Low FPS with GTX 760
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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Sayco
April 4, 2014 6:40:39 AM
So i upgraded my graphics card yesterday from gtx 550 ti to gtx 760. I am getting about 30 fps on ultra settings and dropping as low as 20 fps while playing Elder Scrolls Online.
Specs:
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
Intel Core 2 Extreme CPU Q6850 3.0 GHz
8GB DDR3 1600 Mhz
1TB HDD
ZOTAC GTX 760 AMP! Edition
PSU Ultra 650W
Now i know that you will probably mention a bottleneck between the CPU and GPU but when I am running the game, the GPU load is at 50% and CPU is at roughly 35 - 40 %.
I have no idea whats going on and why my frames are so low. Temps are fine i think, max is 65c.
If anyone has some tips or an idea. I also re-installed win 8.1 but kept my personal files.
Specs:
Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
Intel Core 2 Extreme CPU Q6850 3.0 GHz
8GB DDR3 1600 Mhz
1TB HDD
ZOTAC GTX 760 AMP! Edition
PSU Ultra 650W
Now i know that you will probably mention a bottleneck between the CPU and GPU but when I am running the game, the GPU load is at 50% and CPU is at roughly 35 - 40 %.
I have no idea whats going on and why my frames are so low. Temps are fine i think, max is 65c.
If anyone has some tips or an idea. I also re-installed win 8.1 but kept my personal files.
More about : low fps gtx 760
benfulks
April 4, 2014 6:59:07 AM
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tylerpol
April 4, 2014 6:59:20 AM
I have a very similar setup to yours, with a GTX 760. The main differences are only that I have an OCed Core i5 4670k (4.4GHz) and faster RAM (2400MHz). I doubt the RAM is making much of a difference for me in terms of frame rates.
I get a steady 60 fps in ESO with all settings maxed and only a slight drop when first entering really crowded battle areas in Tamriel (i.e. 200+ player battles). So yeah, if the RAM speed difference between our rigs is not a big factor (I say this only because it rarely is for a lot of games), then I would hazard a guess and say it's likely that you CPU is a bottleneck.
The only other thing I would suggest you try if you haven't already is updating your nvidia drivers. If you have a really old version, that could also result in you have really low framerates in new games.
EDIT: I would definitely recommend you try what benfulks suggested, that would be a good way to pin down the CPU as a major bottleneck or not.
I get a steady 60 fps in ESO with all settings maxed and only a slight drop when first entering really crowded battle areas in Tamriel (i.e. 200+ player battles). So yeah, if the RAM speed difference between our rigs is not a big factor (I say this only because it rarely is for a lot of games), then I would hazard a guess and say it's likely that you CPU is a bottleneck.
The only other thing I would suggest you try if you haven't already is updating your nvidia drivers. If you have a really old version, that could also result in you have really low framerates in new games.
EDIT: I would definitely recommend you try what benfulks suggested, that would be a good way to pin down the CPU as a major bottleneck or not.
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:05:03 AM
benfulks said:
we cant say for sure quite yet. i would say try and do a under clock on it, note the fps then do an over clock on it, note the fps and let us know your findings.I have never overclocked a CPU, maybe you can point me in the right direction? Also, wouldn't the CPU usage be much higher for a bottleneck?
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It's gotta be the CPU. But before we jump to that conclusion, where exactly are you getting this low FPS? In crowded areas? Where does your FPS sit when you're in an indoor area alone? Use benfulks suggestion as well to see if your FPS budges at all by over/underclocking.
EDIT: What motherboard do you have? We'll be able to help you overclock if your motherboard's chipset supports overclocking, since we know the CPU does for sure.
EDIT: What motherboard do you have? We'll be able to help you overclock if your motherboard's chipset supports overclocking, since we know the CPU does for sure.
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:07:32 AM
The Letter Mu said:
It's gotta be the CPU. But before we jump to that conclusion, where exactly are you getting this low FPS? In crowded areas? Where does your FPS sit when you're in an indoor area alone? Use benfulks suggestion as well to see if your FPS budges at all by over/underclocking.With no one around and out in the open (only npc enemies around) i am hitting max 40 fps in ultra and dipping as low as 20 if it starts raining. Combat will also drop it
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:07:32 AM
The Letter Mu said:
It's gotta be the CPU. But before we jump to that conclusion, where exactly are you getting this low FPS? In crowded areas? Where does your FPS sit when you're in an indoor area alone? Use benfulks suggestion as well to see if your FPS budges at all by over/underclocking.With no one around and out in the open (only npc enemies around) i am hitting max 40 fps in ultra and dipping as low as 20 if it starts raining. Combat will also drop it
EDIT ASUS P5P43TD is the motherboard i use
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:10:37 AM
if GPU won't get higher than 50% load in games as you mentionned then there is a CPU bottleneck, those old CPU while being 4 core CPU's don,t have the single thread performance of todays CPU and if a core gets taxed to 100% in a game (wich must be almost always the case with such a CPU) then there you go...the GPU won't get fed enough data...many games still use only 2 heavy thread for data processing on the CPU, those games would need a better performance of the cores in order to process the data required for the GPU...sorry
I had a similar setup with a core 2 quad Q6600 overclocked at 3.6ghz paired with a HD7950 GPU and when i swapped that to the FX-8320 the minimum fps in games took a GIANT leap...went from like 25-30fps to about 55-60 fps...and then i swapped the 7950 for a GTX780 and now it's just plain EPIC...
I had a similar setup with a core 2 quad Q6600 overclocked at 3.6ghz paired with a HD7950 GPU and when i swapped that to the FX-8320 the minimum fps in games took a GIANT leap...went from like 25-30fps to about 55-60 fps...and then i swapped the 7950 for a GTX780 and now it's just plain EPIC...
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If 65C is the CPU temp it might be thermally throttling as well. It's an older C2Q setup so there could be a lot of dust in there. Before you OC you should clean the heatsink really well and possibly upgrade the cooling. (If you are using the stock HSF I would upgrade it before attempting any kind of OC.)
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:20:09 AM
The Letter Mu said:
That board should be able to overclock. First, what do your CPU temperatures look like? Download HWMonitor to see them. We want to see if it'll be safe to overclock.4745454b said:
If 65C is the CPU temp it might be thermally throttling as well. It's an older C2Q setup so there could be a lot of dust in there. Before you OC you should clean the heatsink really well and possibly upgrade the cooling. (If you are using the stock HSF I would upgrade it before attempting any kind of OC.)I forget which cooling system i purchased, this was about 3 years ago. But ya while running the game at ultra, max CPU temp is 60C
EDIT: jumping between 56-58C
EDIT: Quick question, what is CPUTIN?
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Overclocking should be feasible. If you enter your BIOS, you should be able to navigate to some options to adjust your Clock Multiplier, Base Clock, and Voltages. Let us know if you can see those before we proceed.
EDIT: maddogfargo is correct. AFAIC ESO is in Beta, and your processor doesn't have an L3 cache, just a very large L2. I'm not the best on cache speeds, but since that L2 is so large (8MB) I'm guessing it wouldn't be as fast as the L2's we have in our modern CPU's (which move that large amount of cache to L3, leaving <1MB to the L2). I can see the C2Q receiving that data and not going through it as fast.
EDIT: maddogfargo is correct. AFAIC ESO is in Beta, and your processor doesn't have an L3 cache, just a very large L2. I'm not the best on cache speeds, but since that L2 is so large (8MB) I'm guessing it wouldn't be as fast as the L2's we have in our modern CPU's (which move that large amount of cache to L3, leaving <1MB to the L2). I can see the C2Q receiving that data and not going through it as fast.
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benfulks
April 4, 2014 7:23:29 AM
from the sounds of it right now. i am thinking you do have a cpu bottleneck issue. you have to remember you are pinging 1 core to 100% and the another core at 90%. you dont have the turbo boost feature of newer cpus so windows is only going to see very limited cpu usage if the game is not threaded for 4 cores.
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:24:29 AM
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maddogfargo said:
How many CPU cores can ESO use? If it is not well optimized for multicore CPUs, it may max out 1-2 cores to 100%, but that will only show as 25%-50% overall CPU usage.MMOs like Guild Wars 2 and Neverwinter also share this similar trend. They usually get better optimized over time.
Exactly, as i said in a previous post that was ignored, the CPU gets maxed out on 1 or 2 core and can't feed the required data for the GPU to produce acceptable framerates...overclocking it, un-dusting it or whatever you could do to it will have minimal effect on the performance of this CPU cause it does not have the required performance per core required for modern baldy optimised games...i'm sure in games that will use 4 or 6 cores the performance offered from such a CPU will be much better...but in games that use 1 or 2 threads only you will see that bottleneck...and overclocking will indeed improve the minimum framerates but only by a slight margin. Has i stated i had my Q6600 overclocked under an hyper 212 cooler and still the performances in game was bellow average...oh and BTW those CPU does not throttle down like modern cpu's when they get hot, they get hotter and hotter and keep the ghz up until they reach the built in treashold protection and when that happens the PC reboot...trust me i know
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benfulks
April 4, 2014 7:28:45 AM
Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:30:47 AM
benfulks said:
woah you sure its C? that is EXTREMELY HOT!Cant be, the CPU would be melted on the board at this point in time
EDIT: OH that has to be the VRM's temp on the motherboard...not the CPU temps.
My recommandation would be to overclock the CPU only if you have a good cpu cooler in hand like a cooler master hyper 212 or something like that...otherwise you might damage your CPU/motherboard and it will not be worth it you will get 2-3 more fps in games, nothing more than that...you need a mobo/cpu/ram upgrade to enjoy your GPU fully...
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:37:48 AM
paitjsu sadff said:
benfulks said:
woah you sure its C? that is EXTREMELY HOT!Cant be, the CPU would be melted on the board at this point in time
EDIT: OH that has to be the VRM's temp on the motherboard...not the CPU temps.
My recommandation would be to overclock the CPU only if you have a good cpu cooler in hand like a cooler master hyper 212 or something like that...otherwise you might damage your CPU/motherboard and it will not be worth it you will get 2-3 more fps in games, nothing more than that...you need a mobo/cpu/ram upgrade to enjoy your GPU fully...
The Letter Mu said:
Bad sensors? I'm almost certain that if those are that high, your other temps would be high as well.Here is a screen shot:
http://i.imgur.com/BZHzQWK.png
Also, If it is a CPU bottleneck then which graphics card do you guys recommend thats an upgrade from the 550 ti that won't bottleneck my CPU?
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:39:26 AM
paitjsu sadff said:
benfulks said:
woah you sure its C? that is EXTREMELY HOT!Cant be, the CPU would be melted on the board at this point in time
EDIT: OH that has to be the VRM's temp on the motherboard...not the CPU temps.
My recommandation would be to overclock the CPU only if you have a good cpu cooler in hand like a cooler master hyper 212 or something like that...otherwise you might damage your CPU/motherboard and it will not be worth it you will get 2-3 more fps in games, nothing more than that...you need a mobo/cpu/ram upgrade to enjoy your GPU fully...
I do have a cooler master, i just don't remember which one. I know its capable of water cooling but i don't have that setup
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Sayco said:
Also, If it is a CPU bottleneck then which graphics card do you guys recommend thats an upgrade from the 550 ti that won't bottleneck my CPU?
won't you have a 760 already?
i wont suggest downgrading the video card i'd suggest upgrading the CPU/MOBO/RAM instead...
Here's the gaming CPU chart from tom's hardware, they recommand upgrading the CPU to at least a 3 tiers up one...so from your CPU a good upgrade would be either a core i5 or a 6 core FX or 8 core FX from AMD...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-o...
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benfulks
April 4, 2014 7:49:26 AM
again i think now we are going to have upgrade the cpu and mobo at this time. you are going to have fps issues in that game regardless of the GPU at this time. we are making the determination IF the cpu is truly bottle-necking the GPU. we can all jump to conclusions but we dont have concrete evidence. we need you mess with cpu to clocks to make that determination. i dont want to convince you to go out and invest in something if it happens to be a software issue.
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:55:49 AM
paitjsu sadff said:
Sayco said:
Also, If it is a CPU bottleneck then which graphics card do you guys recommend thats an upgrade from the 550 ti that won't bottleneck my CPU?
won't you have a 760 already?
i wont suggest downgrading the video card i'd suggest upgrading the CPU/MOBO/RAM instead...
Here's the gaming CPU chart from tom's hardware, they recommand upgrading the CPU to at least a 3 tiers up one...so from your CPU a good upgrade would be either a core i5 or a 6 core FX or 8 core FX from AMD...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-o...
Thanks for the link, your right although the upgrade to a new CPU/motherboard will have to wait for me.
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:56:31 AM
benfulks said:
again i think now we are going to have upgrade the cpu and mobo at this time. you are going to have fps issues in that game regardless of the GPU at this time. we are making the determination IF the cpu is truly bottle-necking the GPU. we can all jump to conclusions but we dont have concrete evidence. we need you mess with cpu to clocks to make that determination. i dont want to convince you to go out and invest in something if it happens to be a software issue.I was in my BOIS and was completely confused on how to overclock. Which options am I looking for?
EDIT: there were OC options but I couldnt find the one for CPU, although i really don't know what i am looking for
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Best solution
benfulks said:
again i think now we are going to have upgrade the cpu and mobo at this time. you are going to have fps issues in that game regardless of the GPU at this time. we are making the determination IF the cpu is truly bottle-necking the GPU. we can all jump to conclusions but we dont have concrete evidence. we need you mess with cpu to clocks to make that determination. i dont want to convince you to go out and invest in something if it happens to be a software issue.I played skyrim on my overclocked to 3.6ghz Q6600 and it was major bottleneck for even an HD7950...
if OP want to make sure the CPU is the bottleneck no need to mess with the CPU, all he has to do is lower the resolution to the minimum possible in the game and turn of AA...if he gets around the same minimum FPS then that prooves it's a CPU bottleneck...
EDIT: OP please confirm you've read that, don't mess with your CPU yet, try to get the load off the GPU first by lowering the resolution and turning anti-aliasing off to get loads only on the CPU and see what happens, if you get the same LOW minimum framerates then that prooves that your CPU is not feeding your GPU enough data...but you are loosing your time i know for a fact that such a CPU is a major bottleneck in games that use 1 or 2 threads like ESO...
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 7:58:46 AM
paitjsu sadff said:
benfulks said:
again i think now we are going to have upgrade the cpu and mobo at this time. you are going to have fps issues in that game regardless of the GPU at this time. we are making the determination IF the cpu is truly bottle-necking the GPU. we can all jump to conclusions but we dont have concrete evidence. we need you mess with cpu to clocks to make that determination. i dont want to convince you to go out and invest in something if it happens to be a software issue.I played skyrim on my overclocked to 3.6ghz Q6600 and it was major bottleneck for even an HD7950...
if OP want to make sure the CPU is the bottleneck no need to mess with the CPU, all he has to do is lower the resolution to the minimum possible in the game and turn of AA...if he gets around the same minimum FPS then that prooves it's a CPU bottleneck...
So your suggestion is to keep the ultra setting and reduce resolution and turn off AA and if the fps is the same then its a bottleneck?
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Sayco said:
So your suggestion is to keep the ultra setting and reduce resolution and turn off AA and if the fps is the same then its a bottleneck?
EXACTLY, the MINIMUM fps, not the average or maximum, just look at the MINIMUM FPS...cause at some point the game will skyrockets to 100 or even 200 FPS...but when calculation will be done on the CPU the fps will drop again...play with those mentionned settings for some minutes to make sure you get a good overall feel of the performance, is it better minimum framerates or not...
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 8:03:02 AM
paitjsu sadff said:
Sayco said:
So your suggestion is to keep the ultra setting and reduce resolution and turn off AA and if the fps is the same then its a bottleneck?
EXACTLY
Thanks, I did it and yes the frame rate is consistent. This sucks lol
Is it better to just put in my 550 ti until I can upgrade or it doesn't matter?
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Sayco said:
paitjsu sadff said:
Sayco said:
So your suggestion is to keep the ultra setting and reduce resolution and turn off AA and if the fps is the same then its a bottleneck?
EXACTLY
Thanks, I did it and yes the frame rate is consistent. This sucks lol
Is it better to just put in my 550 ti until I can upgrade or it doesn't matter?
no problem, no you keep your 760 in and lower the settings...some settings wont affect the CPU at all like Anti-aliasing or texture quality/resolution for example, that will allow you to use more eyecandy from your GPU...the better GPU will also provide better average framerates...try to find out wich settings affect the CPU performance the most in the game and lower those (usualy the shadows and rendering distances settings for example are the CPU heavy features)
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 8:15:36 AM
you are very welcome, when you will be ready to upgrade your CPU/MOBO/RAM don't hesitate to seek out assistance to make sure you do some great choices...See ya ! Also keep in mind that many modern game nowadays uses 4 threads (4 core on your CPU) and more and in those games the CPU bottleneck will be much less significant cause the work loads are splitted across more core, thus helping out your CPU a lot...skyrim engine's is somewhat ancient in that he uses only 2 core from your CPU to process thremendous amount of data...
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Forgot about that method paitjsu! I used to tell people in ArmA 2 to do that. It needs a good CPU and GPU, and that method seemed to isolate a few problems. I used to play ArmA 2 on an i5 750 (board locked it at 2.67GHz
) and a GT520. Lowering the resolution helped none, therefore either I could get a P55 MOBO and OC, or just get a newer i5.
) and a GT520. Lowering the resolution helped none, therefore either I could get a P55 MOBO and OC, or just get a newer i5.
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Sayco
April 4, 2014 8:35:34 AM
paitjsu sadff said:
you are very welcome, when you will be ready to upgrade your CPU/MOBO/RAM don't hesitate to seek out assistance to make sure you do some great choices...See ya ! Also keep in mind that many modern game nowadays uses 4 threads (4 core on your CPU) and more and in those games the CPU bottleneck will be much less significant cause the work loads are splitted across more core, thus helping out your CPU a lot...skyrim engine's is somewhat ancient in that he uses only 2 core from your CPU to process thremendous amount of data...Thanks for the info! Also I want to thank you for the settings recommendation. I was able to get a consistent 60 fps by reducing shadow quality, view distance and water quality and having the rest at max. The game still looks great! definitely much better then how i had it with my 550 ti.
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The Letter Mu said:
Forgot about that method paitjsu! I used to tell people in ArmA 2 to do that. It needs a good CPU and GPU, and that method seemed to isolate a few problems. I used to play ArmA 2 on an i5 750 (board locked it at 2.67GHz
) and a GT520. Lowering the resolution helped none, therefore either I could get a P55 MOBO and OC, or just get a newer i5.you are right about Arma this game uses ressources from both the GPU and CPU equaly, but we are talking about another game here and it's a very CPU dependant one as it uses only 2 threads on the CPU so it's a good one to isolate a CPU bottleneck that way...the cores on his CPU are not strong enough to process the data required for the game at ultra settings to allow the GPU to produce better framerates and the test he made shows that very well...sorry
Sayco said:
Thanks for the info! Also I want to thank you for the settings recommendation. I was able to get a consistent 60 fps by reducing shadow quality, view distance and water quality and having the rest at max. The game still looks great! definitely much better then how i had it with my 550 ti.
exactly, one can learn to optimize the games settings in order to get the most out of them, it can be either the GPU or the CPU that is the bottleneck and lowering the settings accordingly will improve performance greatly while minimizing impact on the rendering quality.
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