Intermittent Packet Loss/Latency @Router (WiFi)

Isaac Conrique

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Apr 14, 2014
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4,510
I have spent close to two weeks trying to assess and resolve issues on the network at home. High latency and packet loss will be experienced intermittently. And I've discovered that the latency and packet loss actually originates at the WiFi level of the network.

I've discovered this by monitoring my connection to various servers with PingPlotter (a program that basically logs and graphs tracert data). Whenever the issues are experienced, they becomes visible at the first hop, at the wireless router. These issues become quite notable when gaming online (though not restricted to this), and are present on all devices connected to the network, though not always simultaneously.

A 2TB Apple Time Capsule is servicing our network. I've set it to run wireless on channel 11 (2.4GHz) and automatic (5Ghz), and all wireless clients are running at 802.11n. I've used a WiFi utility program called inSSIDer to check signals, interference, etc. No other network in the area interferes with our network, and signal strength runs at high strength across the house. Simply put, signal strength and interference do not seem to be likely causes of the issues at hand.

I really don't know enough about higher level wireless network concepts to figure out what's going on. All I know is that the signal appears strong, channel interference is next to non-existence, the router is fairly new, and runs strong normally. However, issues appear at times, most notable when gaming online. And based on the information I'm getting, these issues exist primarily on the WiFi level, as packet loss and latency first display themselves in the Client > Wireless Router level.

Don't know if it matters since the issues exist on the WiFi level, but my ISP is TimeWarner Cable (RoadRunner), and my modem is an Arris TM402G.

Additionally, total client count on the wireless network can range from 8-14 (though issues have existed most recently with only a client count of 8).

Here is an example of what I experience as recorded by PingPlotter (this occured while playing DotA2 with two clients on our network connected to the same server. *notice, eat.valve.net is the server that hosted the game.)

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*notice that this issue occurred during a game session, but the time surrounding the game session appears with no issue

I would be happy to provide more information if needed. I do hope somebody out there can offer ideas or clues as to what might be going on. Thank you for your time and help!

For convenience, I've listed details of possible importance below:
ISP: Time Warner Cable (RoadRunner)
Modem: Arris TM402G
Wireless Basestation: Apple 2TB Time Capsule
No other Access Points (DHCP server solely held by Time Capsule)
Wireless Channel: 11 (2.4GHz), Automatic (5GHz)
Radio Mode: Automatic (802.11a-n)
Wireless Security: WPA2 Personal
Client Standard: 802.11n
Client Count: 8-14 any given time
 
Solution
Wireless errors are caused by any number of things. It is almost a black art to figure this stuff out.

Its really hard to say how many clients can run at the same time. Games pretty much transmit at low rates of speed constantly. They can not tolerate much delay in the packets and tolerate loss even worse. Any other wireless data would have to try to squeeze itself between the game packets. I would try to run the game on a wireless channel all by itself. Maybe on the 5g range since those are also less susceptible to interference...of course they don't go as far in the house either. If the game runs ok by itself the it just does not work well with one or more of the other applications you are running. If it does not run well...
I would redo the test with a cable to confirm but it has to be the wireless causing this issue.

Since the data on your first hop shows 9% loss and the data on the last hop shows 9% loss it means there is no additional loss in the path. There really is no way to tell for sure if the packet going to the end machine got lost on the first hop or someplace else. You must just assume it was on the first hop since you are seeing exactly the same loss.

You get packet loss even with just the router and a single PC. They both at times transmit at the same movement and destroy each other. The more devices you have the more common this problem is..especially when the devices can not actually detect each other.

There really is no way to avoid this problem other than not using wireless. Most stuff has no issue with small data loss. Games though do not tolerate it at all and video hopes you won't notice a few pixels here and there.
 

Isaac Conrique

Reputable
Apr 14, 2014
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4,510


Thanks so much for taking the time to respond :) It can be rough when nobody responds, so I really appreciate your help, as well as the assistance found on this forum! :D

I suppose in some ways, because there aren't many other options for our network apart from wireless, I feel I need to make sure I know with certainty that there are no other options but to deal with it as is. So, to your understanding is this the only possible explanation? That is, considering my situation, is the only way to explain the packet loss and latency by determining that gaming just doesn't work well over WiFi?

And, is it common to experience packet loss like mentioned above while gaming over WiFi even when only two devices are in use? I say this because the data recorded above actually occurred while only 2 of 8 connected clients were in use.

If there are ANY other options or possibilities, I would love to run through those on my end. I've already invested many hours trying to revamp and optimize the network here, and rather than just leave it be, I would be willing to consider other options if any come to mind.

Lastly, I understand that Apple does not allow their devices to have settings like MTU and Fragmentation Threshold modified, but would something like that hold a decently formed possibility to improving the connection issues? I'm mostly curious as to whether or not such modifications of settings could actually help alleviate the issues you described. Please let me know if you can. And thanks again :)

- Isaac
 
Wireless errors are caused by any number of things. It is almost a black art to figure this stuff out.

Its really hard to say how many clients can run at the same time. Games pretty much transmit at low rates of speed constantly. They can not tolerate much delay in the packets and tolerate loss even worse. Any other wireless data would have to try to squeeze itself between the game packets. I would try to run the game on a wireless channel all by itself. Maybe on the 5g range since those are also less susceptible to interference...of course they don't go as far in the house either. If the game runs ok by itself the it just does not work well with one or more of the other applications you are running. If it does not run well with just a game then you have some unknown source of interference in the house.

There is almost nothing you can tune on wireless. All the packet retransmission and packet damage detection is done at a very low level..I am not even sure how much the chipset drivers do a lot of this is done in the hardware itself. I for example have been trying to find a counter that will tell how many times a packet is resent because of damage. You know it happens because the latency changes but it seems all this is hidden.

Unfortunately wireless will either work for a game program or it won't and it often it will work most the time and then randomly act up. Nobody has found a solution for this which is why you see everyone saying don't run games on wireless if you don't have to. The only other application that is intolerant of wireless as games is VoIP. Cisco has crazy recommendation like only running 3 active VoIP calls on an AP and a VoIP call uses much less data that a game.

You might be better off putting in another router/ap and use different channels just for the game. You want to be sure to force it to only use 20mhz channels since it does not need the speed and you can only have 1 router/ap that is using 40mhz channels because there is only 60mhz total on the 2.4g band.
 
Solution

Isaac Conrique

Reputable
Apr 14, 2014
3
0
4,510


Awesome, even though it isn't the "magical" answer my hoping would have liked to see, your answer definitely clarifies things and leaves me feeling like I'm no longer in the dark. I do personally hate things like this that become very difficult to define and sometimes impossible to understand. However, I am willing to accept that this may be the case, it's not the first time.

Thank you for your help and taking the time to assist me, I think I'll look into some of the things you recommended. It's worth a shot. As of now, I suppose this is as far as it can go. I thank you once again for your help, take care and have a nice day :)

- Isaac