What is "Double Point Precision Computing" (FP64) on the GeForce Titan Black?
Tags:
- Photoshop
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Graphics
- Double Point Precision
- Maya
- Autodesk
- Titan Black
- Titan
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Geforce
- Nvidia
- Compute
- Adobe
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Blarg King
March 11, 2014 7:04:13 AM
So a bit of background for this question, I'm looking to build myself a pretty powerful computer for the tasks of high-end gaming (I'm a bit of a graphics junkie
) but I also will be doing a lot of moderately to highly demanding stuff in Autodesk Maya and while I'll be using a CPU renderer, I'll want to make sure the viewport can handle some high poly models. I'll also be doing a lot of Photoshop, Adobe Premier, and Adobe After Effects work, but I'm not overly concerned about those as I've had good results even on a laptop GPU.
I know technically a workstation graphics card is what I need for the professional software, but I have a budget of about 3000$ for the whole build, and workstation cards aren't very good at gaming.
So I was considering the GeForce 780 Ti for my build, and then I read up about the new GeForce Titan Black edition, and how it has the same gaming performance as the 780, but adds something called "Double Point Precision Computing". This brings me to my question, which is what the heck is it? I've read all the technical descriptions and I get the jist of it does mathematically, but I've yet to find what its actually used for. Would it be of benefit to the professional applications I've listed? Or would I be better off just using the cheaper 780 Ti?
Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
) but I also will be doing a lot of moderately to highly demanding stuff in Autodesk Maya and while I'll be using a CPU renderer, I'll want to make sure the viewport can handle some high poly models. I'll also be doing a lot of Photoshop, Adobe Premier, and Adobe After Effects work, but I'm not overly concerned about those as I've had good results even on a laptop GPU. I know technically a workstation graphics card is what I need for the professional software, but I have a budget of about 3000$ for the whole build, and workstation cards aren't very good at gaming.
So I was considering the GeForce 780 Ti for my build, and then I read up about the new GeForce Titan Black edition, and how it has the same gaming performance as the 780, but adds something called "Double Point Precision Computing". This brings me to my question, which is what the heck is it? I've read all the technical descriptions and I get the jist of it does mathematically, but I've yet to find what its actually used for. Would it be of benefit to the professional applications I've listed? Or would I be better off just using the cheaper 780 Ti?
Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
More about : double point precision computing fp64 geforce titan black
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Reply to Blarg King
KR8NUX
March 11, 2014 11:07:52 AM
There is no addition, almost all modern GPUs figure double point precision computing. The scalability just varies in each.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/307548-33-double-prec...
Read the above link, and dont confuse the "modelling and simulation" comment to be applicable to Photoshop, Maya, 3Ds Max, they do not involve simulations and accuracy in calculation, the are mainly sandbox modelers. To sum up, buy the 780, cuz u dont run scientific or engineering simulations.
To add, CAD and Modellers do use the GPGPU, but opt for the titan only if you are a professional working for a studio.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/307548-33-double-prec...
Read the above link, and dont confuse the "modelling and simulation" comment to be applicable to Photoshop, Maya, 3Ds Max, they do not involve simulations and accuracy in calculation, the are mainly sandbox modelers. To sum up, buy the 780, cuz u dont run scientific or engineering simulations.
To add, CAD and Modellers do use the GPGPU, but opt for the titan only if you are a professional working for a studio.
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Reply to KR8NUX
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Best solution
KR8NUX seems to have it right. Given your goals and budget, I'd also suggest pairing a Quadro with your GeForce. That will give you 10-bit display capability for all of the graphical interfacing you do while also keeping the GeForce for its power. Linus Tech tips did an episode called "The Ultimate Video Editing Build" that did this, and he'll walk through everything. It's about an hour-long video - very thorough.
http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/74336-november-9th-...
I think there's going to be some tricky driver configuring to do, but it is possible. You'll have to set things up so that your monitor runs form the Quadro, and the GeForce is the brawn behind the brain. :-)
http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/74336-november-9th-...
I think there's going to be some tricky driver configuring to do, but it is possible. You'll have to set things up so that your monitor runs form the Quadro, and the GeForce is the brawn behind the brain. :-)
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 11, 2014 12:02:24 PM
Interesting. Now in Maya there is simulation functionality, mainly gravity simulations on materials like cloth and simulating objects interacting with each other (like a ball bouncing off of various angled surfaces, or two objects smashing into each other) would that need the precision computing function, or is it a single point calculation?
Also interested in the idea of running a quadro along side a geforce, but if its tricky I might not go for it, I want a system thats fairly stable and if theres a lot of trickery involved it could bite me in the rear later on if something goes wrong.
Also interested in the idea of running a quadro along side a geforce, but if its tricky I might not go for it, I want a system thats fairly stable and if theres a lot of trickery involved it could bite me in the rear later on if something goes wrong.
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Reply to Blarg King
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Stability was a main goal of the system he built. Can't go through everything here, but the first section of that video explains the rationale in detail behind each part, as well as the combination of parts.
I'd say to set aside an hour to watch the video. It's broken up by chapters with links, so you can skip by section also.
As for the card pairing, I'd recommend just giving it a shot. I've researched it, and there's not much in the way of how to set it up. If you just get the cards, you can always return them if they don't do what you want. Not that much of a gamble, especially if you look into it first. Linus is a very credible source, and he doesn't post things haphazardly.
I'd say to set aside an hour to watch the video. It's broken up by chapters with links, so you can skip by section also.
As for the card pairing, I'd recommend just giving it a shot. I've researched it, and there's not much in the way of how to set it up. If you just get the cards, you can always return them if they don't do what you want. Not that much of a gamble, especially if you look into it first. Linus is a very credible source, and he doesn't post things haphazardly.
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 12, 2014 6:29:24 AM
Well if its stable then I don't see why not. Only thing is It will add a bit to the cost, but I think I can manage it. I was looking at workstation cards and the Quadro K2000 seems pretty powerful and at roughly 500$ I could probably manage to afford that. I'll have to set some time to watch the video though before I commit to this though.
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Reply to Blarg King
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Yeah, maybe you can even pair the cards in your current build just to test things. It's exciting to see an actual user considering this. If you do it, I hope you'll document the process for others. It's a fairly exotic solution without much documentation online. I bet I'm not the only one who would like to learn more about the details of getting it up and running. If you go forward and you'd like any help writing things up, message me. I'm happy to contribute.
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 12, 2014 8:39:54 AM
My current computers are both laptops to building this computer will also be the testing grounds for this. But I will be sure to document everything and do a proper tutorial. It may still be a few months off though, Im waiting for an insurance claim to be filed to get the money I need so theres not a specific time for this project.
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Reply to Blarg King
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Blarg King
March 12, 2014 11:02:28 AM
Hmm. I watched the video, but it didn't answer the question I have, which is if I have a Quadro and a GeForce in on machine, can I plug in a single monitor to the Quadro, and use the Quadro for the pro apps, but then if I want to play games could I have the GeForce card do the work for that but output through the Quadro's connection so I don't have to mess around with connecting the monitor to each card as needed.
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Reply to Blarg King
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Yeah, I had the same question and even posted it in the forum somewhere. Was it on the same page as the video, down in the comments? Pairing a Quadro and GeForce would definately be a unique solution, so that's part of why I've had such a hard time finding information. From poking around on fora, I've found the comments generally break down in two ways. The first is that people will say without much explanation something along the lines of "No, it won't work. GeForce and Quadro card use different drivers, so you'd have to manually switch the cable to switch cards." And others say without much explanation something along the lines of "I've got it working without trouble on my setup. Just installed and it worked."
Either way, I haven't found much explanation supporting one position or the other. It would be nice of there were a video showing off a rig where someone switches from a GeForce/CUDA-excellerated Photoshop using a 10-bit display plugged into the Quadro, close it, and then run a game on the GeForce - just work. You know? UnfortunTely, I haven't found anything like that. You might be (one of) the first if you pull it off.
Either way, I haven't found much explanation supporting one position or the other. It would be nice of there were a video showing off a rig where someone switches from a GeForce/CUDA-excellerated Photoshop using a 10-bit display plugged into the Quadro, close it, and then run a game on the GeForce - just work. You know? UnfortunTely, I haven't found anything like that. You might be (one of) the first if you pull it off.
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 12, 2014 4:49:46 PM
From everything I've read, the most you can do is have both cards in at once and plug the monitor into the card you need. That and the extra cost for the very slight improvement in reliability over a GeForce card make it a straightforward choice, and thats to just get a GeForce card and just trick my software into using it for GPU acceleration.
Now the choice, should I get a 780 Ti, which has a faster GPU clock, and is cheaper, or the Titan Black, which has a slower GPU clock, but has 6GB of vram over the 780's 3GB, which may come in handy for loading hi-res textures in Maya.
Now the choice, should I get a 780 Ti, which has a faster GPU clock, and is cheaper, or the Titan Black, which has a slower GPU clock, but has 6GB of vram over the 780's 3GB, which may come in handy for loading hi-res textures in Maya.
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Reply to Blarg King
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The limitation on GeForce really comes down to color depth. Unless you have a 10-bit display panel, Quadro has limited utility. If you do, however, it's totally worth it. Those displays costs thousands of dollars because of their color depth. As for the 780 ti, mine just came in the mail today. It's really fast, but it is what it is. There's no magic. The processor in that card and the Titan Black are pretty much identical, and you won't really see much of a difference to warrant the cost. The VRAM might help, and I don't really know Maya that well, but my guess is that the difference won't be huge.
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Reply to Eggz
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KR8NUX
March 13, 2014 2:31:41 AM
Reading through all this, since my last post, could you please comment on the workflow you are looking for Blarg ? If you could exactly pinpoint what your profile of work in maya would be, we could be able to pinpoint a better solution. As Eggz said, you need a 10-bit display panel, used by CG professionals simply because the colour reproduction and depth are unparalleled. But again, do you actually need that much colour accuracy ?
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Blarg King
March 13, 2014 8:27:39 AM
Well I'm not actually doing professional work yet. I'm currently in school learning 3D animation and design in Maya, and I've still got 8 months left before I graduate. I wanted to build a professional-ish level computer so that I would have the ability to do freelance work right out of school. But I'm also very much into gaming and I want something better than my laptop to play games on.
I have a budget of up to 4000$ ish. Perhaps I could scale back my design for a gaming computer and make a 2000$ gaming rig and a 2000$ professional rig?
Or maybe I could just build the design I have right now and just buy myself a nice workstation like the new Mac Pro (I do like Mac's better for 3D and video work) when I graduate from college. Im sure a Titan Black or even just a 780 Ti can handle the demands of learning 3D.
I think I'll browse some parts and see what I can come up with for 2 2000$ machines.
I have a budget of up to 4000$ ish. Perhaps I could scale back my design for a gaming computer and make a 2000$ gaming rig and a 2000$ professional rig?
Or maybe I could just build the design I have right now and just buy myself a nice workstation like the new Mac Pro (I do like Mac's better for 3D and video work) when I graduate from college. Im sure a Titan Black or even just a 780 Ti can handle the demands of learning 3D.
I think I'll browse some parts and see what I can come up with for 2 2000$ machines.
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Reply to Blarg King
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There is absolutely no point to having two desktops unless they are in different physical addresses. A professional computing workstation would be on the X79 chipset, and it will accept as more than you'll need for gaming. So, simply putting in a video card would enable gaming on it. The 780 ti is more powerful than the most powerful "professional" cards; they are scaled-back versions of the same processor in order to improve stability. If you are freelancing, you'll get WAY more bang for your buck to build a single machine with very high end components that can handle gaming and professional usage.
My own computer is set up that way. It's a 3930k, 780 ti, 32 GB ram, Samsung EVO 750 GB, 2 TB Barracuda for storage, and it also has a TV tuner so I can access my FIOS through it. All of my digital stuff is consolidated into a single machine, but I still have a laptop for when I need or want to use it. The tower is small and wears many hats. It will run anything in the Adobe suite as well as you could ask. It tears up any game you'll throw at it. It acts as a DVR for my shows. It functions as a media server. And it's compact enough to fit behind a small arm chair so it's totally out of the way and unseen.
There is no way I could have built two machines and had either of them be nearly as capable as this singe machine is. If you like Mac, like I do too, you can dual boot it on two SSDs. Install Maveriks on one drive and Windows 8 on another. When you start it up, you'll be prompted to boot as a Mac or as a PC. As long as you plan to have your games and work in the same place, one powerful machine is definitely the way to go.
Also, if you were willing to have two machines, that is more hassle than switching monitor inputs. You could still pair a Quadro with a GeForce. Just have an input switch to toggle between the two cards electronically rather than physically replugging the cable. That's assuming you can't get the cards to harmonize their functionality, which I have a feeling you can do anyway. There are solutions for all of this stuff. You just have to dig a little bit.
My own computer is set up that way. It's a 3930k, 780 ti, 32 GB ram, Samsung EVO 750 GB, 2 TB Barracuda for storage, and it also has a TV tuner so I can access my FIOS through it. All of my digital stuff is consolidated into a single machine, but I still have a laptop for when I need or want to use it. The tower is small and wears many hats. It will run anything in the Adobe suite as well as you could ask. It tears up any game you'll throw at it. It acts as a DVR for my shows. It functions as a media server. And it's compact enough to fit behind a small arm chair so it's totally out of the way and unseen.
There is no way I could have built two machines and had either of them be nearly as capable as this singe machine is. If you like Mac, like I do too, you can dual boot it on two SSDs. Install Maveriks on one drive and Windows 8 on another. When you start it up, you'll be prompted to boot as a Mac or as a PC. As long as you plan to have your games and work in the same place, one powerful machine is definitely the way to go.
Also, if you were willing to have two machines, that is more hassle than switching monitor inputs. You could still pair a Quadro with a GeForce. Just have an input switch to toggle between the two cards electronically rather than physically replugging the cable. That's assuming you can't get the cards to harmonize their functionality, which I have a feeling you can do anyway. There are solutions for all of this stuff. You just have to dig a little bit.
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 13, 2014 10:02:45 AM
Right. I think I've got it nailed down.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v1w63z40047bp81/PC%20design.t...
Thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v1w63z40047bp81/PC%20design.t...
Thoughts?
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KR8NUX
March 13, 2014 10:35:56 AM
Blarg King
March 13, 2014 10:46:56 AM
KR8NUX
March 13, 2014 10:50:39 AM
Blarg King said:
I'm getting a decent amount of money from some insurance claims so I can afford it easily. If I'm going to build myself a computer to do high end tasks I might as well build a good one that won't be obsolete in a year or two. Yeah, but seeing that you are adding both a quadro and a 780ti, it seems that the titan black is gonna be cheaper for you, and give you comparable performance(Seeing the VRAM and the optimisations it has). So, we end up back in square one
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Reply to KR8NUX
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Blarg King
March 13, 2014 11:21:43 AM
Blarg King said:
Right. I think I've got it nailed down.https://www.dropbox.com/s/v1w63z40047bp81/PC%20design.t...
Thoughts?
I think this will do you well for years. Going with the 780 instead of the 780 ti and moving that money over to the Quadro will also server you well. That monitor is pretty good, but your next big upgrade should be to something professional-grade that has a high resolution with 10-bit color. Having the Quadro in place will have you ready. But, if that might be years off in the future. You might just want to get the 780 ti only. If a high-end monitor is years off, you might end up wanting a new computer by then anyway. A lot will turn on the monitor. For visual professionals, it's at least as important as the computer driving it.
Take a look at this: http://www.sharp-world.com/products/professional-monito...
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 13, 2014 1:32:30 PM
Blarg King
March 15, 2014 9:48:19 AM
Thinking of trimming the GeForce 780 down to a GeForce 770, and changing the ASUS board to an MSI (still with the Z79). It would save me around 300$. Do you think its a worthwhile trade off?
This is the motherboard: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...
This is the graphics: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...
This is the motherboard: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...
This is the graphics: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...
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Reply to Blarg King
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You'll be able to get a better prince on the 770 from this list: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...
Also, you can pay closer to $200 for an X79 motherboard. You'll get 100% of the performance out of a less expensive board so long as it's from a reputable company. You're not going to do competitive over clocking: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...
Also, you can pay closer to $200 for an X79 motherboard. You'll get 100% of the performance out of a less expensive board so long as it's from a reputable company. You're not going to do competitive over clocking: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...
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Reply to Eggz
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Blarg King
March 15, 2014 10:30:19 AM
I've thoroughly looked through everything. The ones I linked I chose specifically, the 770 because its the 4GB version and it has a slightly faster GPU clock. And the MSI board because it has more DDR3 slots than the cheaper ones, and generally better reviews.
Also you linked me the .com but Im in Canada so the prices and stock are slightly different.
Also you linked me the .com but Im in Canada so the prices and stock are slightly different.
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Reply to Blarg King
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Blarg King
March 15, 2014 3:42:09 PM
I'm starting to question the necessity of the Quadro card and the expensive monitor. None of my instructors at college (who have been doing professional projects for years) have ever bothered with workstation cards or 10-Bit monitors. I'm really thinking those are mostly utilized by very high end freelance designers and big studios.
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Blarg King said:
Right. I think I've got it nailed down.https://www.dropbox.com/s/v1w63z40047bp81/PC%20design.t...
Thoughts?
Good monitor but bad response time
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Reply to i7Baby
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Blarg King
March 18, 2014 3:14:07 PM
Ah yes. I changed that one out for this one: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...
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KR8NUX
March 20, 2014 5:09:19 AM
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