Dual Intel Xeon X5650 for gaming

Well that would mostly depend on the GPU.

First, Bambiboom, I want to thank you immensely for all of the great information you post here. It has been absolutely invaluable in my discerning the good from the bad in the quagmire of new processors and systems, especially relating to 3D rendering and workstations.

My questions to the community, building upon the above, are:
If I were to get an
Intel Xeon X5650, just one,
and put in a good card, I'm thinking the Nvidia Quadro K4000
with 16 Gb RAM

Two questions:
Would I be able to upgrade the RAM on the MB up to 32 GB when Autodesk brings up their reqmts?
And, more importantly,
Would I be able to RUN 3-D Studio Max with VRay and do rendering?

Thank you so much!

sofiap,

Much depends on where you're starting- whether you're upgrading a system, buying a used system, or building, and how much you want to spend. What's your situation?

CPU: My first choice for the Xeon x56X0 processors is the 6-core x5680 because it has a higher clock speed 3.3 / 3.6GHz:

http://ark.intel.com/products/47916/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X5680-12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

The x5680 supports 288GB of RAM. By the way, these are triple channel, so RAM is installed in sets of three for optimal performance. So 3 X 4=12, 3 X 8 will give you 24GB or 3 X 16= 48GB.

However, if you're thinking about a single Xeon system for 3ds Max and rendering, a better choice would be the Xeon E5-1650 v2 (3.5 /3.9GHz) and running DDR3 1866 speed RAM instead of the 1333 of the x5650 or 5680. Of course, there a price difference: an average ebahh x5650 is only about $80, an x5680 is $350, and a new E5-1650 v2 is $590 (Superbiiz).

If you already have an LGA1366 system and are only changing the CPU and GPU, then I would prefer the faster x5680, but if the budget is restricted, then the x5650 should be acceptable. Actually $80 for a 6-core CPU at 2.66 / 3.06 seems very reasonable, but at that speed, having a pair working would be much better.

You could buy a used Dell Precision T7500 with 2X x5680- that's 12 cores/24 threads, relatively reasonably:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-PRECISION-T7500-2x-3-33GHz-SIX-CORE-X5680-12GB-RAM-80GB-HDD-WIN7-PRO-/380996504483?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item58b5294ba3

> a current (9.14.14.) listing for a system $1,069 or offers. Then you add RAM- I think those systems can have up to 192GB- and replace the GPU.

GPU: The K4000 is very good and given that the new K4200 (4GB, 1344 CUDA, about $890) has been out a couple of months, the price for a used K4000 should drop. If you are buying new, spend the extra $150 for a K4200 as it performs as well as the K5000. The new K5200 (8GB, 2304 CUDA, about $2,000) should be an impressive card and consequently, used K5000's (4GB, 1536CUDA) will have to sell for $500-600 or so to be worthwhile to buy since the new K4200 for $900 is the equivalent or better.

Always complicated!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

And this Dell Workstation T7500 supports the Quadro k4200?

arvmetal,

The Quadro K4200 would be a very good performer in a T7500. On Passmark, the K4200 has an average 3D score of 4546. For a workstation card this is very good. not long ago, a workstsion card looked pitiful in 3D benchmarks as compared to gaming cards, but no more. For gaming even the K4200 would probably be quite adequate- looking at comparative scores, the experience would be similar to a GTX 660Ti. A GTX 760 compared to the top Quadro two generations back, the $3,600 6GB Quadro 6000 which scores 3445, and the $1,700 Quadro K5000 of the previous generation with 3998. The K5200 ($1,900) scores a bit faster than a GTX 680- which is near to serious gaming performance. Another good feature is that the K4200 uses 108W and this is important for a single eight card. I just checked the Quadro 4000 I use, (scored 2044) which is uses 142W and was alarmed to see it running at 92C.

Of course, you could consider running a GTX and seeing if it is satisfactory for whatever work you're doing, but I tried a GTX 285 with various programs Sketchup, AutoCad, and Solidworks and never had a useable rendering- in fact Solidworks was more or less impossible. A T7500 with dual X5650's and a GTX 680 had a 3D score of 4803. But as mentioned, the 4546 of the K4200 probably would not seem slow. A system with a pair of 4-core X5550 (@2.67GHz) and a GTX 780 Ti had a a3D score of 7341.

If you're looking for a T7500, search for systems with the Xeon six-core X5680 3.33 / 3.6GHZ) or X5690, (3.47 / 3.6GHz)

Cheers,

Bambiboom

Thanks Bambiboom!, you were very explicative.
I have one more doubt, The refurbished Z800 are very cheap, I think I going for this one, but my first concerning is if the machine can use this new quadros.
Thanks again. Cheers.

arvmetal,

"Explicative" is the polite word- thanks!

Yes, the new series Quadros use the same slot and actually quite bit less power. My older 1.5GB Qudro FX 4800 uses 152W, the next generation 2GB Quadro 4000 uses 142W, and the new 4GB Quadro K2200 I ordered yesterday uses only 68W and therefore does not need an extra power connection as the slot provides up to 75W. I'm looking forward to the K2200 as it has some aspects of performance quite a bit better than a Quadro K4000.

My only reservation about the z800 is the 2.66 / 3.06 GHZ speed - but there is the very positive feature of having 12 cores / 24 threads. Also, that it has the 1333 speed RAM memory- the z800 could have 800, 1066, or 1333.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

MY motto: "Never use one word when twenty will do just as well."

thx for ur input. i don't live in US (i reside in china), so i don't have much access to ebay. i checked with taobao (similar to ebay in china), seems that t3500 with w3690 installed is like non existence. they have w3565, which i think its a lower tier cpu?!.
i am looking for a pc with lots of ram due to number of applications i work with runs java and adobe player. firefox alone can take up 1gb+ of ram at times when too many tabs are opened. i do occasion gaming but not a hardcore gamer. thats why an older workstation with lots of rams (i am thinking 12gb is sufficient with x5650?!) and mediocre video card seems to fit my needs.

paul wu,

The X5650 is a very high quality processor having 6-cores @ 2.66 / 3.06Ghz and when new cost almost $1,000 in the US. However, if you are not using multi-threaded applications- rendering is the most common program that may use all the available cores / threads- perhaps you can find a 4-core in the X5600-series having a higher clock speed:

4-core X5600 series:

X5667 > 3.06 / 3.46GHz
X5672 > 3.2 / 3.6
X5677 > 3.46 / 3.73
X5687 > 3.6 / 3.86

All may use DDR3-1333 ECC.

You may like to see a useful list all the X5600 CPU's 4- and 6-core:

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/47915/Intel-Xeon-Processor-5600-Series#@All

The W3690 is not actually a lesser series than X5600, but only made for use in a single CPU system, whereas the X5600 may be used in a dual-CPU system. This is similar to today where the Xeon E5-1600 is for a single CPU system and E5-2600 is for dual processors.

There are good 4-core W3000-series both 4 and 6-core and you might like to consider the higher speed ones if they are available:

http://ark.intel.com/products/family/28330/Intel-Xeon-Processor-3000-Sequence#@All

Notice the W3580 which is four cores @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz. On ebay US, these sell for only $70-90. $1,100 new ! Or how about a whole system:

DELL PRECISION T3500 XEON W3580 3.6GHz 3GB 250GB VISTA RADEON HD 5450 1GB DDR3 > sold for $136. (28 May 2015)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-PRECISION-T3500-XEON-W3580-3-6GHz-3GB-250GB-VISTA-RADEON-HD-5450-1GB-DDR3-/171790802587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ff879e9b&nma=true&si=O51XfPJ4Sc%252BcmpqxkesmXvq2e6o%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The 2.66 / 3.06Ghz speed is entirely useful- I have three computers with two and four core 2.66GHz only (no turbo speed) processors (E6700, Q6600, and Xeon X3230) and with modern graphics cards I have no complaints. These processors will be better for gaming by virtue of the clock speed. By the way, when adding RAM, remember that the X58 chipset is triple channel and so add RAM modules in sets of three for best results. When buying, match the specification to the existing modules- the memory may be registered ECC. My Precision T5500 us using registered.

If you can find a GTX 650ti or, new a 75-Ti 2GB, the performance in all the uses mentioned should be quite good. The Dell Precision TX500 series are beautifully made and extremely reliable.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

thx for ur detailed reply. after a day of searching, seems that my best choice is to buy a barebone dell precision serious and get my cpu, ram, harddrive, and video card elsewhere. barebone t3500 will cost about usd150 and i have my eye on xeon w3690 which is another USD40.
if i do it this way, am i able to pair the system with non-ecc rams? also what stuff should i pay extra attention to? also is there another alternative to dell t3500 that is worth look at? possibility with a motherboard that can support more ram since t3500 can only support up to 24g or with pci-e 3rd gen or sataIII.. thx

paul wu,

I think that you have a very good plan as the combination of a Dell Precision T3500 and Xeon W3690 3.47 /3.73GHz processor performs very well.

It is very useful to download and review the User Manual:

http://downloads.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dell_precision_workstation/precision-t3500_Service%20Manual_en-us.pdf

> and you may see on Page 5 that the T3500 may use a maximum of 24GB of DDR3 with speeds of 1066 or 1333MHz and ECC or non-ECC. Depending on your use, for example rendering, financial analysis, or scientific, you may benefit from ECC memory.

As you mention needing more than 24GB RAM, you may consider the Dell Precision T5500 or T7500. These are in the same series as theT3500 using the same memory and processors, except that the T5500 and T7500 have larger power supplies- 875W and 1100W compared to 525W of the T3500 and most importantly may use Xeon X5500 and X5600 processors and the T5500 may use 48GB (single CPU) and 72GB of RAM (dual CPU) and the T7500 may use 192GB (dual CPU). To have the two CPU's the system must have a riser board with memory slots (3), CPU heatsink, and fan system to mount the 2nd CPU and the additional memory. In the US, these 2nd CPU board /heatsink /fan systems cost from $100 to quite a lot of money. The T7500 system is less expensive than for theT5500 as more people purchased T7500's with two processors.

I have a T5500 that I purchased for $171 complete and running but with a lower speed four core CPU:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Original): Xeon E5620 quad core @ 2.4 / 2.6 GHz > 6GB DDR3 ECC Reg 1333 > Quadro FX 580 (512MB) > Dell PERC 6/i SAS /SATA controller > Seagate Cheetah 15K 146GB > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1479 / CPU = 4067 / 2D= 520 / 3D= 311 / Mem= 1473 / Disk= 1208]

I bought a Xeon X5680 for $200 (6-cores @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz) , 24GB of RAM ($120) and had a Quadro 4000 2GB GPU and Samsung 840 250GB SSD, so the system became:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011)(Revised) > Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 24GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro 4000 (2GB ) > Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Linksys WMP600N PCI WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3339 / CPU = 9347 / 2D= 684 / 3D= 2030 / Mem= 1871 / Disk= 2234]

> and the test scores are comparable to a current workstation. I am going to improve the disk system withe PERC H310 RAID controller (purchased for $60) that will make the 3Gb/s disk system into a 6GB/s and provide a hardware RAID for a pair of Western Digital Black 1TB drives. To add a second X5680 would cost a total of about $350 but this system has a completely adequate performance. I also intend to add a PCIe card with USB3.0 ports (about $30).

So, if you need more RAM, the T5500 and T7500 can use it plus you have many additional benefits from a T5500 or T7500 , including a second CPU, more memory, the T7500 has more spaces for drives, and larger power supplies. -Very useful systems with very good performance. The X5000 series Xeons were the best CPU's before Xeon E5. Given that an x5680 originally cost more than $1,600, these systems used are very good value. A system comparable to my $900 revised T5500- though it would have better performance in some aspects, will still cost more than $5,000.

I would be pleased to assist if I can and would enjoy knowing what you eventually purchase.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

ur help is be much appreciated. right now i am still researching my alternatives. i am new to the workstation and i am not a guru in the pc space either, but it would be interesting to put them together myself like my last 7 yr old pc.

after rereading this thread, i realized that multiple virtual machine is one of the main purpose of workstation (other than my need of a new pc) and it seems to be very interesting/useful to me. however, mind that i ask you some basic questions regarding to vm so that i can focus how i setup this workstation?
1) is it possible to setup a vm for 2 users that are stationed near each other (around within 3 meter squared space) with just 2 monitors, 2 mouse, 2 keyboard, 1 workstation (1 cpu, 1ssd, 1harddisk)

2) with 2 vm running at once, what kind of performance should i expect from both vm? 1st vm is for my wife who is mainly for media consumption and internet browsing and the other for myself that runs ram demanding programs (i use 3 programs for stock charting and streaming quotes, these programs are mainly run in java)

3) correct me if i'm wrong, each vm would need to run a new OS, assuming all vm would run win7, normally a pc with a moderate cpu with 4gb ram would run it well. with this assumption, can i just add them up? 2vm would best have 8gb in workstation, 3vm need 12gb? or can i assign resources to each vm?!

paul wu,

1) My limited understanding of VM systems is that you may run several VM's per workstation, but to share the VM's among multiple users, there must a system acting as server and then each node on the local network is a separate system that has been mapped so they can access the virtual drives that contain the VM.s. In summary, you need a separate system for each user networked to a system that acts as server. I believe that each VM should be allowed about 20GB on the drive, so it's seems possible that a single drive can contain quite a few and some users have configured 15 or so VM's.

2) In your use, I suggest that media consumption and internet browsing may have adequate performance on your current system- the 7-year old PC mentioned. If you're using that system to make these posts, it will work for that use. A system for financial analysis will be more useful if it may be specialized for the use - for example there need not be high performance in 3D, but it may benefit from a dual CPU for muli-threading,a lot of RAM, and/or a Tesla or Xeon PHi coprocessor, for example:

Dell Nvidia Tesla M2090 6GB GPU Computing Module > $155.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Nvidia-Tesla-M2090-6GB-GPU-Computing-Module-with-PowerEdge-C8220X-bracket-/271758372538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f460faeba

This cost $2,500 in 2012, but used ones are inexpensive as only certain kinds of uses- such as special multi-threaded, calculation- intensive applications can take advantage, and these are often scientific or financial. It would be wise in this process to consult the maker of the software as to the best hardware for it. With visualisation applications,like Autodesk and Adobe, there are published lists of recommended hardware and you can learn if the program is Open GL or CL ad whether it is CUDa accelerated and so on.

3) I'm not certain how memory id allocated to VM's except to image that each VM is acting as a seperate system, so the amount of system RAM would apply to each active VM. I only ever used a VM once and that was a virtual XP inside a Vista system- and it quite slow-loading and slow operating on a dual Xeon X5460 (8-cores @ 3.16GHz, 16GB RAM Precision T5400 and I gave up on the complication and bought Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit. Making these assumption, the server should then have at least 8GB for each active VM for the OS and programs.

My suggestion is to pause direct consideration of the hardware and study the way the programs work and in effect work backwards to choose hardware according to the optimization of the software, based on the scale of your use- size and complexity of projects, and your expected performance. Your use may be demanding in several ways- on one hand it may easily display stock quotations and exchange rates etc. but the analytics may be extremely calculation intensive and time-critical, demanding very fast CPU, a lot of RAM, and a very fast disk system that can access large databases quickly. It may be preferable to to separate your system and if you are running multiple platforms, optimize to the most demanding use and largest project.

Very good discussion !

Cheers,

BambiBoom

For your entertainment. Here is a system I worked out some time ago for flight dynamics analysis using Matlab and would probably work well in your use,so to demonstrate the high performance that analytics and simulattion programmes may demand:


BambiBoom PixelCannon Compucompilamathagrapharific iWork TurboSignature Extreme ModelBlast 9900_3.4.15

1. Motherboard / Case /PSU: Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7048A-T Dual LGA2011 1200W 4U Rackmount/Tower Workstation Barebone System > $980 (Includes case, motherboard, 1200W power supply)

____ http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4u/7048/sys-7048a-t.cfm

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=SY-748AT

2. Processors: (2X) Intel Xeon E5-2643 v3 Six-Core Haswell Processor @ 3.4 / 3.7GHz 9.6GT/s 20MB LGA 2011-v3 CPU, OEM > $3,040 ($1,520 ea)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=E5-2643V3

2ALT. (2X) Intel Xeon Processor E5-2660 v3 (10-core 25M Cache, 2.60 / 3.3 GHz) $2,718 ($1359 Each)

____ http://ark.intel.com/products/81706/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2660-v3-25M-Cache-2_60-GHz

3. Memory: 128GB (SAMSUNG (8X 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR4 2133 (PC4-17000) Server Memory Model M393A2G40DB0-CPB > $1,600 ($200 each) ( Verify compatibility with Supermicro)

____ http://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/mem.cfm

4. GPU: PNY Quadro K4200 VCQK4200-PB 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card > $789

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133558&cm_re=quadro_k4200-_-14-133-558-_-Product

5. Co-Processor: NVIDIA TESLA K20 (900-22081-2220-000) GK110 5GB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 3.52 Tflops Workstation Video Card - OEM > $2,900

_____ http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9B-14-132-008&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleBiz&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleBiz-_-2015Promo-_-ProductPages-_-DynamicAd&gclid=COSLlMzQtMUCFWgV7Aodq2wAEw

6. Drive1: Intel 750 Series SSDPEDMW400G401 AIC 400GB PCI-Express 3.0 MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - OEM> $405 (OS / Applications Working Files)

____ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167299&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Internal+SSDs-_-N82E16820167299&gclid=CPH9lZTTtMUCFeY77AodiWAAEA&gclsrc=ds

6 Drives 2,3,4,5: (4X) Seagate Constellation ES.3 ST4000NM0033 4TB 7200RPM SATA3/SATA 6.0 GB/s 128MB cache Enterprise Hard Drive (3.5 inch) > $1,000 ($250 each) (RAID 10)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-ST40NM3

7. Disk Controller: LSI MegaRAID SAS LSI9240-4I 4-Port 6Gb/s PCI-Express SATA/SAS Single RAID Controller, Retail > $180

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=LSI-92404S

8. Optical Drive: LG Electronics WH16NS40 16X SATA Blu-ray Internal Rewriter, Bulk > $60
____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=WH16NS40


9. Monitors: ( 3X ) Dell P2715Q Black 27" Fast mode: 6 ms gray-to-gray (typical) Normal mode: 8 ms gray-to-gray (typical) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD Monitor IPS 350 cd/m2 DC 2,000,000:1 (1000:1) $1,656 > ($552 each)

____ http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=Dell+P2715Q+&N=-1&isNodeId=1

10. Microsoft Windows 8.1 Ult Operating System 64-bit English (1 Pack), OEM > $135 (Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro when available)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MSFQC06950

_______________________________________________________
TOTAL = $12,745 w/ E5-2643 v3 / 12,423 w/ E5-2660 v3

NOTES:

1. The CPU choice may be made on the basis of the priority of analytics to visualization. I the visualization is principally 2D presentations of the analytics functions, then the dual 10-core Is recommended. It there is to be 3D modeling, and animation, then the faster dual 6-core is preferred.

2. Suggested disk configuration: partition the Intel 750 to an C:\ primary /active OS partition and D: Partition applications partition so that system files are isolated and consolidated. Create the C: and D: drives on temporary partitions (slightly smaller than the eventual size on the Intel 750) set on one of the mech’l drives. Ensure proper section alignment of the partitions. Load the OS and programs and defragment and consolidate between each action. When complete, run a disk optimizer on the C:\ an D\: that places system files in order of use- that is boot files, then system files and so on. Then run and configure the system with multiple restarts until all updates are downloaded and then clean the disk and optimize again. Then migrate the partitions to the Intel 750. This method saves wear on the SSD of the many defragmentation and optimizization read /writes - (this coul) total 1TB). After the C\ and D:\ are setup and still pristine, make a system image that may be used to quickly restore the system in the event of disk failure, virus etc., ot to renew the disk to clear of registry and other errors.

3. OS: My understanding is that Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users will have a free or inexpensive upgrade to Windows 10 an from I understand of 8.1, my inclination would be to replace it with 10 when there has been a couple of months of sorting and debuggery.

3. Power Conditioning: To protect this syatem,, I recommend using an isolation transformer power conditioner such as OneAC or Powervar of at least 11A output. These make a clean sine wave, and have noise, RF filter, and surge protection. They’re used commonly with hospital and industrial control computer systems.

for some reason my account was banned from posting. anyways i have looked into a software called softxpand, it seems to be the thing i am looking for. however, is it possible to setup 2 ip address in one pc? i need 1 ip to go through vpn and the other not going through vpn. if i have the problem solve, i think i would choose a t7500(~USD250), x5680 (~USD150), 24gb(~usd180), and gtx760

paul wu,

I had a look at SoftXpand which does exactly as you requested. It creates a local network to have two or more users to one system and this is a very useful thing to know. In the past I have only done the converse- one user to two computers. I use a KVM so that one keyboard, mouse, and monitor could switch between two computers .

To have multiple IP's on one system is done by adding additional addresses in the TCP /IP address list:

http://www.loadtestingtool.com/help/how-setup-ip.shtml

The T7500 > X5680 > 24GB > GTX 760 I think is a very good idea. I would recommend also that you consider a PERC H310 RAID controller to have a 6GB/s disk system and have a good SSD at least for Windows and the programs.

If you are buying a T7500 and upgrading, you might consider one that has two CPU's, so as to have the 2nd CPU riser:

Dell Precision T7500 2nd CPU Riser H236F Heatsink, Fan and Shroud M1384

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2nd-CPU-Riser-H236F-Heatsink-Fan-and-Shroud-M1384-/181638728288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4a830a60&nma=true&si=yssLz%252FmRLYxrprWdy5O7LLEIvqw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

This will allow you in future to add a second CPU if needed.

I see a "You are banned!" every few days also. This has been quite frustrating as a couple of times I have signed in, wrote a reply that returned a "banned" message when submitted and all the work is lost.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

i am double checking with t5500 and t7500. from the info that i found, both systems are very similar, the main difference is t7500 is bigger than t5500 and some additional ports. in both of the spec sheets, t5500 said to be able to upgrade of a max 72gb ram, while t7500 can have up to 192gb due to additional controllers. so the question is can i install those controllers to t5500 if i make room for them? or there is something else that limits t5500 to install those controllers that allows it to expand its memory to 192gb?

by the way, how loud is the entire system when it is on?

paul wu,

Yes, the T5500 and T7500 are quite similar, excepting the items you mention. The maximum memory of 72GB and 192GB is only possible if the 2nd CPU riser is installed and the T5500 may not have more than the 72GB total. the RAM is arranged in sets of three, so there are six slots on the motherboard and the riser has additional RAM slots. So, on a T5500 6 + 3 slots X 8GB = 72GB. The T7500 has 12 slots and I suppose must allow 16GB modules (12 slots X 16GB = 192GB. The T7500 also has more drive bays. The T5500 is really most convenient to have two drives- vertically on a kind of hinged plate, and the T7500 has 4 drive bays resembling horizontal shelves. Also the T7500 has an extra 5.25 inch bay on the front panel and an adapter may be purchased to allow the mounting of two more drives. The T5500 has one extra 5.25 inch bay. The other difference that I know is that the T5500 has an 875 Watt power supply and the T7500 is 1100W.

The choice depends on how much performance you require. If you will have a complex RAID - such as RAID 50 or 60 with 5 or 8 drives on a RAID controller card, the T7500 is preferable. If you are going to run intensive analytics on extremely large databases, you may need more RAM- and so on. Overall, a T7500 will allow more expansion. I have a T5500 as this was intended as an inexpensive second system that still has performance not too far different from the main system. the HP Z420 is fast enough with renderings that I don't need a dual CPU system. I have used the T5500 so little that I may use my 2007 Precision 390 instead.

The Precision 390 was a gift from an office that was closing :

Precision 390 (2007) (Original): Core2 Duo 6300 dual-core @ 1.86GHz, 2GB DDR2 667 > Quadro FX550 > 2X WD 320GB . Windows XP Pro 32-bit
[ Passmark system rating =397, CPU = 587 / 2D= 248 / 3D=75 / Mem=585 / Disk = 552 ]

> and I spent about $120 to change the CPU from a Core2 duo 6300 two core @1.86GHz, add 4GB of RAM, and a used Firepro V4900:

Dell Precision 390 (2007) (Revised): Xeon X3230 quad-core @ 2.67GHz > 8 GB DDR2 ECC 667 > Firepro V4900 (1GB) > 2X WD 320GB >Linksys WMP600N WiFi > Dell 24" > 1920 X 1200 > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1458, CPU = 3699 / 2D= 431 / 3D=1350 / Mem= 885 / Disk=552]

> And I think this demonstrates that these obsolete systems may be greatly improved with careful choices.

Overall, for your intended uses, I think the T7500 is preferable. You may consider also to search for a PERC H310 RAID controller so that the disk system will be 6GB/s and it may be expanded to be useful quite a long time.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

sorry, seems that i have misread the specs of t7500. it requires linux to enable a max of 192gb and they can not run at 1333mhz. anyways it seems that the difference is the riser in its second cpu which it has an expansion of 6 dimm slots. thats 3 more than t5500 riser. since both systems are very similar, is it possible to use t7500 riser on a t5500 system? my guess is that the case in t5500 is smaller so it may not fit the larger riser for t7500. so if i have an open case, this shouldn't be a problem to install a larger riser?!

after searching more into taobao, i found that x5675 seems to have the most bang for the buck?! it seems to be a newer cpu with relatively high clock speed and lower power consumption. what do u think? what kind of coolers should i use? personally i don't really want to overclock a cpu (nor have i done so).. seems that the cost for a overclocking outweighs the performance it produces. since i have not done so, this is all in my imagination.. lol

right now i can't imagine myself having alot of physical hard drives, (plan to have 1 dvd, 1 ssd, 1 or 2 hard disk max).

so other than dell, are there other brand of workstations out there that i can scrape that have similar specs?

also is the t7500/t5500 noisy when it is turned on?

paul wu,

1. T5500 and T7500 riser: I have put photos side by side of these two units. It appears to me that the T7500 riser as compared to T5500 has the fan set at a higher level and has a squared shroud (cover) whereas the T5500 has a rounded. Also, the T7500 has a deeper board to accommodate the extra three RAM slots. The T7500 has an extra 5.25" drive bay that makes the case taller and I believe that the T7500 riser is too tall to fit the T5500 case.

2. Xeon X5675: Yes, the X5675 is an excellent design that superseded the X5670, changing the clock speed from 2.93 / 3.33 to 3.06/ 3.46GHz. Power use remained the same at 95W. On Passmark, the X5675 scores an average of 8628 and is rated No. 135 and the X5670 scores an average of 8182 and is rated No. 150. To put this into perspective, the Xeon E5-2643 (4-core @ 3.3/ 3.5) scores 8474 and is No. 140.

3. Hard Drives: I am intrigued by the performance and data protection potential of hardware RAIDs, and have bought controller cards for my two main systems and additional drives to have a RAID 1 in each system. However, as I look at the complex setup- the cards have their own BIOS and drivers that have to initiate and start the system, I question whether I will have a worthwhile benefit. For several years I have had an SSD for the OS and programs and a single mech'l drive for the files. With this I use a USB Aluminum enclosure, ventilated and with a switchable cooling fan (StarTech), containing a 3.5" 500GB Western Digital Blue. I only run this drive when backing up, which means the hours on the drive stay very low-- I have a 160GB Seagate drive that is eight years old and runs perfectly. A few months ago I bought an Intel 730 480GB and have a partition on it so I will have my files in that partition, and backup to the WD Black 1TB AND the WD Blue external. This is simple and I have plenty of storage- all the files I've ever made- about 60,000 since 1993, fit in about 60GB. As I already have the HP 9212-4i HBA RAID adapter and the two Constellation ES.3 1TB drives (these are enterprise drives with 128MB cache instead of 64MB) I may go ahead for educational purposes and see what happens.

4. Other workstations to consider: If your budget would extend to it, I think the best cost /performance and more future-looking workstations to consider are the Dell Precision T5610 and T7610:

DELL PRECISION T7610 Win8.1 Pro with label, 1300w Power supply 2x Heat Sink > sold for $500

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-PRECISION-T7610-Win8-1-Pro-with-label-1300w-Power-supply-2x-Heat-Sink-/201355146049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee1b3b341&nma=true&si=GcrGbPRLSFAucpJ2g0YFE1Rck%252BM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Dell Precision T5610 Bare Bones, 32GB ram, 500GB HDD, Quadro 600, Win 7 Pro COA > sold for $600

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T5610-Bare-Bones-32GB-ram-500GB-HDD-Quadro-600-Win-7-Pro-COA-/331540628838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d315c8566&nma=true&si=GcrGbPRLSFAucpJ2g0YFE1Rck%252BM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

These systems use Xeon E5-2600 v2 series with ECC 1866 RAM. The E5-v2's have become v3 with several significant advantages,and the v2's model for model have fewer cores, but also higher clock speeds than v3 and the CPU's may be purchased depreciated. The list of E5-2600 v2:

http://ark.intel.com/products/series/75291/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2600-v2-Product-Family?q=e5-2600%20v2#@All

> and depending on how many cores you need, there are some really good cost /performance choices:

Intel Xeon E5-2637 v2 3.5 / 3.8 GHz/15/8GTs SR1B7 Quad Core CPU M159 > sold for $500.

http://ark.intel.com/products/75792/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2637-v2-15M-Cache-3_50-GHz

So, you buy two of these to have 8 cores @3.5 / 3.8 and put them into the T5610 with 32GB of Ram and a Quadro K600 , fast disk system, providing for $1,600 a system that new would cost 4X as much when new.

The E5-2643 v2 6-core 2 3.5 / 3.8 is a favourite of mine, but must also be a favourite of a lot of people as they are quite expensive used, $1200-$1500

There are also a lot of HP z-series Z620 and z820 systems:

HP z620 Workstation Tower, HP Z620 800W 90 Efficient Chassis, Win 7 Pro 32 Bit, Intel Xeon E5-2609 2.4 10M 1066 4C, 250GB HDD 7200 RPM, 4GB DDR3-1600, NVIDIA Quadro 600 1GB GFX, DVD RW, USB KB and Mouse > Sold for $503

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z620-Workstation-/161716762628?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a711f804&nma=true&si=GcrGbPRLSFAucpJ2g0YFE1Rck%252BM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The prices in the UK and US seem to be a bit higher for the more recent HP z-series than Precisions, but having owned both 2 HP z-series, and 3 Precisions, in my view, Precisions are better constructed, and Dell support is better than HP. But as to noise:

5. System noise: At the moment I have Precision 390, T5400 and T5500 and 2-HP z420's. I keep the T5500 and Z420 no 2. (E5-1660 v2) systems under a table /desk and the Precisions are not noisy at all, but the HP z-series - perhaps being a newer design, are much quieter- almost silent. Really though I do not notice the noise of the Precision, and only note it at all in relation to the silent z420. The Precision does make moe noise starting then the z420, but either will have a brief fan roar if restarting while still hot.

Cheers,

BamibBoom

Hi BamibBoom, after weeks of searching, i have a primitive list of parts i can get from different sellers i have access to, pls comment on my setup if you have time. thx

-dell t7500 including cpu fan
-xeon x5675
-kingston 24gb 1333 ddr3
-asus gtx 760 2gb
-kingston sata3 128g ssd
all of the about i could get it for around ~USD670.
since i am getting all these from different suppliers, i will need to install them all by myself which i haven't done for many years. anways i know i should get a raid card for the ssd, but i have yet to locate one. from my understanding it would still run with the motherboard but at sata2 rate right?
since i don't really store stuff, i plan to install my old sata hd to it which i think it would be sufficient.

paul wu,

You are a wise shopper- that is a very good specification for the cost. The Xeon X5675 is an excellent CPU and one that is not as often seen as X5670 and X5680. This (I believe) was the 3.06GHz successor to the Xeon X5670 6-core @ 2.93GHz and the X5675 has a completely useful 3.46Ghz turbo speed. As most programs- except rendering- are single threaded anyway, the first two cores will run at 3.46GHz.

RAM: Be quite careful about the RAM that you buy, that it is compatible. When I bought RMA for the T5500, I bought used RAM of the same maker and model number as the original RAM and this was ECC registered- more typically used in servers. Also, plan ahead as to the total amount you may like to have. If you add a second CPU in the future, you may like to have 48 or 96 or more GB (always add in multiples of three modules for the X58 chipset). So, if you think you may have a lot of RAM in the future, buy only larger size modules- 4 minimum and better, 8GB so they don't have to be replaced when the slots are all filled.

I have RAM on the brain as I just yesterday bought 16GB (4X 4GB) (DDR3 1866 ECC) for an HP z420. I bought the exact HP part number single rank (1Rx8) Samsung RAM in the system already. I've looked a lot at Passmark results and often I see identical systems with more RAM having lower memory scores and I believe- an intuition, not a known fact- that when a system with 8GB has a high memory score than one with 24GB there is some disadvantage with mismatched RAM timing, mixing single and dual rank and so on. I had to buy memory for a Dell Precision 390 three times to have modules that worked properly (DDR2 667 ECC) As I don't know what is really happening at that level, I always buy exactly the same memory that the system had in it.

RAID Card: If you add the correct PERC or LSI PCIe card to your T7500, you will have in effect an SATA III system plus th ability to use fast- 10,000RPM SAS drives. The T7500's with the highest disk scores on Passmark:

1. Intel RS2BL080 and scores 11656.
2. LSI MR9260-8i = 10266
3. Intel RS2BL020 = 10144
4. LSI MR9266-4i = 9058
5. Dell PERC H700 = 7869
9. Dell PERC 6/i = 3879
13. Dell PERC H310 2868

I'm intrigued by the Intel RS2BL080 (new $530 US), of which I'd never heard, as that is an amazingly good performance from a system that is 4 generations obsolete. That has to be a RAID with RAID 0 +1 See:

http://ark.intel.com/products/42874/Intel-RAID-Controller-RS2BL080

The good news is that used they have sold for as little as $80- $120. I have a PERC H310 for the T5500(cost $60) but I might switch to the Intel RS2BL080 if they're actually magic! The LSI 9260 results are also impressive. The sleeper in that list is the PERC 6/i. My T5500 arrived with a 6/i plus 146GB and 300GB 15,000RPM Seagate SAS drives. The 6/i very inexpensive, I bought another one for $13 shipping included and thought to put the T5500 one plus drives in the Dell Precision 390, and I bought a second NOS 300GB 15K drive for $32. I have a Dell Poweredge server with a 6/i also, running 2X 73GB and 3X 76GB 15K SAS drives. Note, there is a low profile on for desktops and a high profile- big heatsink version for servers. With any of these, Dell is excellent in providing the updated BIOS, firmware and drivers. I think they may have an installation manual as well.

These RAID controllers are a bit complicated to configure properly as they run their own BIOS and driver since they must initiate to start the system. Having never done this task, I'm going to be very methodical and patient.The results are apparently so good I think it's a good technology about which to learn.

O.K. Well I think you have a very good direction and I would be pleased to know how you progress. You might consider getting the free trial of Passmark Performance Test and test the system at each important change to see the effect,

Cheers,

BambiBoom