Fx-8350 GPU limiting?

Sam601

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Hi everyone :)

In gaming oriented computer, is the fx-8350 a good option?
Considering the fact that i'll try to overclock it, will is it going to limitate the potential of a gtx 770/760 SLI?

And if not, what motherboard would recommand me to buy to go along this processor. I want to make water cooling, i have around 100-200$ to spend, i'm going to make SLI. If possible, i would like to motherboard to be red/black

Thank you for reading and have a great day. ;)
 
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apcs13

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The 8350 will not bottleneck a GTX 770 or GTX 760, in fact my 6350 (OC to 4.4 GHz however) doesn't even really impact the performance of my GTX 770.
However, an 8350 will for sure bottleneck a 770 SLI configuration, and probably a 760 SLI config as well.

It seems to me though that you will be buying a SLI setup right out of the gate though. SLI isn't a good idea really unless you already have a good GPU that you want to use, it's not a great idea to buy 2 760's or 2 770's right now, I would suggest instead a 780 or 780 Ti.

Also, if you're spending that much on your GPU, I would at least get a 3570K.
 

Sam601

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Thank you for you answer.
Don't worry, I wasn't going to make a SLi setup until one or two years. So if the fx 8350 will bottleneck a SLI setup, what's the cheapest processor that could follow a gtx 770 SLI?
 

apcs13

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I would say anof an i5-3570K would work fine, and it would be best to overclock that as well once you get the SLI ready to go. If you can find a 4670K, 3770K, or 4770K for a close price and you can afford it, though, they are potentially better choices, mostly the i7's, but that doesn't help all too much in gaming, so don't worry about it.
 

apcs13

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It actually doesn't say that, those results actually show that the 4670K is a fair bit better than the 8350 in many tasks, including graphically intense programs, such as gaming. Trust me, I know AMD is good, I have a 6350 in my own PC with a GTX 770, but if you're spending eventually $600-700 on GPU's while retaining the same CPU, it is much more worth it to get the full potential out of your expensive equipment. Besides, that is with the i5 running the stock 3.4 GHz speed, and the 8350 at the stock 4.0 GHz. If you bring the 4670K up to 4-4.5 GHz (not to hard to do with decent cooling and motherboard), it will walk all over the 8350. The advantage of having the 8350 to take advantage of more threads, which might be useful in the future, but I think that by that time, the architecture in the 8350 will be underpowered for the newer CPU-intensive games. If you were spending $450 or less on graphics processors, I would be all about the 8350. But since it is so much money it's just worth it to spend a little more.

Also, single threaded performance of all Core Intel CPU's is so much better than AMD's, just look at the statistics, it performs on average 53% better than the 8350 in single threaded tasks. Most games use 2-4 threads right now, probably not 8 until 2-4 years from now, so it would be more advantageous to get the 3570K/4670K, or even an i7 3/4770K for the boost of hyperthreading.

In the end it is 100% your decision, I myself got an AMD chip with my $350 GPU, but I have overclocked it a fair bit and made the sacrifice from getting an Intel CPU to get the 770, since I know GPU's are more important for gaming than CPUs.

Good luck.
 

Sam601

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Thanks a lot for answering.

The thing is that my budget is pretty thigth. If I buy a I5 4670k, I'll have to cheap on my graphic card.

I was planning to work and make SLI setup when my graphic card will get old instead of having to change it.

I'll use this computer mostly for gaming so figured out it would be a better option to put more money on my GPU than on my CPU. And I think that games that are CPU intensive mostly use more core, like MMO's, Rome 2 and BF4 AMD performs better at those kind of games than Intel.

And the other games I play ( Thief, Bioshock, Dishonored ) use mostly the graphic card so a better CPU would be useless.

Aslo, doesn't the FX-8350 have higher overclocking capacity than an I5 4670-k?

So do you still think i should go for a i5 4670-k ? Because it's gonna hurt my wallet :lol:.
 

apcs13

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As you can see in my message, I also suggested Haswell processors right next to Ivy Bridge ones. Also, at some retailers, Ivy Bridge CPUs are still somewhat cheaper than their Haswell counterparts, although that is not the reason why I included Ivy Bridge in my list of suggestions.

The reason I also listed Ivy Bridge processors along with Haswell is because Haswell isn't really anything special when compared to Ivy Bridge. While Ivy Bridge is older, Haswell usually sees at best a 3% performance increase over an Ivy Bridge counterpart, which would probably be 1 FPS in gaming, which is not worth buying a more expensive component over (if Haswell did cost more across the board).

The real reason on why I also listed CPUs using Ivy Bridge is because while they(Ivy Bridge) may consume more power, they generally also run a bit cooler and overclock anywhere from a little to a lot better. There have been many complaints that Haswell does not OC as well as Ivy Bridge due to a less effective thermal solution on the chip's silicon, and this is apparently true because those who were bold enough to open the actual processor and replace it themselves saw better OC performance, and Intel themselves admitted to this recently when announcing their new slightly modified Haswell line that will include a better thermal solution, which will most likely lead to better temperatures and overclocking capabilities. However this means that potentially on current existing Haswell processors, if you overclock that VS an Ivy Bridge, if you can OC the Ivy Bridge platform more than the Haswell, you will actually see better performance on the Ivy Bridge processor.

But, as I stated before in this reply and in this thread, it is really up to the user to decide. Haswell is by no means even CLOSE to being a poor architecture, and if the OP decides to go for a 4670K over a 3570K that is wonderful. Same if they decide to go the other way. What is bad is if they would choose (for some reason) a 4670K over a 3770K, because the 3770K will usually outperform the 4670K.
 

apcs13

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Well, there are a few things that I would like to discuss, but to answer you up-front: You should find the GPU that you want first, then balance the budget keeping the GPU in mind, and get the best CPU you can afford without sacrificing GPU power. Now, this would be bad pairing a GTX 780 Ti with an old Core 2 Duo at 2 GHz, but I think you understand what I am saying. Just to emphasize this again, even though you already know it, the GPU is much more important for gaming than the processor.

So, that being said, no, do not go with a 3570K/4670K/3770K/4770K if you need to downgrade your graphics card. An 8350 will not bottleneck any single GPU (except maybe the 780 Ti and a tiny, tiny bit the 780), and while it may hurt you if you do SLI 770's in the future, its not worth initially downgrading your GPU.

Now, I do have to say you're wrong on that bit on the CPU intensive games. Every single game you listed there besides Battlefield 4 would run better on an Intel chip. MMO's actually usually only use 2 cores, so the better single-threaded performance that Intel CPUs have would be better for 99% of MMO games. Same goes for Rome 2 and most other strategy games. Even Battlefield 4 doesn't perform "better" per say (will explain in a few, just bear with me).

While AMD processors perform pretty well in BF4, chips like the 4670K/3570K and 3770K/4770K will still outperform the 8350 in Battlefield 4. You might be confused at this, thinking all of the partnership DICE has had with AMD and they're hardware sponsors and that BF4 is made for multi-core CPUs and well threaded etc. etc. Well, while this is true, Windows itself is actually kind of the first issue, as it tries to minimize core usage and use less cores, therefore pushing more tasks on fewer cores rather than spreading it out. Unparking cores helps with this though, and I think it is a touch better on Windows 8. Also, even though BF4 is well-optimized for multi-core CPU's, it still uses 4 main processors for most of the work, then the other 4 are still used (if available on the CPU), but do not work as hard, if that makes any sense to you. Also, a lot of the AMD optimization went towards the GPU side of things, not as much CPU. In the end, Intel even beats AMD in Battlefield. HOWEVER: this is at a much higher price point, and those gains in performance might not be worth it to you whatsoever.

You're pretty much about most other games relying mostly on the GPU, although when there are large crowds in games that uses CPU power.

That overclocking comment depends on a lot of factors: The cooling used, the temperature of the room, the size of the power supply, the motherboard quality, etc. In a cold room with great water cooling and tons of radiators on the top tier motherboards, both chips can reach really high frequencies. However, this is probably not true for you and isn't true for most people, optimal conditions are almost never reached. It is true that the 8350 overclocks easier at first due to it's higher stock clock and such, but the 4670K can reach almost the same speeds with some effort put into it, although a lot of people run 8350's at 5.1 GHz day-to-day comfortably and have to back off of their Ivy Bridge(3570K etc.) (generally OC's even better than Haswell (4670K etc.)) aroung 4.7 to 4.8 GHz. So, in short, it may be easier to OC the 8350.


TL; DR Sorry for the massive post, but I really am trying to do the best I can to help you out! It may seem like I am trashing AMD here today, but in reality Intel chips very often do outperform AMD. However, I myself use an AMD processor, because their price-performance ration is leagues better than Intel's, and they work fine for gaming and the FX series overclock fantastically.

BOTTOM LINE: after looking at your situation, you do not want to cheap out on the GPU for a better CPU. Stick with the FX-8350, it is a great processor, especially considering price-performance.
 
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apcs13

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Yes, roughly $90-100, but the 3770K outperforms the 4(6/7)0K and has the potential to overclock better by a varying degree. Some people achieve .1 GHz more than the 4(6/7)70K, others the same, but a lot of people manage to OC the 3(5/7)70K 0.3-0.6 GHZ more than the 4(6/7)70K, resulting in even more performance

 

apcs13

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It's actually kind of a toss-up, a few sources say that the 4670K beats out the 3570K but quite a few sources also say that it is the opposite: http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1158&page=14

Also, with the higher OC threshold on the 3570K, it can potentially definitively beat the 4670K when overclocked.

Either way, the performance difference is negligible. In reality, you're getting pretty much the exact same performance at the same clock speeds.
 

Sam601

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You're an awesome person for giving me so much time. I really apreciate.

I think i understand your point of view. To make things simple, this is what i planing to buy:

- http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/3hxGS

Do you think it is a well optimized configuration? If not what would you change? I'm thinking of taking off the SSD and get the I5 4670-k, would it be a good idea?
 

apcs13

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I think both processors would be great for that configuration. Personally, at this point, I think that SSD's are completely frivolous because you can find a 1TB 7200 RPM hard drive for less than what a 120GB SSD costs, and SSD's just improve boot time, file transfer speed, and loading times, etc. However, I haven't had a chance to use one for a very extended period of time(more than a few days), and those that have had that chance swear by SSD's and almost refuse to use a PC that doesn't use one. Personally, I take good care of my hard drive, and it boots and shuts down as well as loads and transfers data very quickly and works fine for me. But I think that SSD's are very cool.

In the end, as with pretty much everything else, it comes down to personal preference. You can have really fast boot times and such with an SSD and a great multitasking and gaming processor to compliment your speedy GPU, or you can have a killer top of the line processor, but it will take a bit longer to start up your PC and load games.

If it were me, I would probably go with the 4670K, the difference with an SSD is really like 30 seconds tops in most cases unless you do a lot of huge file transfers (does not affect how fast games download either), and I think it is worth waiting that small amount of time to upgrade your CPU. Keep in mind, that means you also have to choose a new decent motherboard as well.

But, in the end, it's up to you. I hope that I've helped you in some way!

ALSO: I believe you can get a Western Digital Caviar Blue hard drive that has 1TB of storage and is faster than that hard drive for like $3 more if you're interested. I would highly recommended, 500GB goes a lot faster than it used to. Link to drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769
 

Sam601

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Okay thanks man. I could aslo get a r9 280x instead of the ssd. Wich configuration would perform better?

Also can you link me benchmark of the i5 4670-k and of the fx 8320 to help me make a choice?