Installation of XP & Win 7 same system but separate SSD's

BR2000

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After the advice of some techs here at TH, it turns out that I will not be able to run all my XP programs in XP mode on Win 7. I was then going to run a dual boot (on same SSD) of XP and Win 7. However, another TH tech said that I would be wasting my specs, not sure what he exactly meant by that. Obviously, I would only be running one OS at a time so it’s not like they would have to share anything other than space on the SSD. I did notice that Win 7 used up almost half of the SSD space, and with putting XP and many programs on that same SSD I could see where that could be a problem.
So, I was planning on installing another SSD (exact same as first) into my motherboard to give each OS its own space.
Can I have 3 hard disk drives installed on my current motherboard? And, be able to save all photos, videos, and documents, etc. to the same storage HDD from both operating systems……without any problems?


Build info:
Motherboard Gigabyte 990FXA-UD5 Rev 3.0
Processor FX 8350 AMD 8 - Core
Power Supply Seasonic M12 II Bronze 650 W
SSD Samsung SSD 840 EVO 120GB
HDD Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 3TB
Memory Mushkin Silverline 8GB x2 16GB
Graphics Card MSI Twin Frozr Geforce GTX 660


 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
1. "I did notice that Win 7 used up almost half of the SSD space"
Windows 7 on its own should not. On my 128 SSD, I have Windows 8.1 Pro and ALL applications on it. ~51GB used space.
Possibly you still have hibernation turned on? Uses drive space equal to the amunt of installed RAM
Pagefile? Consider reducing the size.
Windows.old still in there? Get rid of it.

2. "Can I have 3 hard disk drives installed on my current motherboard?"
Yes

3. "And, be able to save all photos, videos, and documents, etc. to the same storage HDD from both operating systems……without any problems?"
Yes. Each OS will see that as just another drive letter. Probably 'E'.
 
Bad idea honestly and I think your wasting money on multiple small SSDs, when a single 7200RPM 1TB for $50 is the common 'storage' and 'software' repository then installing everything on one small drive. What the norm is, you manually install all the applications (Games, programs, etc) instead of 'click click ' through the prompts, and point them to the D:\ drive (the HDD). Only the OS or critical stuff is on the smaller SSD. Since the OS is the key for all the programs to work, if it is running the 'fastest' it won't slow down the programs when they ask "how do I move a mouse" "can you load Font XYZ for me to us" etc.

That said, XP Mode was a answer to a current wave of more successful approaches, called Virtual Machines. Basically your installing a OS inside a virtual session to run like it was it's own machine. I would HIGHLY suggest you use Oracle's VirtualBox. It creates a virtual machine to run the XP inside and works very well (much better then XP mode) UNLESS your doing specialized direct hardware (binary) call outs (like some manufacturing machines that still run on XP OS, because they never wanted to spend the money to recode the application properly).

You do NOT want to dual boot multiple Windows (since Vista) because the MBR tends to get confused when BIOS calls out to all the drives "Where is the OS to run this computer" and both drives both answer "I AM" confusing things. So what happens is one OS MBR tries to over write the other to 'fix things' or worse BOTH drives MBRs get corrupted rendering all the data 'lost' (OS, files, programs, etc.) and inaccessible. Reinstalling OSes further causes problems and kills any chances to do a 'scan' from a second ocmputer on the HDD to recover files to a external HDD, there would be no 'inplace fix' to do it that wouldnt' write over the data permanently damaging / erasing it.
 

BR2000

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BR2000

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Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, I already spent money on a big HDD and the SSD 120GB for the OS. I don't want to have to pull one out. I would just be more comfortable throwing in another of the same SSD for XP. (On sale at Bestbuy right now) From what you said, a dual boot of Win 7 & XP would not work anyway, but I'll get to that later.
So your saying that I should install all programs on the HDD storage drive to keep OS running their best without having to deal with clutter of program files on their drive......makes sense.
I noticed that a lot of programs don't ask where you want to install it. If I download an .exe file from the internet, can I just cut it from the download folder and paste it in the D drive and open it there to have it install on D drive? What about programs on a cd, how do I manually install to D instead of C? You don't have to answer that one, probably a dumb question that I can find an answer to on google. I'm thinking that could get very confusing since XP programs won't run in Win 7 and vice versa. I guess it's just a matter of setting up each OS by going into D drive, create shortcut, and placing on desktop of OS that it applies to.......right.
Okay, now back to the dual boot problem. I use to work at Lucent Technologies years ago, and the IT techs set up a dual boot of XP & Win 7 for all the employees (hundreds). They then sent out a memo to everyone explaining the F Key process for opening whichever OS that they wanted to use. They said that it was a weaning process to slowly get everyone acclimated to using Win 7 and that the IT dept would no longer provide XP support 2 yrs from the date of the memo. So how did they do it without running into the MBR problems that you mentioned? There are also all kinds of tutorials showing the dual boot of both these operating systems, but they never mention about it not working afterwards.
(http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/11409-63-dual-boot-32bit-professional-64bit-windows-preinstalled) scroll down for actual instructions.

Let me know your thoughts please, I want to get things rolling.

Thanks again,
Bruce







 


If you just CLICK through then yes your right, but NO your mistaken. There is always a option, usually Advanced or Custom and you can then just change the C:\ to D:\ (C being SSD D being HDD).



If you download a program and run the install, it isn't just the EXE file that runs, there is many other files for the execution to function and since XPs release the files are not ALL in one folder (like yoru thinking bakc in Win98 days) but are reliant on other files scattered all over the HD. Simple anwer NO, you need to do as I mentioned above. Slow down, read what it say and just don't CLICK CLICK CLICK your way through it.



TOTALLY INCORRECT. Many XP apps run perfectly fine on 7, or just use the Compatibility option to tell it to 'act like XP', under properties for the shortcut. Further the problem is many people expect updates to their old legacy programs (XP) yet want all the new features and fixes WITHOUT BUYING a upgrade (update is NOT a upgrade). Hence why alot of rhetoric was tossed around and so many people held onto their XP systems. Honestly, there is NOTHING that is 'only on XP' needed these days, that a simple Google of the software wont' find a Upgraded version.



Licensing usually says only one COPY of the software per computer, and that includes ONE OS. Since your trying to register it under 7 then trying to do it under XP you wouldn't be able to install the software because it sees it (most often) as TWO computers it is being put on.

But in the case of using a VM (Virtual Machine) you wouldn't "see" the C nor D drive in XP, only the assigned amount of space to the VM for it to use, so you would be installing the OS and any apps in a 'Virtual' C Drive inside XP only. It wouldn't normally see the REAL C & D drives, unless you tried to configure it to do so (BAD IDEA, as that usually causes conflicts since we are talking different OSes and how they do file management etc.).



Your IT department is MUCH different then you home user, both in the versions of the software and how they 'build images' (I worked both sides both consumers and business and there is MANY technical differences). That said, what they used what a 'wrapper' that probably was like the Linux Boot Manager hack that is NOT support by Tom's Hardware that is loaded first, so the wrapper is the BOOT Manager (MBR), then you install a OS through it's VERY technical steps, reboot then repeat for the second OS, (again very highly technical steps)_ and the LINUX BootMGR hands the BIOS asking "who is the OS" it pauses and askes you "Which F Key please".

That said you bring up a CRITICAL issue (as I pointed out above as well) XP is NOT supported by anyone, Not Microsoft, No one. Patches, fixes, drivers, etc. have stopped and many removed, all depending on the maker's policies. So IF you install XP it is HIGHLY susceptible to failure as it has no support mechnism to fix glitches, protect against security issues (ohh look he is running XP, let's take it over and reformat his drive on him WEEEEE!!!!) etc.

As I said before, you can run ANY XP software UNLESS we are talking (like at Lucent) specific apps that made specialized hardware direct calls (i.e. like the old Analog Telco equipment) either normally or via COMPATIBILITY mode. IF you have a real desire for a XP OS, then I highly suggest just a VM of it is both the easiest method, best way to ensure no conflicts, and easily recoverable (Shut off the VM, reload VM and Image, back to where you were using it 10 min ago).
 

BR2000

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Your IT department is MUCH different then you home user, both in the versions of the software and how they 'build images' (I worked both sides both consumers and business and there is MANY technical differences). That said, what they used what a 'wrapper' that probably was like the Linux Boot Manager hack that is NOT support by Tom's Hardware that is loaded first, so the wrapper is the BOOT Manager (MBR), then you install a OS through it's VERY technical steps, reboot then repeat for the second OS, (again very highly technical steps)_ and the LINUX BootMGR hands the BIOS asking "who is the OS" it pauses and askes you "Which F Key please".

That said you bring up a CRITICAL issue (as I pointed out above as well) XP is NOT supported by anyone, Not Microsoft, No one. Patches, fixes, drivers, etc. have stopped and many removed, all depending on the maker's policies. So IF you install XP it is HIGHLY susceptible to failure as it has no support mechnism to fix glitches, protect against security issues (ohh look he is running XP, let's take it over and reformat his drive on him WEEEEE!!!!) etc.

I called the maker of my motherboard (Gigabyte) I asked them about the dual boot of Win 7 & XP and mentioned what you had said about the MBR problems. They said it can be done fairly easy by even a home user, provided some steps in doing so, and provided links for additional information and tools.
(http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/8057-dual-boot-installation-windows-7-xp.html)
(http://www.boyans.net/DualBootRepair.html)

As for XP no longer being supported / no more updates to fix glitches or security issues. I already know that all my current programs run just fine on XP and most new software is still being designed to run on XP, (1/3 of people still use XP) As for security issues, most likely I will not be using XP to connect to the internet. If I do, I have Bitdefender Total Security who guarantees that my XP operating system will be safe. If someone does hack it, no big deal as I will not be keeping anything important on it, that is what Win 7 is for.

As I said before, you can run ANY XP software UNLESS we are talking (like at Lucent) specific apps that made specialized hardware direct calls (i.e. like the old Analog Telco equipment) either normally or via COMPATIBILITY mode. IF you have a real desire for a XP OS, then I highly suggest just a VM of it is both the easiest method, best way to ensure no conflicts, and easily recoverable (Shut off the VM, reload VM and Image, back to where you were using it 10 min ago)

An XP (VM) is not an option because a (VM) does not have access to the video card. Absolutely nothing that I already own runs on Win 7. Not (Nero 7 or 8, Powerdvd 5, Audio mixing software, Photo scanner software, Printer software, Paintshop Pro, Adobe photo elements, etc. Sure, I could spend a $1000.00 on software upgrades, but for me it's not an upgrade if they did away with the features that I need. ( If you know of any video playback software that has down to 1/8 speed slow motion (and maintains slow motion after an AB Repeat loop ends and restarts from point A again, and a zoom feature that lets you use the cursor to draw a box around the part that you wish to zoom in on.....please, let me know.
Win 7 will not even let me roll back to an earlier Nvidia driver so that I can use the classic control panel when I choose to. The rollback button is greyed out, not active. Shit! I can't even disable the the locked taskbar to be able to pull windows down and over it. Someone even came out with a patch to fix it, but of course microsoft was quick to create an update to wipe out that patch......Sc___bags. Win 7 is just not user friendly it wants to control everything.



















 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
An XP (VM) is not an option because a (VM) does not have access to the video card. Absolutely nothing that I already own runs on Win 7. Not (Nero 7 or 8, Powerdvd 5, Audio mixing software, Photo scanner software, Printer software, Paintshop Pro, Adobe photo elements, etc.

I specifically have/had various versions of both of those running just fine in Win 7 and 8/8.1.
 


I believe you misunderstood what I said, I didn't say it couldn't be done but was pointing out the major differences between your 'previous experience' as compared to now 'on your own' steps you wish to do. Home users have done it before, but they are 'on their own', including the HIGH risks involved, which when they happen they lose everything and have to start from scratch, which many techie enthusiasts are more then willing to accept. As your unfamiliar with this, I wanted to advise you of the risks, and know the COMMON outcomes many people have had, so you can decide which path would be best.


Your mistaken here for a few reasons. First Bitdefender's revised Terms of Service (which you can access via their website legal page) won't "guarantees that my XP operating system will be safe", that is a legal liability they won't guarantee especially on 'unsupported and outdated OSes'. They as well as all software makers have done this routine before, and they all either A) End of Life on a version of software - aka we don't support it if you use it it is YOUR problem not ours B) revise the ToS on it and explicitly 'advise' to ensure 100% compatibility and 'as advertised' you need to use the 'minimum requirements' which lists the supported OSes.

That said, your number is inclusive of the worldwide count of systems, but NO people are not making new software designed to run on XP, for a couple good reasons. First, if they do make it, Microsoft forbids (i.e. want our lawyers to sue you out of business) the inclusion of their Logo (trademark) unless they meet Microsoft Certified standards, which states NO UNSUPPORTED OSes. So they will only code (which is MAJORILY different) for Windows 7/8 then for XP (there is a large library of security differences on how to code in 7/8 as compared XP which used elevated permissions and other backdoors locked down in Vista to 8, so you can't code the same way).



We are now entering Windows 8.1.1 now, Hard Drives use a file saving format of 4K and work in a vertical platter read method then horizontal, BIOS is dead UEFI now loads the 'hardware' first, and so on are significant changes on the hardware alone that make it incompatible with anything prior to Windows 7 SP1 (can't load UEFI , pre W7SP1 can't read the file format or understand how the HDD workd, etc.).

Adobe has many current applications that you can purchase right on their website, Windows 7 / 8 comes with 'burning' built in, there is no need for Nero nor even PowerDVD (as Windows can play any video) when VLC is free and small and plays any file format. There is plenty of free Audio mixing software, like Audacity, which is current and FREE, there is no need for 'printer software' as all application INCLUDE the printing functionality already built in, and everyone has Microsoft Office which most make things in Word then print it, or use Publish to do banners and other things if they can't 'search' via Word's built in (and connected online) templates for the same thing. Windows 7-8 natively can scan in any scanner, AND there is plenty of 'updates' on the scanner maker's website that can provide for it, if you need to. PSP or Photoshop (the main one people use) is again readily purchasable on their website and installed instantly, etc.

Your specific functions for videos is under the terms normally for video editing, as all players have a function for 'slow down' (check again VLC) which can slow the video down to any speed you like. As for a AB Loop, normally that is in Video Editing based software, where your segmenting the video down to a section and slowing the speed then looping that video segment. There is plenty of free software, almost all are hosted on SourceFourge.com and can be quickly google (here was a old article which googling the names of the software brought up the current websites http://www.computershopper.com/feature/the-best-free-software-video-and-audio-editing). Zoom functions are accessible with Magnify (built again into Window 7 /8) in realtime on your screen or a segment of the screen (click VIEWS and select LENS).

Basically everything your stating has a alternative or upgrade (not update) that is free or you would spend money for a proper (like Adobe's) professionally made software. All the software you listed is 'common' Bloatware included with the PC when purchased, and I am sure if you bought a off the shelf PC they would have it.

Honestly, everything I just got through saying is simple answers on changing you, the user, perspective or pattern on doing things. As I read this part several times, and from what I read on what your saying here, you are absolutely adamant to be on XP, the way XP was, with the software that worked with XP, and that is it. As you seem set on that, I can provide you all this information for you to see there is options, I do not believe that will work as your solution.

Your only option, honestly and sincerely, will be just keep your old machine set to one side you wish to keep as it's legacy design, performance, and etc. and hope it just doesn't belly up one day (parts are only guaranteed for 3 years from time of purchase based on a 40 hour weekly usage, after that the parts are known to 'wear out', break, defect, etc.) and you will be forced to just toss the entire thing in the trash or pay VERY HIGH for other people's used parts with no guarantee how long it will 'keep limping along'. You will then be forced at that time to either change, or be pissed off because it isn't "like it used to be" and just have to deal with it.

I believe the best solution path is just suck it up, and accept things changed, you will need to change, and shift with the new way things are done now, rather then when you have 'no choice' and are impacted much more dramatically (what do you mean they dont' sell those drives even on Ebay? How am I going to load XP then??).