i7-4771 underclocks during load

schray · May 2, 2014

Hi!

I have an i7-4771 with stock cooler on an Asus H87Pro, and I wanted to disable every speedstep, and power saving solutions and run the cpu at the max possible speed all the time. I don't really care about consumption, but I want to keep it within reasonable temps (I'm planning to replace the cooler later also)
I'm using Photoshop and Lightroom mostly, and these doesn't cause a constant load, rather spikes, and CPU throttling made these softwares stutter, when from almost idle state they go to 100% load instantly.
I turned speedstep and EPU off, but still, there is some change in clock speed, independent from temps.

I've tried under constant load also: during ca40% multicore load for 30mins it went back from 3,9Ghz to a constant 3,7Ghz, temps were around 58C, (~35C when idle)
I doesn't want to OC more, than it's factory turbo boost speed, but I found the Asus UEFI BIOS rather confusing, I'm not so familiar with some CPU settings and googled a lot already but I'm lost.

Could someone help me to what are the best settings in BIOS to have a very stable max processing power from this CPU?
I'm thinking EPU, EIST, C-States, and others... oh God, how I hate these powers savings techs, I went back to PC from notebooks to get rid of these, and here I am... Please help! Thanks!

krapton · May 2, 2014

turn all these features (c states, EIST,...) off and back on one by one and see when it stops

noidea_77 · May 2, 2014

The standard clock speed of this cpu is 3.5 GHz. It will only go up to 3.9, when half of the cores are idle / parked. And CPU throttling will never ever make your softwares stutter. Speedstep changes the cpu frequency way fast, then you will ever see a stutter caused by it.

schray · May 2, 2014

noidea_77 :

Well I don't know what caused stuttering then. Though I managed to fix it to 3,7Ghz, with disabling EIST, EPU,C-States and Spread Spectrum, and setting Digi+VRM options to higher values... temps went up a bit (~38-40C when idle), but the Lightroom runs much smoother now (almost no stutter when zooming into an undeveloped RAW image, sadly almost)
I'd expect smoother performance in Adobe Lightroom from an i7 with SSD and waaay enough RAM. I'm guessing it's not the hardwares fault

I doesn't know, what kind of magic needed to run this crap smoothly.

Thank you for the info about the nature of turbo mode, I'm not looking to go over 3,7Ghz anymore then.

schray · May 2, 2014

krapton :

Yeah, but I'm wary, I doesn't want to fry it :/

krapton · May 2, 2014

schray :

trust me, you cant fry your non overclocked cpu with the thermal monitor on

noidea_77 · May 2, 2014

schray :

noidea_77 :

Well I don't know what caused stuttering then. Though I managed to fix it to 3,7Ghz, with disabling EIST, EPU,C-States and Spread Spectrum, and setting Digi+VRM options to higher values... temps went up a bit (~38-40C when idle), but the Lightroom runs much smoother now (almost no stutter when zooming into an undeveloped RAW image, sadly almost)
I'd expect smoother performance in Adobe Lightroom from an i7 with SSD and waaay enough RAM. I'm guessing it's not the hardwares fault

I doesn't know, what kind of magic needed to run this crap smoothly.

Thank you for the info about the nature of turbo mode, I'm not looking to go over 3,7Ghz anymore then.

Well, we have seen so many other problems here, like ram not being used because of windows misconfiguration, or SSDs running in the wrong mode. Maybe resmon.exe can tell you more about the bottleneck.

schray · May 2, 2014

noidea_77 :

schray :

Well, we have seen so many other problems here, like ram not being used because of windows misconfiguration, or SSDs running in the wrong mode. Maybe resmon.exe can tell you more about the bottleneck.

Ok, what do I look for in resmon.exe? LR using only 500-1000Mb RAM
SSD is configured for max performance with Samsung Magician.
RAM misconfiguration? Where do I check?

BTW: what are the safe spike temps for this CPU? I managed to reach 76C with current settings, during a Lightroom export (ca 60-70% load)

krapton · May 2, 2014

schray :

noidea_77 :

Ok, what do I look for in resmon.exe? LR using only 500-1000Mb RAM
SSD is configured for max performance with Samsung Magician.
RAM misconfiguration? Where do I check?

BTW: what are the safe spike temps for this CPU? I managed to reach 76C with current settings, during a Lightroom export (ca 60-70% load)

those temps are perfectly fine

schray · May 2, 2014

krapton :

schray :

noidea_77 :

Ok, what do I look for in resmon.exe? LR using only 500-1000Mb RAM
SSD is configured for max performance with Samsung Magician.
RAM misconfiguration? Where do I check?

BTW: what are the safe spike temps for this CPU? I managed to reach 76C with current settings, during a Lightroom export (ca 60-70% load)

those temps are perfectly fine

I'm asking, because I ran an IntelBurnTest, and during prolonged 100% load it went all the way up to 96C. Then I shut down the test... :/

krapton · May 2, 2014

schray :

krapton :

schray :

those temps are perfectly fine

I'm asking, because I ran an IntelBurnTest, and during prolonged 100% load it went all the way up to 96C. Then I shut down the test... :/

Oh wow, id lower that clock speed and voltage :s or you can get a cheap aftermarket cooler (they really are not that expensive)

Eggz · May 2, 2014

Do you have a prebuilt computer? I ask because I had this same behavior on my 3930k, and I also use Lightroom a lot. After researching it, I found out that Intel's default specs on my CPU allows max boost speeds only if less than three cores are loaded, and when load hits three or more cores, the boost clock disables.

I actually ended up buying a motherboard that overrides that feature, allowing all cores to run at max boost clock even if all cores are under full load.

Here is the thread I made when contemplating the issue. There is a very useful graph in there about Lightroom 5 performance specifically: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2093170/upgrade-motherboard.html

Man did it help! I can export 60 MB TIFF images now at roughly the same speed I was able to export 10 MB Jpeg images. Ridiculous! I ended up getting an ASUS motherboard, and it's been amazing. I hope that helps.

schray · May 2, 2014

krapton :

schray :

krapton :

I'm asking, because I ran an IntelBurnTest, and during prolonged 100% load it went all the way up to 96C. Then I shut down the test... :/

Oh wow, id lower that clock speed and voltage :s or you can get a cheap aftermarket cooler (they really are not that expensive)

Yeah, I reverted the settings to factory defaults for now, and I'll buy a better cooler. Thanks!

schray · May 2, 2014

Eggz :

Thanks! I have no problems with constant load, like exporting, or generating previews (it heats up things pretty good, but 70C, and quick as hell) but I hate when I sorting pictures, checking sharpness, I zoom in 100%, lag, I move the picture around, lag, I zoom back, lag, I move to the next picture, lag... The workflow is almost as sluggish (except exporting) as was on my laptop, and my CPU almost costs as much as was my notebook...

Yeah, it's a prebuilt system, but not commercial one, it's from the company where I work. This mobo is pretty good when you doesn't wan OC, and I really don't, I just want the max constant power from it.

I managed now to lock it to 3,7Ghz, and under 50% load it's perfectly fine, but over that it's heating up to temps I'm not comfortable with. Now I'm looking for an aftermarket cooler, and we'll see. I may up ending buying a new mobo and a *K cpu, but I really don't want to OC, I prefer stability and longer lifespan more.

JOOK-D · May 2, 2014

Eggz :

Do you have a prebuilt computer? I ask because I had this same behavior on my 3930k, and I also use Lightroom a lot. After researching it, I found out that Intel's default specs on my CPU allows max boost speeds only if less than three cores are loaded, and when load hits three or more cores, the boost clock disables.

I actually ended up buying a motherboard that overrides that feature, allowing all cores to run at max boost clock even if all cores are under full load.

Here is the thread I made when contemplating the issue. There is a very useful graph in there about Lightroom 5 performance specifically: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2093170/upgrade-motherboard.html

Man did it help! I can export 60 MB TIFF images now at roughly the same speed I was able to export 10 MB Jpeg images. Ridiculous! I ended up getting an ASUS motherboard, and it's been amazing. I hope that helps.

So was it MCE (Multi-Core Enhancement) in the end that helped?

Eggz · May 2, 2014

JOOK-D :

I guess that is what it was called, now that I read this article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6214/multicore-enhancement-the-debate-about-free-mhz

I just set the multiplier, core-by-core, not overall, and that solved the issue. It must have overrode the MCE or something. Whatever the case is, I found that setting the overall multiplier left the problem intact, but setting it individually for each core fixed things.

Maybe you need a "K" or "X" CPU for this, since you can't adjust the multiplier on other CPUs. I can only attest to what I've done. At the same time, though, I did have to do A LOT of research on my specific issue in order to come to the conclusion that doing a per-core multiplier adjustment fixed the issue on my particular setup.

Eggz · May 2, 2014

schray :

Yeah, Lightroom can be so frustrating when it comes to performance. The key things to keep in mind are that it does not use GPU acceleration at all and that per-core CPU performance really makes a big difference. If you are having issues with navigating, you can minimize the problem, but not get rid of it.

Be sure you put your catalog on an SSD, and before you dive into a session, render a 1:1 preview for all images in the collection. That will help for the library module, and it helps in the develop module only until you make an edit. As soon as you do, the preview is no longer applicable, and you'll rely on your CPU's per-core speed exclusively. This is where overclocking really gets a HUGE leg up in Lightroom. It's just extremely CPU dependent.

As for your cooling, just get a cooler with the most surface area you can fit in your case. Water, air, whatever. Surface area makes the biggest difference because it spread the heat for easier dissipation. For easy air cooler that's quiet and reliable, definitely check out the Noctua D14. For all-in-one water, check out the Corsair H[x]i coolers (e.g. H100i, H80i, etc.). For quite solutions on the Corsiars swap the fans immediately for some Noctua NF-F12 fans. The stock fans work but they sound like jet engines.

On to overclocking, you won't get decreased life if you stay within the recommend power and heat limits. With a good cooler, staying within the voltage limit will ensure you will be safe on the temperature side of things. The max on Haswell that Tom's Hardware recommends is 1.30 volts:

Give it a shot if you want. Keep in mind, though, that with motherboard swaps, you'll need to reactivate Windows. If you're on Windows 8.x, you can transfer it over if you call MS with you original product key. But you'll have to buy a new copy if you have Windows 7, unless MS will be nice when you call - worth a shot.

schray · May 2, 2014

Eggz :

schray :

Yeah, Lightroom can be so frustrating when it comes to performance. The key things to keep in mind are that it does not use GPU acceleration at all and that per-core CPU performance really makes a big difference. If you are having issues with navigating, you can minimize the problem, but not get rid of it.

Be sure you put your catalog on an SSD, and before you dive into a session, render a 1:1 preview for all images in the collection. That will help for the library module, and it helps in the develop module only until you make an edit. As soon as you do, the preview is no longer applicable, and you'll rely on your CPU's per-core speed exclusively. This is where overclocking really gets a HUGE leg up in Lightroom. It's just extremely CPU dependent.

As for your cooling, just get a cooler with the most surface area you can fit in your case. Water, air, whatever. Surface area makes the biggest difference because it spread the heat for easier dissipation. For easy air cooler that's quiet and reliable, definitely check out the Noctua D14. For all-in-one water, check out the Corsair H[x]i coolers (e.g. H100i, H80i, etc.). For quite solutions on the Corsiars swap the fans immediately for some Noctua NF-F12 fans. The stock fans work but they sound like jet engines.

On to overclocking, you won't get decreased life if you stay within the recommend power and heat limits. With a good cooler, staying within the voltage limit will ensure you will be safe on the temperature side of things. The max on Haswell that Tom's Hardware recommends is 1.30 volts:

Give it a shot if you want. Keep in mind, though, that with motherboard swaps, you'll need to reactivate Windows. If you're on Windows 8.x, you can transfer it over if you call MS with you original product key. But you'll have to buy a new copy if you have Windows 7, unless MS will be nice when you call - worth a shot.

Thank you very much!
Sadly, the mentioned noctua is to big to my case, 154mm max, so I may go with a Zalman 9900 or something else,

And EIST, EPU, C-states could affect the LRs performance? Should I disable them, or just after I changed the cooler?

Eggz · May 2, 2014

schray :

That's fine. Any high-end cooler will do a good job. Just get the biggest one you can fit. If you like looks with a window, consider water; otherwise, air is totally fine.

schray :

I have all of that stuff on. Turning off speedstep will increase temperatures and power, which can cause the same degradation issues as overclocking. As JOOK-D pointed out, what effected the underclocking based on high loads was the Multi-Core Enhancement (MCE). I didn't directly adjust that, but I think I overrode it by doing a per-core multiplier overclock.

But after disabling MCE and upping the clock speeds, CPU-dependent tasks were much better. Keep in mind, though, I did increase the max turbo speed during full load on all six cores (12 threads) by 1,400 Mhz each. The difference in your case probably will help, but it might not be as night and day as mine was. Whatever the case, though, I think you'll see an improvement. Good luck!

i7-4771 underclocks during load

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