Building a pc for 3d software

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xXLaraXx

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Hi everyone,

I want to build my own pc, that is capable of running the following listed software. I have been doing some review online, and set up a system that is listed below. However, I need your help and suggestions on this system, as this will be the first pc that I will build myself. I do not know for sure if the chosen parts go together, or if one of the parts really is the bottleneck (or overpowered) for the system.

I would like to spend under €1000, but I am willing to go up to €1200 if necessary. The country I live in is the Netherlands.

Apart from the software listed below, I would like to use the PC for some gaming, but this is of less importance.


Software:

  • ■ 3ds max (with V-Ray): CPU used to render normally. For V-Ray RT GPU used to render. info
    ■ ZBrush: ZBrush is software rendered. Choice of GPU will not matter. info
    ■ Mari: Geforce GTX, or Quadro with at least 1 GB of RAM info

    ■ Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator: Requirements not that high? info
    ■ Mathworks MATLAB: Requirements not that high? info
    ■ Autodesk Inventor: Core i7 info
    ■ Autodesk Mudbox: Requirements not that high? info

Suggested System:

  • ■ CPU: Intel i7 4770k €290 here
    ■ CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 €70 here
    ■ Motherboard: Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H €150 here
    ■ Memory: Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 16GB (2x8GB) € 140 here
    ■ SSD: Samsung 840 series Pro 256GB € 180 here
    ■ HDD: 2x WD Blue WD10EZEX, 1TB € 2x 50 = € 100 here
    ■ GPU: GTX 760 (or should I go for quadro?) € 220 here
    ■ PSU: Be quiet! Power Zone 850W €120 here
Total cost: € 1070

Thank you very much in advance for all the help.
Also a big thanks for the other posts and replies in this forum on similar topics!

Lara
 
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bambiboom
Goedemorgen xXLaraXx,

This kind of system is somewhat difficult because the applications you are using make such different demands that the system has to be fantastic at everything. Gaming systems are easier to specify because everything concentrates on high frame rates.

In my view, the use of viewport software, MATLAB, and rendering requires a Xeon, ECC RAM< and Quadro / Firepro. This is because of the single and double precision required in MATLAB, and rendering needs ECC to have accurate shadows, reflection, color gradients, and particles. Viewport software like 3Ds and Maya needs a worskstation card to run the viewports properly and the drivers also provide higher anti-aliasing- I can can 128X in Solidworks.

I also...
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nashdes001

nashdes001

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gtx 760 would b good choice for rendering + gaming
psu u need 650w
Planning to Overclock cpu?
then no need to get a k version and z87 mobo
and stock cooler is enough or u can buy hyper 212 evo which is cheap and good cooler to keep temp down
get a better brand psu seasonic xfx antec etc 650w
 
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xXLaraXx

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Hi Nashdes,

Thank you for the response.

I am not planning to overclock, if it does not mean a significant increase of performance (risk of overheating when overclocking??).
I held the option of overclocking open by choosing the 'k' version.
I did not know that without the 'k' version, I can choose another mobo.

PSU: Seasonic G-Serie 650Watt €100 here

For the motherboard, would the 'Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H' suffice if I choose for the Intel i7 4770 (without 'k')?
I have no knowledge about the chipset Intel z87 or Intel B85, nor do I know what difference it makes.
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Goedemorgen xXLaraXx,

This kind of system is somewhat difficult because the applications you are using make such different demands that the system has to be fantastic at everything. Gaming systems are easier to specify because everything concentrates on high frame rates.

In my view, the use of viewport software, MATLAB, and rendering requires a Xeon, ECC RAM< and Quadro / Firepro. This is because of the single and double precision required in MATLAB, and rendering needs ECC to have accurate shadows, reflection, color gradients, and particles. Viewport software like 3Ds and Maya needs a worskstation card to run the viewports properly and the drivers also provide higher anti-aliasing- I can can 128X in Solidworks.

I also suggest strongly that an LGA2011 CPU is best as these have a high bandwidth, more PCIE lanes, and have a higher RAM capacity than LGA1150. Importantly, the CPU can be changed later for a 6 or 8 core and that is an advantage in both MATLAB and rendering.

One problem is that good workstation graphics cards are expensive, in NL the price is €''s what is $ in the US. In the suggestion below, an AMD V4900 (1GB) is shown, and that is a very good card for the cost- the performance is about the same as a Quadro 2000, but a Quadro would be better your uses and a K2000 is about the appropriate level. However, in NL a Quadro K2000 is about €460. Is there a way that you could buy from the US without very high VAT?

I might mention that I have had five used Quadros in the last twelve years and ,because they are made to run continuously a long time, I have never had a failure. In my older system, I have a quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) that cost $1,200 new, that I bought when 18 months old for $150 and it has been running almost non-stop for four years. No guarantees, but if you are adventurous, you might consider it.

Anyway, here an idea >

BambiBoom PixelDozer Cadamatarendgrapharific Blazomatic ikWerkGeenSpelen TurboScream 9000 ™$#©™_3.10.14

CPU: Intel Xeon Quad-Core Processor E5-1620 v2 3.7 / 3.9GHz 0GT/s 10MB LGA 2011 CPU, OEM > €
260

https://www.companic.nl/product_info.php?products_id=5491086&ref=tweakers

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 €70

MOTHERBOARD: ASUS Z9PA-U8 > €225,50

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/354031/asus-z9pa-u8.html

RAM: Kingston 16GB 1600MHz ECC Kit (KTHPL316EK4/16G) > €214

tweakers.net/pricewatch/310284/kingston-16gb-1600mhz-ecc-kit-(kthpl316ek4-16g).html

SSD: Samsung 840 series Pro 256GB > € 180 here

■ HDD: 2x WD Blue WD10EZEX, 1TB > € 2x 50 = € 100

here

GPU: Sapphire AMD FirePro V4900 > € 138,50

http://tweakers.net/product/354950/sapphire-amd-firepro-v4900/

PSU: be quiet! System Power 7 600W > €69 http://tweakers.net/categorie/664/voedingen/producten
/#filter:q1ZKKkrMS_FMKVayijY0t4zVUSooykxO9c3MU7IyqAUA
______________________________________________________

TOTAL = €1188

Sorry, quite close to you upper limit. This does not include a case, Blu-Ray/DVD writer, or operating system.

As I say, somewhat difficult because of the range of capabilities required, but the performance should be good and later the CPU changed for more cores and the GPU for better 3D performance. I use some similar applications and my next GPU will be a Quadro K5000- when they are less than $1,000 used.

Mijn groeten aan mooie Nederland,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2014) > Xeon E5-1620 quad core @ 3.6 / 3.8GHz > 24GB ECC 1600 RAM > Quadro 4000 (2GB)> Samsung 840 SSD 250GB /Western Digital WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > AE3000 USB WiFi > HP 2711X, 27" 1920 X 1080 > Windows 7 Ultimate 64 >[Passmark system rating = 3815, 2D= 767 / 3D=2044]

Dell Precision T5400 (2008) > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @3.16GHz > 16GB ECC 667> Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) > WD RE4 500GB / Seagate Barracuda 500GB > M-Audio 2496 Sound Card / Linksys 600N WiFi > Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit >[Passmark system rating = 1859, 2D= 512 / 3D=1097]

[2D, 3D CAD, Image Processing, Rendering, Text > Architecture, industrial design, graphic design, written projects [AutoCad, 3ds Max, Vray, Solidworks, Sketchup Adobe CS, WordPerfect and MS Office]


 
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xXLaraXx

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Update: Forgot to include the case and peripheral equipment. Planning to order this:

  • ■ Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Pearl Black €85
    ■ Keyboard: Logitech K800 Wireless Illuminated Keyboard €80
    ■ Mouse: Logitech Wireless Marathon Mouse M705 €35
    ■ Mouse mat: Steelseries Qck €10
    ■ Monitor: Dell Ultrasharp U2412M Zwart €230
Any suggestions? Especially the combination of the suggested parts and the case?
 
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xXLaraXx

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Thank you BambiBoom for your response and well-supported choices. A few questions if I may :)

  • ■ RAM: Why choose for (more expensive) 4x4GB modules, instead of 2x8GB. If I would ever like to expand the RAM, then I can insert extra 8GB modules? Or is this because of the 'ECC RAM'?
    ■ GPU: The Sapphire AMD FirePro V4900 has 'only' 1 GB of RAM. Will this be enough for good performances? For example Mari has the specification "AMD graphics card with at least 1GB of RAM". So will this be enough in the future?
I trust you, so these are just some questions to be sure that I get the right system ^-^
Maybe some other users that are willing to verify the system as mentioned by BambiBoom?

Regards,

Lara
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Lara,

RAM > Yes, 2X8GB is preferable for the reason you mention- to be able to add RAM.

GPU > I tried a Firepro V4900 in my HP z420 system and was pleasantly surprised in 3D modeling uses. In Passmark Performance Test, the V4900 performs similarly to the Quadro 2000 and is only a bit more than half the price. However, when I tried the V4900 on my very large 3D models- 100MB and more, it was not encouraging and I bought a Quadro 4000 (2GB) of the "new other" description- never used but without a box and accessories ($320).

While I believe a V4900 is a good card for the price, there is again the problem that the card has to be as good as the most demanding application. In this case, I think it is Mari and for this the card I would recommend - irrespective of cost- is the Quadro K5000 or 6000. This is because the 3D texture painting is so very particle and polygon intensive and of course the files for animation are very large. A lot of CUDA cores also somewhat relieve the burden on the CPU so I usually steer towards NIVIDIA. Mari runs well on AMD cards as well, but these are also the upper end of the scale> W8000 and so on. This test of workstation cards on this site I think is very informative>

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493.html

Most of those building or buying a new system insist on all new components, but as mentioned, I have had excellent results with used Quadros. Amazingly, I have seen recent Ebay US sales of Quadro 6000's (6GB) for under $1,000. When Mari was used in the making of "Avatar", those systems must have used a pair of 6000's. Probably (and the listings mention this), there are quite few for sale because firms are changing 6000's for the recent K6000 (12GB) and $5,000.

I'm not advocating these very high end cards, but I've learned that my projects start out working easily and then reach a point where, for example, the 3D navigation makes them almost impossible to finish. It's a though running into a wall and many hours of work suddenly seems useless. I was working on a Sketchup model of only 50MB until 04:00 putting everything onto layers that I could turn off just to get something done on one part at a time. Again, given your applications, projects could conceivably become very large and complex

I've noticed though that the better the software, the more it responds to better hardware. For example, AutoCad 2D works on about any machine every made- I have a Pentium III 750MHz that runs V 2004 very well- and 3ds Max and Solidworks will have very noticeable improvements with better hardware, but Sketchup files over about 30MB requires turning off everything that isn't being modified, and navigating in monochrome with the shadows off.

CASE > I like conservative cases for workstations - Luan Li and Corsair, and like the Fractal R4 very much- it looks "quiet"and not distracting. If I were building a system, I would use a full tower case to have good airflow and to make assembly easier, but having eight internal 3.5" bays as does the Fractal is amazing for a case of those dimensions. My preference is also for cases without a door covering the optical drives, and the resulting reduction in the air vent size, but that also probably helps the system remain quieter.

May I ask what are some of your typical projects?

Sorry for such a long ramble!

Cheers,

BambiBoom





 
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xXLaraXx

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Hey BambiBoom, don't worry about the long ramble, I like to get as much information as I can :)

Professionally I work with MATLAB and Siemens NX. Possibly in the future, I also work with SolidWorks and other CAD, CAM and CAE software. Furthermore, Adobe CS. For my professional work however, I have a company computer, so this build is not as important for this software as it seems.

For hobby, I like to model and play around in 3DS max. Also, I am starting to learn zBrush, and want to take a look at Mari soon. Basically I just like to play around and learn new software to see what is possible nowadays.

Since I am just playing around, I do not know how big the scenes get (really differs from 'project' to 'project'), but I want a computer that is a little bit future proof (even though I know it is impossible to make a future proof PC). It is to replace my 6 year's old laptop :p

Thanks again for the help :)

Update: I think for the case I will be going for the Corsair Carbide 300R here
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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xXLaraXx,

Software > Software requires so much study, repeated use, and is so expensive, I also have a "test drive" of software and like to try various types. I notice too that some of my friends are quite rigid in their thinking, most often because they are so familiar with an application- and know how to do everything- they are reluctant to start again with something new. My problem with software is that I always gravitate to programs that have far more capabilities than I have time to use, plus I'll spend so much time doing 2D drafting and converting that to 3D models, I'll have forgotten how to refine the rendering!

The other common situation is that by the time I need a program, it is too late to learn how to use it efficiently, so I have to fall back to the old one. In a kind of converse situation to the one you mention, I was very interested to learn MATLAB. A few weeks ago a friend needed help doing some flight dynamics work (von Karman low pass filters of wind tunnel data), and I really wanted to jump in and do it, but again, by the time I need a program, it is too late,...

Future Proof > Yes, you're correct that nothing is future proof, but I believe that LGA2011 comes the closest, principally as one might begin with a 4-core and improve as needed to 6, 8, 10-core, and there are plans into the future for LGA2011 CPU's with 12 and 15 cores.

Case > Yes, I think the Corsair 300R, while not as stylish as the Fractal, has a couple of advantages- no door over the DVD drives and more obvious ways for cooling air to get in and out. Good choice.

Cheers,

BambiBoom





 
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xXLaraXx

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Hey bambiboom again :)

  • ■ GPU: I am ordering now, but I cannot seem to find the AMD FirePro V4900 at the website I am ordering. The card that comes closest is the ATI FirePro V4900 (or is this actually the same card? I have no idea).
    ■ RAM: For the Kingston DDR3 ECC 8GB memory modules, there is a list of many different modules. I don't know which one to choose.
    ■ MoBo: I cannot find if for the ASUS Z9PA-U8 I need a sound card, or that it is onboard. This may be a stupid question, but do I need to buy a separate sound card?
    Furthermore I only see a VGA connection, so no DVI or HDMI connection. How do I connect my monitor to the computer? Or do I need an extra component for that?
    Also, I see that there are only 4 USB ports on the MoBo. How do I connect two of these to the two USB slots in the front of the case? These cables included with the case I assume?

I am sorry that the website is in Dutch, I hope Google Translate can help you out. If not, I am willing to translate ofcourse :)

Sorry for bothering you with all the questions, and thanks again in advance.
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Lara,

You are very welcome .

1. GPU > Yes, sorry, the V4900 is indeed "ATI"- AMD is the old name for the company. The connections on the V4900 include 1X DVI and 2X DisplayPort- no VGA.

2. RAM > The best way to choose RAM is to consult the test / compatibility list of the motherboard maker, in this case, for the ASUS Z9PA-U8. In the US, this list is called the "Approved Vendors List" (Goedgekeurde Leveranciers Lijst?) and the one I found is >

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/Socket2011/Z9PA-U8/Manual&QVL/DIMM_AVL_List_Z9PA-U8_20131220.pdf

I don't find these lists to be logically arranged and of course, one must consult the sellers to know the comparative cost. One useful feature is the little notation such "CL 11" and etc. which is the latency and of course lower is better. ECC RAM because of the error correction typically has a higher latency than non-ECC.

3. MoBo > The Z9PA-U8 does not have onboard sound. There is a special slot for a "MIO-892" which is a proprietary sound card >

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=MIO-892&N=-1&isNodeId=1

> and that cost $20 in the US. This is done to isolate the sound card from the motherboard. I have not found the MIO-892 on the Tweakers NL site.

I apologize as I didn't realize this was the case. Why not have another PCIE x1 slot? The position of the "MIO" slot makes it appear that no other card would fit there. I did know about the Z9PA having a "PIKE" slot which is a proprietary HD slot for running RAID with SAS devices.

To me having two proprietary slots in this way is a kind of arrogance that I don't like.

This is not extremely important, but on principle, I have looked for alternatives. For me the best motherboard for this purpose is the ASUS P9X79 WS, but it is €80 more expensive - € 305 ($370 / €267 in the US).

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/295910/asus-p9x79-ws/specificaties

It appears that the ASUS Z9PA-U8 is the least expensive. Of course, it is possible to use a conventional sound card on the open PCIe slots, for example, the ASUS Xonar DG for €22>

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/295910/asus-p9x79-ws/specificaties/

I appreciate the need for good computer sound, both for projects and to have music while working. In my CAD/ imaging systems I use quite old fashioned PCI cards by M-Audio called the "Audiophile 2496" and the "192", having MIDI I/O. With the CAD system, I use a Logitech z2300 amplifier / speaker system.

If you would like me to look into alternative to the ASUS Z9PA-U8, let me know.

4. USB> The ASUS board does have 4X USB ports > 2 x USB 3.0 + 2 x USB 2.0. Often, the cables for the MoBo to the external ports will be included with the case, but so far I do not see them mentioned in the listing for the Carbide 300R. The MoBo does include a couple of SATA cables, but you will need to choose some of the internal cabling. The cables will vary in length with different mobo and case combinations.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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xXLaraXx

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Thanks again BambiBoom!

Sound: So after looking up some reviews, I decided to go for the ASUS Xonar DGX (in price only differed a few Euro's from the DG version. The DGX version used the PCIe port instead of the PCI port for the DG version).

RAID: So basically to have a RAID setup, I need to buy the ASUS PIKE RAID card right? If so, then I will stick to having no RAID setup (PIKE expensive), and get one 2TB WD Red instead of two 1TB WD Blue.

Thank you so much for the help, and here (hopefully for the last time) my list of components for the pc. Note that I already have the keyboard and mouse. Is there anything else I need? I assume that the onboard ethernet card will suffice?

Suggested System with help of BambiBoom:
Total cost: ~€ 1600

So the total cost is higher as I wanted at first, but I also included the monitor, sound card, case, and a more expensive MoBo and RAM.


Thanks so far for all the help so far BambiBoom, wish I could give you some 'likes' or something ;)
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Lara,

In my view this should have a very good performance for the cost and a good future upgrade path > better GPU, 6 or 8 core CPU, more RAM, drives, and etc.

1. Sound > Yes, the Xonar DGX should be very good. If you don't have speaker for this system by the way, I recommend the Logitech systems ( I use a Z2300) that have a pair of satellite speakers, a subwoofer, and in particular a little wired remote to switch on / off, control volume- quickly mute when the phone rings- and a headphone jack. See>

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=logitech+speaker+system

2. RAID> The specification for the SATA on the ASUS Z9P-U8 is >

SATA RAID
Intel Rapid Storage Technology Enterprise(RSTe) (For Windows Only)
(Support Software RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 )
LSI MegaRAID (For Linux/Windows)
(Support Software RAID 0, 1, 10 )

> and I believe that you should be able to configure RAID in the motherboard setup as the RAID is part of the C602 chipset. I'm not absolutely sure of this, and suggest you download the user's manual from ASUS and review- a worthwhile idea anyway to understand any other parts you might need.. My HP z420 uses the C602 and it has a variety of RAID configurations available. If you had a very complex RAID 60 with 8 drives then I would recommend a RAID controller card.

You are very welcome to any suggestions- sorry I was not completely thorough in my replies. If you have other questions or comments, while working on it, you are also welcome to send a private message through this site.


Cheers,

BambiBoom

 
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