Looking to upgrade an old PC

Noamski · Apr 11, 2014

Hey guys, I'm interested in upgrading my old graphic card and RAM, while sticking to my current Motherboard, CPU and PCU.

My current specs are:

Motherboard: Asus P5KC (PCi 2.0)
CPU: Intel Core2 Quad Q9300 @ 2.5GHz
PSU: 550W
Graphic Card: GTS 450
RAM: 4GB

I'm aiming to run Wildstar on 40 to 60 FPS on 1080p Mid-High settings. I'm considering to get a GTX 570 (a new one will cost me around 200$ in my country) and adding 4 more GB of RAM. My concern for getting a newer GPU (such as the 670 which I can get for a 50 bucks more) than the 570 is that my Motherboard and CPU will bottleneck it severely.

Cut to the chase, which GPU should I be looking for (around the 350$ budget)? Or should I just pick up the 570 considering my PCi 2.0 motherboard and older CPU?

Thanks!

DanielExtreme · Apr 11, 2014

In my perspective you should buy a new motherboard to get the PCi 3.0. It allows you to get a better performance out from the gpu.
If you pick a motherboard with the same socket you can still use your current cpu.
Using RAM from different companies is dangerous for your equipment, soo you should buy some new Ram like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9-Vengeance-Performance-Desktop/dp/B004CRSM4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395346240&sr=8-1&keywords=Corsair+Vengeance+8+G.
But you need to check if your CPU is compatible with them, and you should not need more than 6 Gb of Ram.
And for GPU you could chose GTX 750 like this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-1020MHz-1085MHz-5400MHz-Graphics/dp/B00IGQ4ZHY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1395346153&sr=8-3&keywords=gtx+nvidia+750+ti+evga

Noamski · Apr 11, 2014

DanielExtreme :

Thanks for the answer (and the warning about the RAM)! The problem is that I cannot find a PCi 3.0 motherboard with a LGA775 socket.

DanielExtreme · Apr 11, 2014

You could find something good in here:
CPU- http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Processor-AD760kWOHLBOX-Technology-Virtualization/dp/B00D7BYMB2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395346023&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=AMD+Athlon+X4+750K+Trinity+3.4GHz+Socket+FM2+100W+Quad-Core+Desktop+Processor
GPU- http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-1020MHz-1085MHz-5400MHz-Graphics/dp/B00IGQ4ZHY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1395346153&sr=8-3&keywords=gtx+nvidia+750+ti+evga
RAM- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9-Vengeance-Performance-Desktop/dp/B004CRSM4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395346240&sr=8-1&keywords=Corsair+Vengeance+8+GB
MotherBoard- http://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-FM2-A75MA-E35-Micro-Motherboard-Socket/dp/B009LT8K26/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395346089&sr=8-1&keywords=MSI+FM2-A75MA-E35+FM2+AMD+A75
(Budget build with pcie 2.0 powerfull CPU and good GPU)

cdrkf · Apr 11, 2014

Testing has shown that using a graphics card in a PCIe 2 slot and a PCIe 3 slot makes almost NO difference. Your cpu and motherboard should be fine.

Personally I'd get the newest card you can- if you want something efficient the GTX 750ti is a very nice card for 1080p gaming. However you're PSU should be ok for most mid range cards- something like a Radeon R7 260X or R9 270 would give you more bang for your buck.

It's a good idea to try and get matched memory modules as unless the timing is perfect between then they will usually default to single channel mode. However as long as the memory technology is the same (e.g. voltage and speed) then you won't damage your system. Single channel memory won't make a huge impact on performance given that you're using a discreet GPU. If you can find a matching module however that is preferable.

DanielExtreme · Apr 11, 2014

Look at this beast for around 350$ http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-GeForce-Superclocked-Graphics-2560x1600/dp/B00CYIQ00K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397221488&sr=8-1&keywords=gtx+nvidia+780

Noamski · Apr 11, 2014

cdrkf :

Awesome! The R9 270 looks great and fits my budget well. Can I be sure that it will fit on an Asus P5KC (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5KC/), and that my Q9300 CPU (http://ark.intel.com/products/33922/intel-core2-quad-processor-q9300-6m-cache-2_50-ghz-1333-mhz-fsb) won't bottleneck it too badly so the upgrade won't be effective?

Thanks for the both of you guys.

cdrkf · Apr 11, 2014

Noamski :

I think your core 2 quad should be fine. Looking at that motherboard it's one of these crossover boards that supports both DDR 2 and DDR 3 memory- don't attempt to use both at the same time!

With a board like that you can only use one or the other and according to the specs it supports either 4gb DDR 3 over 2 dimm slots (max) or 8gb of DDR 2 memory over 4 dim slots (so 4 x 2gb modules).

You'll need to double check what's currently in there- however it's probably 2 x 2gb ddr 2, in which case you need to add another 2 x 2gb ddr 2 modules (make sure you seat them in the DDR2 slots).

Noamski · Apr 11, 2014

cdrkf :

Noamski :

I think your core 2 quad should be fine. Looking at that motherboard it's one of these crossover boards that supports both DDR 2 and DDR 3 memory- don't attempt to use both at the same time!

With a board like that you can only use one or the other and according to the specs it supports either 4gb DDR 3 over 2 dimm slots (max) or 8gb of DDR 2 memory over 4 dim slots (so 4 x 2gb modules).

You'll need to double check what's currently in there- however it's probably 2 x 2gb ddr 2, in which case you need to add another 2 x 2gb ddr 2 modules (make sure you seat them in the DDR2 slots).

Checked my RAM: http://oi58.tinypic.com/2zf8jyb.jpg. So I'll be able to add a pair of these to my present sticks, right?

By the way, is Sapphire the most recommended brand for the R9 270?

Thanks again.

cdrkf · Apr 11, 2014

Noamski :

cdrkf :

Checked my RAM: http://oi58.tinypic.com/2zf8jyb.jpg. So I'll be able to add a pair of these to my present sticks, right?

By the way, is Sapphire the most recommended brand for the R9 270?

Thanks again.

Ok so you need to get 2 x 2gb DDR 2 800 sticks to match what you've already got. As for brand for the 270, Sapphire is good, however I've had cards from lots of different manufacturers and they should all work. The things to look out for are: Good warranty, price and have a look at reviews (often the main difference between similar cards is the cooler- try and get a card with a nice quiet cooler as otherwise they can howl under load).

Noamski · Apr 11, 2014

cdrkf :

Noamski :

Ok so you need to get 2 x 2gb DDR 2 800 sticks to match what you've already got. As for brand for the 270, Sapphire is good, however I've had cards from lots of different manufacturers and they should all work. The things to look out for are: Good warranty, price and have a look at reviews (often the main difference between similar cards is the cooler- try and get a card with a nice quiet cooler as otherwise they can howl under load).

Thanks! I'll pick up those: http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-ValueRAM-PC2-6400-KVR800D2N6K2-4G/dp/B0012Y0QV6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397230533&sr=8-1&keywords=Kingston+PC2-6400

One last thing, should I consider getting a R9 270X (will cost me 25$ more) or a GTX 760 instead the 270 if I'm wi willing to pay the price? Or will it push my SPU / CPU too far?

cdrkf · Apr 11, 2014

The 270 and 270x are basically the same card (the x is clocked higher)

The gtx 760 is a little faster than both but but much in it. If you want noticeably faster than the 270 you need to be looking at a 280 our a gtx 770.

As for the psu it depends on the specifics- a good 550w unit should handle any of those cards. The key is it needs a single high current 12v rail (ie 1 x 40a 12v rail, rather than 2 x 20a 12v rails which is what cheaper units use).

DanielExtreme · Apr 12, 2014

I have one Gtx 760 from evga superclocked and I love it. With it I can max out almost any game right now in the market.

Noamski · Apr 12, 2014

DanielExtreme :

Tbh, looking at the benchmarks below took the wind out of my sails. Considering these, I don't think that I'll be able to run Wildstar and newer MMO's / online games well on an R9 270 / GTX 760 with my Q9300 creating such a massive bottleneck. I'll test my brother's GTX 570 on my rig, and if I'll be satisfied with it's performance I'll stick to the original plan and buy a 750 Ti / R9 270. If not, I'll consider building a new rig with an i5 4670K and a GTX 770 / R9 280X.

Thanks a bunch guys!

cdrkf · Apr 12, 2014

Skyrim is very poorly threaded which is why the new Intel cpus are so much faster. It's all down to per thread perf.

Newer games are getting much better threaded so your c2quad might perform better than you think.

Also that above chart shows me that it's playable at 1080p on an old dual core. Remember you don't need crazy high fps for mmo games. Min 50 fps will be fine.

Noamski · Apr 12, 2014

cdrkf :

Thanks, I can see that after digging more in the article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ivy-bridge-wolfdale-yorkfield-comparison,3487.html). It shows really interesting results in games such as Tomb Raider. The thing that makes me so cautious is the fact that people keep saying that MMO's are in particular more CPU intensive.

cdrkf · Apr 13, 2014

Noamski :

They can be- although I think allot of that tends to be down to the fact that they are often long running games- built up over time on old engines (e.g. WOW has been running for years so its architecture is ancient in gaming terms).

The thing to think though- a friend of mine is a big MMO fan and happily plays SWO on a rig I built years ago for him around an ancient Geforce 9600GT (a good card in its day but this is 2014...). He can still play the game fine (I think his cpu is an AMD Phenom II x4 from memory- so similar perf to your system).

The key is that MMO type games don't need high fps to play- if you're a battlefield fan you need 60+ fps for super quick reactions if you want to play at a competitive level. In an MMO so long as the game is relatively smooth (ideally holding 30 fps as a minimum) it isn't going to cause you problems and the areas where you really *need* the fps is in combat where you're usually in an enclosed space with a small group of players.

If it were me- I'd get a good graphics card (best you can reasonably afford) and have a go with it. I honestly think that at the moment you'll be ok. What you then do is say in a couple of years time (if you're having problems) get a new motherboard, CPU and ram and hopefully keep the graphics card if it's good enough (that's how I tend to do my upgrades- it spreads the cost out a bit).

Noamski · Apr 19, 2014

cdrkf :

Noamski :

They can be- although I think allot of that tends to be down to the fact that they are often long running games- built up over time on old engines (e.g. WOW has been running for years so its architecture is ancient in gaming terms).

The thing to think though- a friend of mine is a big MMO fan and happily plays SWO on a rig I built years ago for him around an ancient Geforce 9600GT (a good card in its day but this is 2014...). He can still play the game fine (I think his cpu is an AMD Phenom II x4 from memory- so similar perf to your system).

The key is that MMO type games don't need high fps to play- if you're a battlefield fan you need 60+ fps for super quick reactions if you want to play at a competitive level. In an MMO so long as the game is relatively smooth (ideally holding 30 fps as a minimum) it isn't going to cause you problems and the areas where you really *need* the fps is in combat where you're usually in an enclosed space with a small group of players.

If it were me- I'd get a good graphics card (best you can reasonably afford) and have a go with it. I honestly think that at the moment you'll be ok. What you then do is say in a couple of years time (if you're having problems) get a new motherboard, CPU and ram and hopefully keep the graphics card if it's good enough (that's how I tend to do my upgrades- it spreads the cost out a bit).

Got the R9 270. While using it, my rig runs Wildstar on 15-40 FPS (getting an average of 22 FPS) on 1080p mid / ultra low settings (the FPS doesn't really change when I switch between these), I don't think that I'll be able to do PVP or run group content.

They have not fully optimize the game yet, so I'll wait for launch to see if I'll have to get a new PC. Though my brother runs it on an average of 35 FPS on 1440p ultra high using 16GB RAM, a 3 year old quad i5 and a gtx 570.

BTW, my GPU load is peaking at 30% and my CPU usage at 50%, RAM at 2.3GB out of 4GB when I try to run the game on Ultra High.

And thanks again!

cdrkf · Apr 22, 2014

Noamski :

That's a nice graphics card. From the sounds of it it's only using 2 cores of you're CPU (hence the 50% usage) and evidently not really taxing the graphics card. This is common for an in-development game. I've been following Planetary Annihilation since the kickstarter campaign- the performance increase on my system from Alpha is huge (early on I was getting 5 - 10 fps on a GTX 560 with a Phenom II X3 cpu, now I get 60+ fps on the same machine).

A modern i5 will compensate better for the game being badly optimised as it has about the highest per core performance available. Note your brothers using an Nvidia card- often AMD and Nvidia partner up with game developers to help them with their graphics engines, sounds like this could be an Nvidia supported game meaning Nvidia cards will get optimised first (note that PA is similar however AMD cards are working well now as well) I'd keep an eye on things for a bit- maybe read the development forums and such. I can't imagine a game being developed in 2014 will be shooting for using less than 4 cpu cores.

The other thing you could try before swapping out your C2Quad is a bit of over clocking... From memory those old quads over clocked like beasts- you'd probably be able to push the clock rate up well past 3ghz with some minor adjustments.

Here's an article about over clocking your cpu: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/intel_q9300/3.htm
They got it to 3.4 ghz! Also looking at asus website your motherboard has a good set of tools to do it.

You might want to look at getting a better cooler if you're going to push the clock rates, however that shouldn't cost you more than about £20.

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