critical docs. In the regular Windows Doc/Pics/Video folders, a twice a day copy to HDD 2, and a nightly copy to HDD 3(External).
In case of a major disaster, all I have to do is grab one of the laptops and that external, and head out the door. Those files can be read from anything. Even if I have to go to a friends house and plug it in, or a PC at work.

My main PC could melt into a pile of goo, and my irreplaceable data still exists.

And don't fret over the SSD reliability. Torture tests have shown they are more reliable and longer lasting than spinning drives.

Links to redirect stuff from the SSD Docs folders:
Win 7 & 8: http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-1834397/ssd-redirecting-static-files.html
Win 8.1: http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2024314/windows-redirecting-folders-drives.html

Thanks USAFRet great answer and very helpful.

So we have decided on a 120GB SSD for the os, a WD Black 3TB for data and a WD Green 4TB to hold the clone of os, the backup of the WD Black drive, which leaves 880Gb to backup our other two pc's to. Plus a little external usb drive we already have for superimportant data. Thanks for the help, i think we've found our solution now!

Regards,
Joel

USAFRet · Mar 5, 2014

Joelsjet :

You're welcome. And good luck !

Joelsjet · Mar 6, 2014

Hey so this is what i ended up with, what do you think

Intel Core i3 4340 3.6Ghz
Corsair Hydro H75 Cooler
Asus Z87M-Plus
Corsair Obsidian 350D
Gigabyte Geforce GTX 750
Asus Bluray-Burner
Corsair CS750M
Corsair DDR3 Daul 8Gb
WD Digital Black 3Tb
WD Digital Green 4Tb
Samsung 840 EVO 120Gb
Asus 24in Widescreen Monitor

Thats the Bulk of the Gear anyway

Joel

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