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Old system upgrade - starting with a GPU

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  • Gtx
  • GPUs
  • Graphics
  • Radeon
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 11, 2014 3:47:53 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks in advance for any help and advice. So, using the template:

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: in two weeks
BUDGET RANGE: 240$ or £140

USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT:
Rendering with Lumion and 3D softwares
Gaming - I want to play better the new Thief game, Crysis 3

CURRENT GPU AND POWER SUPPLY:
Saphire HD4850 512MB
Corsair 550W

OTHER RELEVANT SYSTEM SPECS:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
Asus P5Q
4GB Corsair
No cooling system

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: England

PARTS PREFERENCES: No preference, although I have been working with AMD, but I believe that all of those GPU render engines uses CUDA technology.

OVERCLOCKING: Maybe SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Yes, but in the future

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1680x1050

Well, my PC is starting to struggle with the type of work I have and the games I want to play. I don't have money now to buy a new system, so my idea is slowly buying new hardware and maybe in a year get a brand new PC.

For now, I would like to start with a new graphic card because my work is "demanding" for a new one and because I have to play with very low graphics. Thinking of the future, I believe I can benefit from doing SLI or Crossfire.

goodguy713 suggest me (in other topic not related with this) the new GTX 750Ti, but I got confused because the GTX 660 has a better passmark result. And then I saw the Radeon R9 270 that looks quite good. Any help is appreciated.

Many thanks


More about : system upgrade starting gpu

March 11, 2014 4:05:04 AM

Depending on the rendering software you are using you may go with Radeon or nVidia. If the software you are using uses Cuda acceleration then you should obviously get a GTX card, if it is OpenCl accelerated (like Sony Vegas for example) a Radeon card of the same class would be faster. The GTX 660 is faster than the GTX 750Ti, the only reason the GTX 750Ti has been suggested is probably because of its performance per watt and the fact that it doesn't need any power connectors which makes it a good choice for people with small PSUs, but I don't think you will have to worry about that. What is the model of your PSU?
Thief is a game that doesn't scale well on AMD processors, Intel processors outperforms AMD processors in this game. But for Crysis 3 AMD chips do very well competing with their Intel processors counterparts.
The best budget rendering CPU I could think of is the AMD FX-8320, rendering is heavily multi-threaded and can make use of all 8 cores. Also You should upgrade your RAM to 8 or 16 GB kits; rendering speed is quite dependent on RAM bandwidth, so you should get a 2x4 or even 4x4 1866 MHz RAM kit if you can afford it.
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March 11, 2014 5:15:43 AM

Thanks AnEwG for you reply.

Checked some of the applications I may need to use and so far Cuda doesn't seems something essential. But 3ds Max uses OpenGL and in this case I may get a Radeon card.

The problem with the GTX 750Ti is that it doesn't support SLI.
I think that the XFX Radeon R9 270X Boost may be a good start because as I mentioned I cannot spend more money now. My idea is buying later a new Motherboard, CPU and RAM.

What do you think about this XFX Radeon R9 270X Boost? Does my motherboard (asus p5q) support this graphic card? The Asus P5Q only supports PCIE2.0 and for this graphic card they mention PCIE 3.0.
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March 11, 2014 8:52:38 AM

Ok, so there is no problem with the PCIE 3.0.

Just want to be sure that I am getting the best graphic card possible :D 
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March 11, 2014 9:21:50 AM

OpenGL and OpenCl are not the same thing. GTX 760 is better for gaming but you will be bottle-necked anyway by your current system, not because of the PCIe 2.0 lanes but because of the old dual core processor/Ram. What applications do you use exactly?
The GTX 760 may actually also be a little bit better for 3ds Max but the R9 270x is much stronger in any Opencl accelerated application. I wouldn't recommend XFX cards, Gigabyte or Asus are better manufacturers and their cooling solutions are better.
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March 11, 2014 10:47:56 AM

I use Lumion that is a real-time "engine", UDK, 3ds max and Vray.

I know that for now it will be a little bit bottlenecked, but at the moment that is all I can do.
Is MSI or Sapphire any good?

I am trying to find a Gigabyte or a Asus that supports SLI
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March 11, 2014 11:03:19 AM

I think you will be limited by your current CPU running these programs. R9 270x supports crossfire regardless of manufacturer. But you will need a 990 chipset motherboard to CF which can be quite expensive. At this price point you may as well get an i5 with a locked multi and a cheaper motherboard and get a more expensive card with the price you will be paying for your dual gpu setup.
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March 11, 2014 11:06:34 AM

Sorry do mislead you. I don't want to do crossfire now, it is just something that I want to do later with the new CPU and Motherboard.

So is the MSI and Sapphire also good options?
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Best solution

March 11, 2014 2:15:16 PM

Some MSI cards like the HAWK edition come with a good cooling solution, a lot of people praise Sapphire cards as well although I have seen a few people around here complaining about problems with their Sapphire cards, sometimes right out of the box. I have 2 Sapphire cards and one of them has driver and stuttering/lagging issues during games even when all settings are on low.
The 8320 is slightly better than an IB i5 with a locked multi when it comes to 3d modeling/rendering but it has an unlocked multiplier so you can overclock it a few MHz on the stock cooler or even get an after market cooler in the future and overclock it even higher. It is a great value chip for your uses. For gaimng at your resolution you can get the R9 270 or the GTX 660 or even the R9 270x or the GTX 760.
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March 12, 2014 5:34:34 AM

Thanks AnEwG. I bought a MSI Radeon R9 270X HAWK Video Graphic Card.

Many thanks for your help.
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March 12, 2014 10:17:04 AM

AnEwG said:
I think you will be limited by your current CPU running these programs. R9 270x supports crossfire regardless of manufacturer. But you will need a 990 chipset motherboard to CF which can be quite expensive. At this price point you may as well get an i5 with a locked multi and a cheaper motherboard and get a more expensive card with the price you will be paying for your dual gpu setup.


+1^ upgrading the video card without also upgrading the CPU and possibly the full platform won't give you a huge boost in new games. Although first buying a good card then upgrading the CPU/motherboard/RAM would work OK considering the 4850 is pretty slow, even when considering the older CPU.
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March 12, 2014 10:31:17 AM

hang-the-9 said:
AnEwG said:
I think you will be limited by your current CPU running these programs. R9 270x supports crossfire regardless of manufacturer. But you will need a 990 chipset motherboard to CF which can be quite expensive. At this price point you may as well get an i5 with a locked multi and a cheaper motherboard and get a more expensive card with the price you will be paying for your dual gpu setup.


+1^ upgrading the video card without also upgrading the CPU and possibly the full platform won't give you a huge boost in new games. Although first buying a good card then upgrading the CPU/motherboard/RAM would work OK considering the 4850 is pretty slow, even when considering the older CPU.


I know :\

But for now it is all I can do. I am glad you mentioned that this may be the best route to upgrade my system. Can my next move be, buying a good motherboard and a good CPU and leave the RAM for a later occasion?

Thanks
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March 12, 2014 10:38:25 AM

Your current motherboard supports DDR2 memory which means you don't have DDR3 at the moment. You should save up and get the motherboard, the CPU and the RAM in one go.
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March 12, 2014 11:00:58 AM

For a budget upgrade you can always just upgrade to a Q9650 CPU, it won't get you in the same range as a full new system but you will get another year or so out out of the system along withe the ability to match the video card a bit better. Just look around a bit for a good deal on the Q9650, they prices can really vary. Comparison between your CPU and the 9650 quad core: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core2-Quad-Q9650-vs-Intel...

Since you have a decent motherboard and power supply, you can overclock the CPU a bit as well for an added boost, maybe with the added cost of a better than stock cooler. http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/my-new-q9650-...
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March 13, 2014 12:43:33 PM

I know AnEwG. But I am not going to spend £170 to buy only 8GB of RAM. And is a shame that my MB doesn't support DDR3.

Thanks hang-the-9 for your help. I saw the Q9650 for £130, but I am going to wait a few more months and buy a new MB and CPU. My idea was getting a motherboard that supports two CPU, but they are quite expensive.

I received my Radeon R9 today and.... I need a new case. I have a small case, 3R System R520Li, and the psu is blocking the space I need (5mm).
Anyway, I saw the Zalman z11 plus and it seems quite good. But I am not sure...

Any suggestions for a motherboard that supports 2 cpu?
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March 13, 2014 12:55:45 PM

The only motherboards I know of that support multiple CPU configuration are server units which can be quite expensive and unnecessary for you as well. If you really have the money you should have gotten a FirePro or Quadro cards, which are specialized cards for professional use (but because of that particular reason they may or may not run games well). That and a lot of RAM and an i7-4770k but like I said that will cost you A LOT of money. The FX-8320 IMO is a better choice for a budget workstation.
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March 13, 2014 4:01:24 PM

I saw one Motherboard from Asus, but was something like £400. To be honest with you, I worked with a FirePro and didn't notice big advantages with my kind of work. I had loads of crashes even with optimized drivers and the things that supposedly use this technology aren't fully integrated. As I said, my next move will be buying a good motherboard and a CPU with at least 6 or more cores. V-ray loves loads of cores. And I will start with at least 8GB (2x4GB).


What do you think about this Zalman Z11 plus? Seems to have a good air flow.
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March 13, 2014 4:57:00 PM

It looks like a nice case but make sure it is compatible with the form factor of the motherboard you are going to get if you decide to go for the i7.
You budget choice should be the FX-8320/ FX-8350. Both have 8 integer cores and the later is only second to Intel i7s in one of the POV rendering tests and only third to a 1000$ i7 and the Haswell i7 in the second test.
http://techreport.com/review/24879/intel-core-i7-4770k-...
If you can afford it though then the i7-4770 for about 310$ or the i7-4770k (if you are planning to overclock) are your best bet. The i7-4770k is only topped in these charts by the i7-3960x which is like I mentioned over 1000$.
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March 14, 2014 3:40:19 AM

Someone here in the forum recommended the:

ASUS MAXIMUS VI FORMULA LGA 1150 Intel Z87 or
ASUS MAXIMUS VI EXTREME LGA 1150 Intel Z87

For the i7 CPUs you mentioned.
But after checking this http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-4770-vs-AMD-FX-83..., it seems to me that the FX-8350 seems a better choice and price. I don't know if the inbuilt GPU will make a big difference.

The case says it supports ATX and Micro-ATX, so I believe I am safe :) 

For the FX-8350 I saw the:

ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+

Are they a good option?

Thanks so much for your help
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March 14, 2014 5:51:24 AM

The GA-990FXA-UD3 is a great board, the Crosshair board is even better, but personally I wouldn't spend an extra 100$ on the motherboard, so I would say the Gigabyte board is more than enough. If you are not going to overclock and/or crossfire you can get a 970 chipset board at an even lower price.
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March 17, 2014 2:10:45 PM

Well, I got my case today. Really good. Loads of fans and enough space for my graphic card. I don't want to do overclok, but I want to do crossfire. For crossfire the GA-990FXA-UD3 is good enough?

Do you have any suggestion for RAM? Thanks :D 

I love my Radeon R9 270X. I will see if I can Battlefield 4 for free with this card.
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March 17, 2014 2:18:52 PM

Congratulations on your new case. Yes, motherboards with the 990 chipset have good CF support and this board is a nice one. As for the RAM there are many good brands out there, G.Skill and Crucial just to name a few. If you aren't going to buy an aftermarket cooler then it wouldn't matter whether the RAM has a low profile or not. You should get a 1866 MHz with Cl 9 kit.
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March 18, 2014 3:46:50 AM

Ok thanks.


Just a question regarding the motherboard. I went to Gigabyte's website and they say they have the GA-990FXA-UD3 rev1.0 and the lastest one is the GA-990FXA-UD3 rev 4.0. However, I only found the GA-990FXA-UD3 rev 3.0 and I cannot actually see any difference between them.

Thanks for the suggestions.
I saw a Corsair Memory Vengeance Red 8GB DDR3 1600 MHz CAS 9 XMP Dual Channel Desktop Sandybridge for a good price.
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March 18, 2014 4:52:23 AM

The 1866 MHz RAM shouldn't be that much more expensive, maybe a few dollars or so, FX chips benefit from higher bandwidth, especially in memory intensive tasks, so you should definitely go for a 1866 MHz kit if you can find it for a good price. The difference between different PCB revisions is usually better compatibility with bios updates out of the box, fixed issues and so on. Rev 3.0 should be OK, probably the only difference between rev 3.0 and rev 4.0 is the bios version. Also, one final thing, there should be a list of tested memory module models on the motherboard page, you should check that out.
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March 19, 2014 8:05:21 AM

Thanks for the explanation AnEwG. I like to know why things work instead of just, buy this and this and you will be fine. I am reading this article here

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6372/memory-performance-1...

To try understand the difference between the Memory speed (like 1866 and 1600).
If I get the Gigabyte Motherboard and the AMD CPU do I need to change the PSU?
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March 19, 2014 1:28:54 PM

What brand of Corsair is it?
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March 20, 2014 3:19:42 AM

It is a Corsair VX550W PSU
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March 20, 2014 6:14:49 AM

CX is not a good series, some people say Corsair cheaps on the components of the CX series and the capacitors on this line are pretty bad. Since you are also planning to CF in the future and since your FX-8320 consumes a good amount of power you will need to upgrade the wattage as well. I think anything from XFX or EVGA for example certified bronze at around 700w will be a good PSU upgrade.
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April 6, 2014 3:39:30 AM

Thanks AnEwG. I asked that because on some websites with my specifications some say I need 450 watts and others said I need 950 watts.
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June 1, 2014 12:25:41 PM

Well, here I am digging out this post, but the time has come to buy these new pieces.

I am thinking buying the

AMD FX-8350 4.0GHz 8-Core Processor
Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 ATX AM3+ Motherboard

However, I am not too sure what memory should I get. AnEwG mentioned getting a 1866 Mhz with CL9. And I was thinking on get 8 GB module initially and later get a second module. Is this wise?

Many thanks
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