7870 - mantle support, physx considerations.
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grandpa murphy
April 23, 2014 9:13:48 AM
Hey guys,
I'm in the market to upgrade my 5850, having just realized how awesome bf4 and thief COULD look if i had more horsepower.
With these two games in particular, having mantle support seems like it might be worthwhile, however i've also read that the gains are barely there for many people.
My questions are-
1. will the 7870 support mantle?
2. do you believe that the mantle standard will grow enough to make sticking with amd worthwhile?
3. Does anyone with experience with both ati and nvidia believe that hardware physx is a good reason to spend the extra cash on a nvidia board these days?
My budget for a card is $200. With these considerations, what would you recommend for me?
Much appreciate the feedback and advice.
I'm in the market to upgrade my 5850, having just realized how awesome bf4 and thief COULD look if i had more horsepower.
With these two games in particular, having mantle support seems like it might be worthwhile, however i've also read that the gains are barely there for many people.
My questions are-
1. will the 7870 support mantle?
2. do you believe that the mantle standard will grow enough to make sticking with amd worthwhile?
3. Does anyone with experience with both ati and nvidia believe that hardware physx is a good reason to spend the extra cash on a nvidia board these days?
My budget for a card is $200. With these considerations, what would you recommend for me?
Much appreciate the feedback and advice.
More about : 7870 mantle support physx considerations
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Reply to grandpa murphy
1. Yes. All GCN architecture supports Mantle.
2. It's already been adopted by several leading developers including DICE, Crytek, Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal, a part of the Square Enix Group, and Oxide Games--so it's not going away any time soon. That said, it has sparked an arms race with Microsoft and forced them to get off their asses and make DirectX12 which has A LOT of similarities with Mantle so either way you're going to have a low-level API.
3. PhysX was and still is a gimmick--a pretty gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless. Adoption of PhysX has fallen sharply over the years and now only 1 or 2 major games even support it (and it's for stuff like snow....SNOW.)
The 7870 is a fantastic card but If you have $200 to spend then look at getting a secondhand Radeon 7970 from eBay--like this one for $199.99 shipped http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADEON-XFX-HD-7970-Black-Editio...
You're not going to get anything faster for the price!
2. It's already been adopted by several leading developers including DICE, Crytek, Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal, a part of the Square Enix Group, and Oxide Games--so it's not going away any time soon. That said, it has sparked an arms race with Microsoft and forced them to get off their asses and make DirectX12 which has A LOT of similarities with Mantle so either way you're going to have a low-level API.
3. PhysX was and still is a gimmick--a pretty gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless. Adoption of PhysX has fallen sharply over the years and now only 1 or 2 major games even support it (and it's for stuff like snow....SNOW.)
The 7870 is a fantastic card but If you have $200 to spend then look at getting a secondhand Radeon 7970 from eBay--like this one for $199.99 shipped http://www.ebay.com/itm/RADEON-XFX-HD-7970-Black-Editio...
You're not going to get anything faster for the price!
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Related resources
- 7870 or R9270 (with Mantle support) - Forum
- What is the advantage of NVIDIA PhysX and Radeon Mantle - Forum
- What is mantle...does it support my system?? - Forum
- XFX R9 270 Core Ed. doesn't support mantle API? - Forum
- Is Physx really worth it? Or should I go for a AMD for Mantle? - Forum
1. yes. and mantle mostly only benefit when cpu is the bottleneck. if there is none then the gain is minimal.
2. too early to predict mantle future right now. at the very least they got some window to gain developer support until DX12 comes out bringing similar feature as mantle but will be compatible with all gpu available.
3. depends on the person but personally i don't take PhysX as a reason why people should get nvidia card or dealing with hybrid setup (AMD + nvidia gpu for dedicated PhysX).
for $200 go for 270X
2. too early to predict mantle future right now. at the very least they got some window to gain developer support until DX12 comes out bringing similar feature as mantle but will be compatible with all gpu available.
3. depends on the person but personally i don't take PhysX as a reason why people should get nvidia card or dealing with hybrid setup (AMD + nvidia gpu for dedicated PhysX).
for $200 go for 270X
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Reply to renz496
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Reply to s4in7
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While PhysX is a bit gimmicky, it is not losing steam. There are more in development every year than the previous year. Right now there are 29 GPU accelerated PhysX games with 9 in development. There are over 400 games with PhysX in a more general form that works on CPU's.
http://physxinfo.com/
Mantle's biggest improvements, right now at least, come from removing CPU bottlenecks. This means that it may be worth while if you have a slow CPU or like high FPS or a combination of the two.
If you try to play at near max settings and are ok with 60 or so FPS with a decent CPU, you may not find a lot of benefit from Mantle at this time. If you are like myself and some others, you may find that you like a 144hz monitor and want to game at 80+ FPS (the point I no longer get simulator sickness in 1st person, mouse driven games).
http://physxinfo.com/
Mantle's biggest improvements, right now at least, come from removing CPU bottlenecks. This means that it may be worth while if you have a slow CPU or like high FPS or a combination of the two.
If you try to play at near max settings and are ok with 60 or so FPS with a decent CPU, you may not find a lot of benefit from Mantle at this time. If you are like myself and some others, you may find that you like a 144hz monitor and want to game at 80+ FPS (the point I no longer get simulator sickness in 1st person, mouse driven games).
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Reply to bystander
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PhysX GPU games (incomplete): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardwar...
It's not "integral" or necessary, but it does make quite a few games look a little better. I could also ask why do we need better Shadows, or anti-aliasing, or Depth of Field, or Bloom as they aren't "integral" to the game either. The following games in particular I turned PhysX on and off and it made a fairly big difference:
a) Batman Arkham series (though City had stutter issues)
b) Alice Madness Returns
c) Metro LL
It's not "integral" or necessary, but it does make quite a few games look a little better. I could also ask why do we need better Shadows, or anti-aliasing, or Depth of Field, or Bloom as they aren't "integral" to the game either. The following games in particular I turned PhysX on and off and it made a fairly big difference:
a) Batman Arkham series (though City had stutter issues)
b) Alice Madness Returns
c) Metro LL
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Reply to photonboy
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s4in7 said:
What? Only Nvidia has been pushing that tech--and AMD has not even thought fit to counter it with their own tech. It's a bells and whistles gimmick! Show me one case where the inclusion of PhysX was integral to a game (meaning without PhysX you couldn't play it or wouldn't play correctly)Tress FX? although PhysX is more complete solution because Tress FX only dealing with hair though Tress FX 2.0 will add simulation for grass as well. as for gpu physics integration in game it has been said since the early days of gpu physics simulation that the effect might only affect 'eye candy' only and not the gameplay. it is possible for gpu physics to affect gameplay but the software (the physics engine) must be compatible with every gpu. say your thanks to intel for not letting something like that to happen
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Reply to renz496
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I have two 270Xs in crossfire and I love them--but for $200 get a used 7970 from eBay. It's MUCH faster than a 270X and had they been this cheap when I was building I'd have gone with the 7970.
I don't consider TressFX a competitor to PhysX mainly because it's only for hair and grass (long and stringy) simulation and not cloth, weather, rigid body, ragdoll, etc. that PhysX is.
Of those 29 games in development how many are AAA titles? Probably not very many.
TL;DR Go with the 7970 from eBay--you get GTX 680-level performance for considerably less (used 680s are $250 on eBay).
I don't consider TressFX a competitor to PhysX mainly because it's only for hair and grass (long and stringy) simulation and not cloth, weather, rigid body, ragdoll, etc. that PhysX is.
Of those 29 games in development how many are AAA titles? Probably not very many.
TL;DR Go with the 7970 from eBay--you get GTX 680-level performance for considerably less (used 680s are $250 on eBay).
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Reply to s4in7
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They are but that's no reason not to get one--mining doesn't degrade the card like you think.
Cards used for mining are in better condition than cards used for gaming. Miners don't overclock them and they're not running at 100% like when gaming.
Its perfectly safe and probably the smartest move you could make
Cards used for mining are in better condition than cards used for gaming. Miners don't overclock them and they're not running at 100% like when gaming.
Its perfectly safe and probably the smartest move you could make
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Reply to s4in7
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April 23, 2014 5:44:12 PM
DirectX 12 and the latest Nvidia performance driver have already spelled the doom of Mantle. There is no way that game developers will continue to code for two APIs when all they need to do is code for DirectX 12.
Since the PhysX question is so heavily dependent on personal bias, why don't you go to YouTube and check out some videos of PhysX ON vs OFF.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nvidia+phy...
Since the PhysX question is so heavily dependent on personal bias, why don't you go to YouTube and check out some videos of PhysX ON vs OFF.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nvidia+phy...
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s4in7 said:
They are but that's no reason not to get one--mining doesn't degrade the card like you think.Cards used for mining are in better condition than cards used for gaming. Miners don't overclock them and they're not running at 100% like when gaming.
Its perfectly safe and probably the smartest move you could make
isn't it the exact opposite? i don't know how much gpu utilization percentage on mining but the gpu will be fully loaded on 24/7 basis while people will only play games several hours per day. also to increase the hash rate some miners will OC the cards to the limit so they can get better mining efficiency. i have seen few tech site suggesting people to avoid getting card that used solely for mining.
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grandpa murphy
April 23, 2014 6:48:58 PM
Thanks to everyone who has posted so far - you all seem to know your stuff and i commend you for the feedback.
I've had a few hours to research at work and have just noticed that i can get a powercooler brand 7870 for $139 -- and i'm about to pull the trigger on that deal (seems too good to pass up).
The one remaining question i have is about power consumption between my current 5850, the 7870 and the new r9 270's - i'm afraid that if i get the new card, i'll need a better power supply. I have no idea what my current one is rated as, only that it's good for my Sapphire 5850 w/1gb ram. My rig has the stock PSU from a Dell XPS circa 2011.
Can anyone say with certainty that i'll be okay if i were to get this 7870 when it comes to power? Are the newer cards more or less hungry than the older?
I've had a few hours to research at work and have just noticed that i can get a powercooler brand 7870 for $139 -- and i'm about to pull the trigger on that deal (seems too good to pass up).
The one remaining question i have is about power consumption between my current 5850, the 7870 and the new r9 270's - i'm afraid that if i get the new card, i'll need a better power supply. I have no idea what my current one is rated as, only that it's good for my Sapphire 5850 w/1gb ram. My rig has the stock PSU from a Dell XPS circa 2011.
Can anyone say with certainty that i'll be okay if i were to get this 7870 when it comes to power? Are the newer cards more or less hungry than the older?
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Reply to grandpa murphy
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April 23, 2014 7:27:07 PM
grandpa murphy said:
Thanks to everyone who has posted so far - you all seem to know your stuff and i commend you for the feedback.I've had a few hours to research at work and have just noticed that i can get a powercooler brand 7870 for $139 -- and i'm about to pull the trigger on that deal (seems too good to pass up).
The one remaining question i have is about power consumption between my current 5850, the 7870 and the new r9 270's - i'm afraid that if i get the new card, i'll need a better power supply. I have no idea what my current one is rated as, only that it's good for my Sapphire 5850 w/1gb ram. My rig has the stock PSU from a Dell XPS circa 2011.
Can anyone say with certainty that i'll be okay if i were to get this 7870 when it comes to power? Are the newer cards more or less hungry than the older?
The new cards use less power than your old 5850, so you're good to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VafzR7JqO2I
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grandpa murphy said:
Thanks to everyone who has posted so far - you all seem to know your stuff and i commend you for the feedback.I've had a few hours to research at work and have just noticed that i can get a powercooler brand 7870 for $139 -- and i'm about to pull the trigger on that deal (seems too good to pass up).
The one remaining question i have is about power consumption between my current 5850, the 7870 and the new r9 270's - i'm afraid that if i get the new card, i'll need a better power supply. I have no idea what my current one is rated as, only that it's good for my Sapphire 5850 w/1gb ram. My rig has the stock PSU from a Dell XPS circa 2011.
Can anyone say with certainty that i'll be okay if i were to get this 7870 when it comes to power? Are the newer cards more or less hungry than the older?
for that price go for it. at that price you won't fine anything better. even the much slower 265 cost for 150. if your current PSU able to power up 5850 then it should be able to power up 7870 just fine. TPU shows that 7870 will use a bit less power than 5850 at max
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/...
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5850/28.html
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