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Can't decide between these monitors

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  • Asus
  • Samsung
  • Monitors
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March 24, 2014 3:40:48 PM

So i'm looking to replace my Samsung S24A300B 24" monitor. I'm very pleased with the quality but i need a monitor with VESA mount and i want the same (or better) quality.

I don't want to buy shitty brands so i narrowed down to either a Samsung or an Asus, but it looks like Asus has a better warranty.

Monitor must be 24" + HDMI + 1080p + VESA

Right now i can't decide between these 3 monitors:

#1 - $300 - ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

#2 - $260 - ASUS VS24AH-P Black 24" 5ms http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

#3 - $210 - Asus VE248H Black 24" 2ms http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

the #3 is obviously the cheapest, but the #1 has a much better contrast ratio and response time. It is also awarded by Tom's Hardware for the best monitor (see on newegg). So it is worth paying $100 more just to get this one or should i go with the #3 or #2 ?

I use my computer a lot of hours every day, especially for work but also for some gaming (around 80% work, 20% gaming). I want best quality but i don't want to spend $100 more if i won't see any difference.

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March 24, 2014 3:50:34 PM

Contrast ratios are a lie. So ignore them; panel type: that's what matters. (Also response times are lies too.) So, ignore both of those specs; look for the panel type and other features instead.

ASUS VG248QE - cheaper TN panel (lower picture quality), but if you plan on adding the G-sync chip to it, then you have to get this one.
ASUS VS24AH-P - better IPS panel (better picture quality)
Asus VE248H - cheaper TN panel - no redeeming features that make it worth buying; don't purchase this one

BTW, any interest in 16:10 ratio monitors (1920x1200)? :) 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=P...

Also, do you want matte or glossy screen? Different monitors have a matte or glossy screen.
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March 24, 2014 4:08:14 PM

Thanks for the reply, so i guess i should go with the VS24AH-P since i don't have any plan to add a G-sync chip (don't want to risk voiding Asus 3 years warranty)

Quote:
(Also response times are lies too.)

Are you sure ? I thought faster response time means less ghosting on the screen when objects are moving ?

Quote:
Also, do you want matte or glossy screen? Different monitors have a matte or glossy screen.

I have strong lighting in my room, so i suppose that i should go with a matte panel.


Do you know which type of panel i have on my Samsung S24A300B ? In my opinion it seems to be good quality (i paid a lot for this monitor when it first came out) but i'm really not an expert with monitors panels...

How does the S24AH-P compares to S24A300B ?
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March 24, 2014 4:33:40 PM

ungovernable said:
Quote:
(Also response times are lies too.)

Are you sure ? I thought faster response time means less ghosting on the screen when objects are moving

Yes, both your statement and my statement are correct. :) 
Response times do matter ... very much so. If the response times on a panel are not low enough the image will have this weird smearing effect during motion. Most monitors nowadays have low enough response times that you often (or maybe never) will see this smearing issue anymore. However, it is true that there are still some out there that are not good.

So, if it is so important, why does it not matter? Because the monitor companies flat out lie about the real response times... so badly that you have no way of knowing if they are telling the truth. You know those "so called" 1m monitors? They may not really be 1ms. Consider these two extreme cases (they may not always be the norm).
Consider this BenQ, which claims 1ms, but really has response times ranging from 1.5ms to 7 ms:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2720z.htm
Consider this Zalman, which claims a 5ms response time, but really is mostly 20ms most of the time:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/zalma...

How do they achieve this lie? Well, in those two links, did you notice how there are actually many different response times (not just 1 single number)? Essentially, there are millions of different response times for a single monitor. The response time represents a change from one shade (color) to different shade (color). The monitor companies often pick a shade that has a very low response time, while ignoring how most of the response times are very bad. Also, the fact that they even try to represent millions of response times with just 1 number is just silly (if not misleading all by itself).


Side note: Even if you had a real monitor with 1ms response times (for all the millions of transitions), the LCD monitors would still have a form of "motion blurring" where moving objects blur. This is due to the fact that LCD monitors do not "flicker" or turn off between each frame in an image like CRT monitors did. Some companies have been adding this "flicker" back to LCD monitors so they will no longer blur.
BenQ calls it "Blur Reduction"; Asus calls it "ULMB"; Some brands include it under the name "lightboost"; Eizo calls it "Turbo 240"; future G-sync monitors will let you turn it on by enabling "strobe mode"

ungovernable said:
Do you know which type of panel i have on my Samsung S24A300B ? In my opinion it seems to be good quality (i paid a lot for this monitor when it first came out) but i'm really not an expert with monitors panels...

How does the S24AH-P compares to S24A300B ?

According to http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm, the Samsung you had was a TN panel. The S24AH-P is an IPS panel. Generally, what IPS will give you is better viewing angles and the colors will not shift as much (be different from one side of the screen to the other). IPS isn't perfect though (some of the super, super cheap IPS can be poor quality too). In generally, I prefer to go with non TN monitors if I can help it ... but if you are not quite as picky ... and you can see the monitor in a store and like it, then a TN would probably be a safe choice for you.
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March 24, 2014 5:32:30 PM

Oh i see.. thanks for the class on response time ! I get it now.

I understand that the way companies test the response time is doubtful... But i suppose that they use the same testing method on all of their monitor, so if i compare two monitors of the same brand and one of them has lower response time i suppose it means it is really faster. Not as fast as they claim, but still faster than the other model of the same brand.
So now i just need to figure out of the 4ms difference between the 2 asus model really matters...

Quote:
According to http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm, the Samsung you had was a TN panel. The S24AH-P is an IPS panel. Generally, what IPS will give you is better viewing angles and the colors will not shift as much (be different from one side of the screen to the other). IPS isn't perfect though (some of the super, super cheap IPS can be poor quality too). In generally, I prefer to go with non TN monitors if I can help it ... but if you are not quite as picky ... and you can see the monitor in a store and like it, then a TN would probably be a safe choice for you.

I don't understand, in your first post you said that IPS is better than TN but now you say that TN would be a safer choice ?

Honestly i'm always in front of the monitor so i don't really care about viewing angle, i just want to ensure i'm not buying something of lesser quality than the Samsung i had :p  I will buy the monitor from newegg so unfortunatly i can't test it in a store.
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March 24, 2014 5:36:39 PM

ungovernable said:
Oh i see.. thanks for the class on response time ! I get it now.

I understand that the way companies test the response time is doubtful... But i suppose that they use the same testing method on all of their monitor, so if i compare two monitors of the same brand and one of them has lower response time i suppose it means it is really faster. Not as fast as they claim, but still faster than the other model of the same brand.
So now i just need to figure out of the 4ms difference between the 2 asus model really matters...

Quote:
According to http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm, the Samsung you had was a TN panel. The S24AH-P is an IPS panel. Generally, what IPS will give you is better viewing angles and the colors will not shift as much (be different from one side of the screen to the other). IPS isn't perfect though (some of the super, super cheap IPS can be poor quality too). In generally, I prefer to go with non TN monitors if I can help it ... but if you are not quite as picky ... and you can see the monitor in a store and like it, then a TN would probably be a safe choice for you.

I don't understand, in your first post you said that IPS is better than TN but now you say that TN would be a safer choice ?

Honestly i'm always in front of the monitor so i don't really care about viewing angle, i just want to ensure i'm not buying something of lesser quality than the Samsung i had :p  I will buy the monitor from newegg so unfortunatly i can't test it in a store.

If you can't test it in the store, I would generally only stick with an IPS (or PLS or MVA, which are rarer). Firsthand reviews from people who use the monitor on sites like hardocp.com's forums can usually be helpful, as it is rare to find good reviews on many monitors.
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March 24, 2014 5:39:20 PM

Thanks again for your advices. I'll read a couple of reviews and most likely buy the ASUS VS24AH-P tonight :) 
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March 24, 2014 5:49:50 PM

ungovernable said:
Thanks again for your advices. I'll read a couple of reviews and most likely buy the ASUS VS24AH-P tonight :) 


Well, let me just go ahead and make things more complicated for you. :) 

As for your other question. In this case, I do think the ASUS VG248QE is going to have an actual realistic better response time ... especially since it runs at 120-144Hz while the ASUS VS24AH-P only goes to 60Hz.

120Hz doesn't get rid of all the blurring, but it does help a little bit ... and it gives you some extra frames to work with which may be nice if you have high enough FPS in a game. To really get rid of blurring, you have to actually have the specific "flicker" features I talked about in my previous post AND a high refresh rate at the same time. So, if you actually knew the TN panel on the ASUS VG248QE was good enough for your tastes, you might like having that slight edge the extra refresh rate gives you

These 3 images compare 60Hz to 120Hz to true motion blurring elimination (like CRT's had). Also, 120Hz or 144Hz gives you some extra frames per second (so kind of a slightly less input lag).



As for the ASUS VS24AH-P, did you notice that it was a 16:10 monitor? It has a 1920x1200 resolution, so gives you a tad more vertical space.
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March 24, 2014 5:50:24 PM

ungovernable said:
Thanks again for your advices. I'll read a couple of reviews and most likely buy the ASUS VS24AH-P tonight :) 


Well, let me just go ahead and make things more complicated for you. :) 

As for your other question. In this case, I do think the ASUS VG248QE is going to have an actual realistic better response time ... especially since it runs at 120-144Hz while the ASUS VS24AH-P only goes to 60Hz.

120Hz doesn't get rid of all the blurring, but it does help a little bit ... and it gives you some extra frames to work with which may be nice if you have high enough FPS in a game. To really get rid of blurring, you have to actually have the specific "flicker" features I talked about in my previous post AND a high refresh rate at the same time. So, if you actually knew the TN panel on the ASUS VG248QE was good enough for your tastes, you might like having that slight edge the extra refresh rate gives you

These 3 images compare 60Hz to 120Hz to true motion blurring elimination (like CRT's had). Also, 120Hz or 144Hz gives you some extra frames per second (so kind of a slightly less input lag).
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vsLB/


As for the the other monitor: the ASUS VS24AH-P, did you notice that it was a 16:10 monitor? It has a 1920x1200 resolution, so gives you a tad more vertical space.
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March 24, 2014 5:53:07 PM

FYI, you can't get a perfect monitor (with the best of all features) yet, so you gotta decide on which features to emphasize the most.
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March 24, 2014 5:58:33 PM

OMG, now i don't know which one to pick again hahah...

Should i go with the panel quality or the refresh rate ? If you were to buy it and if you were in my situation, which one would you take personnally ? You are more knowledged than me, so your opinion matters :p 

No i didn't even notice it was a 16:10 monitor, i will most likely stick with 1920x1080 resolution anyway, since i'm used with it.
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March 24, 2014 6:02:54 PM

Well, I know my situation, and I would go with the IPS with the 1920x1200 resolution (I really like more vertical space), but I also know your situation leans more towards gaming AND you also have owned a TN monitor before, so you might actually like having the features on the first Asus more (aka the 120/144Hz)

FYI, most monitors in stores (like Best Buy) are TN panels also, unless they say they are IPS. If you like most monitors in the stores, just like your old Samsung, then the ASUS VG248QE is probably a good choice, since it adds that 120Hz/144Hz.
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March 24, 2014 6:35:41 PM

Yes i've owned a TN monitor before, but that monitor was also 60Hz :p 

Is there a difference in the physical size of the monitor if we compare a 1920x1080 monitor with the 1920x1200 one or is it just the supported resolution ? I'm trying to figure out of the screen size is bigger (vertically) with the 1200 one, but in newegg it just gives the vertical size WITH the stand so i can't compare..

Is there any photo or video that compares TN panel with IPS side-by-side ? Maybe it is a dumb question because i will be looking at it through my TN panel monitor, but i could also check it with my VT50 HDTV.
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March 24, 2014 6:51:49 PM

The 1200 actually has more pixels in the vertical direction... and there is more vertical space as well (physically)... so you have more information you can display vertically on-screen.
It is not a fake resolution, but real pixels. You would run a 1920x1200 monitor at that resolution instead of 1080p all the time.



a TN panel:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/benq_xl2720z/viewing...
an AH-IPS panel:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/dell_u2414h/viewing_...

Note: these are rather extreme angles. The lower angles are a bit more subtle than these.
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March 24, 2014 7:03:24 PM

Those links are not working, i get a blank white page :( 

I searched everywhere but i can't find the size of the 1200px monitor WITHOUT the stand so i could compare with my actual monitor. I'm pretty sure i won't like it if it is too big vertically (i'm talking about the physical size not the resolution) since my speakers are mounted on the top of my monitor and if they end up being too high the sound will suck. I didn't go with a 27" monitor just for this reason.

So after thinking about it i think i may end up buying the VG248QE at least i will be sure it's the same size than my actual monitor
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March 24, 2014 7:25:51 PM

I think this video might help a lot. Run it at 1080p for best quality and see what you think of the picture for normal use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U02a4Z1-htI

This video should tell you if normal use on a TN panel will look good. You might find that it turns out looking find for normal use.... Just check it out and maybe you will know after seeing it in use. :) 
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March 24, 2014 7:57:59 PM

What do you think about this ? NCIX did the test and apparently the average gamer can't even see the difference between 60hz and 120hz. This video is very interessing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWEpIwNDeCA
It's a blind test - the gamer must guess if he's playing with 60hz or 120hz and he can't even tell the difference, he gets it wrong all of the time

Also, take a look at the end of this video, it compares the same image on IPS panels versus TN panel and there is an obvious difference - the colors are MUCH better on the IPS panel (but he's comparing with an expensive IPS Dell monitor) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw0acUxMaKo

So it looks like the difference between 60hz and 120hz is hard to see but the color difference between IPS and TN is seen easily
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March 24, 2014 8:21:56 PM

I know of ONLY 1 monitor that is IPS that can support 96 or 120Hz:
http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-1440p-ips-mo...

But, it is not 24"... it is 27" and has a higher resolution.
Bad sides?
It's not an American brand; they ship these from Korea. The only reason people get them is because they are soooo inexpensive and you literally cannot purchase a 120Hz IPS from anyone else right now.
You have some risks buying from Korea (like warranty?)
The higher resolution requires a faster video card, which kinda defeats the point for gaming?

Then there is this monitor:
EIZO Foris FG2421-BK

It is an MVA panel with 120Hz (MVA panels are quite nice, excellent black levels; they are very close to IPS, but not quite there).
Bad news: it's expensive :( 
For example, one site:
http://www.adorama.com/EIFG2421BK.html?gclid=CNbEzJrdrL...
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March 24, 2014 8:31:15 PM

ungovernable said:
Oh well i just watched the part2 of this test and an experienced gamer can easily see the difference between 60hz and 120hz... so forget what i just said lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_...

Does 120hz monitors with IPS panel exists ?


It is possible they are comparing 60Hz to a flicker monitor (that just happens to run at 120Hz), which is a HUGE difference.
A 60Hz vs a 120Hz is a lot smaller difference than a 60Hz vs a flicker monitor (that happens to run at 120Hz).
This visually shows how different the 3 types are:
http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vsLB/
60 vs 120 = noticeable difference
60 vs flicker monitor (that just happens to run at 120hz) = HUGE difference; makes an LCD like a CRT
I can't find what monitors they were testing in the videos.

Despite my above comments, I agree that 60 vs 120 will be noticeable even without the flicker feature. I would definitely want the 120hz feature if I could get it on a monitor (even without the flicker feature).

Benefits of 120Hz even without the flicker feature:
* They usually have low input lag -- especially to accomodate so many frames per second.
* More frames gives you a better ability to track objects. You see moving objects at more points along it's movement.
* Motion blur is reduced (but not eliminated like the flicker feature)

I say, if you liked the newegg video of that TN 144Hz Asus, then it's probably a very good choice for you. If you are always using the computer straight on and don't do image editing, a TN panel can be fairly good (and you may never notice any issues with the picture). Also, the fact that you used a TN panel for years and liked it, proves that you will probably like using the Asus TN panel.
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March 24, 2014 9:02:18 PM

Thanks again for the infos

I'm not sure if i want to buy a korean brand (scared to have problems with warranty) and the other one is too much expensive :(  It's a shame that Asus doesn't makes 120hz IPS monitors :( 

So back to the starting point... need to decide between IPS or 120hz

What makes me hesitate is that it looks like 120hz would only have advantages in FPS games. I use my computer for gaming only like 20% of the time and i play a lot of strategy games which doesn't require high refresh rate. So if i opt for 120hz, would notice the improvement only around 10% of the time, and if i go with an IPS panel i will notice the color improvement all of the time.

Quote:
I say, if you liked the newegg video of that TN 144Hz Asus, then it's probably a very good choice for you. If you are always using the computer straight on and don't do image editing, a TN panel can be fairly good (and you may never notice any issues with the picture). Also, the fact that you used a TN panel for years and liked it, proves that you will probably like using the Asus TN panel.

I work as a graphic designer and webdesigner so yeah i do a LOT of image editing and i spend a lot more time doing that compared to gaming. Sorry, should have mentioned that earlier :p 

Yes, i've used TN panels for years (i have 3 at home) and was never disapointed about them, but i've never seen an IPS panel to compare ! Maybe i will not want to go back after, but the same thing can happen with 120hz too...
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March 24, 2014 9:08:39 PM

I can demonstrate a few issues that affect image editing:

So... you have a TN panel right now...
Open up a paint program and fill up the screen with like a blue or a purple. Make it cover the entire screen. On a TN or MVA panel, usually the colors will not be consistent from one edge of the screen to the other. The center might be the correct color, but the edges might take on a purple shade or the top or bottom may turn out slightly off.

As for the 120Hz, I just don't know. I know it is noticeable, but would I give it up for a TN? I wouldn't.

BTW, that extra 1020 pixels in 1920x1200 (on the IPS panel you mentioned) might be useful for non-gaming stuff... as it gives you extra vertical room to work with.
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March 24, 2014 9:10:52 PM

The VS24AH-P is a matte screen or glossy ?
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March 24, 2014 9:13:07 PM

On this thread, they say it is a matte screen, but not as aggressive of a matte finish as some older models.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1760364

I don't know if that means it's full matte finish or a semi-glossy/semi-matte.
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March 25, 2014 3:21:03 AM

I just came across a new IPS monitor that we haven't talked yet : the VN248H-P http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

it looks like a 1080px version of the VS24AH-P which would be perfect for me since i don't like the extra height. Plus, it's very cheap (175$ after rebate)

What do you think about it ? Is there any other difference between the VN248H-P and the VS24AH-P, beside the size and resolution ?
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Best solution

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March 25, 2014 11:19:14 AM

ungovernable said:
I just came across a new IPS monitor that we haven't talked yet : the VN248H-P http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

it looks like a 1080px version of the VS24AH-P which would be perfect for me since i don't like the extra height. Plus, it's very cheap (175$ after rebate)

What do you think about it ? Is there any other difference between the VN248H-P and the VS24AH-P, beside the size and resolution ?


Not really. It is also IPS with matte finish. There's also cheaper ones, some different brands, and some with other features, on newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=P...
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March 25, 2014 12:02:24 PM

I just bought the VN248H-P

Thanks a lot for the great advices :) 
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