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Question about Haswell Refresh and sockets.

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May 8, 2014 7:25:21 AM

Hey guys I have a couple questions. First what us the difference between the Haswell Refresh and Devils Canyon. So the refresh is supposed to come out May 11 and Devils canyon june 2nd.

Do I have to have a motherboard with the z97 chipset or can I just use any old LGA 1150. Also what is different or improved with the new chipset.

Upgrading from fx 6300 to newest topend i5 when available.

Thanks
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May 8, 2014 7:35:15 AM

I believe that is still up for debate. Whether Z87 will still support DC or even Broadwell isn't exactly clear. What are you looking to achieve with your upgrade?
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May 8, 2014 7:42:17 AM

I am looking to get better framerates in cpu bound games such as bf4 and the upcoming watchdogs. I have two 7870 myst (7950s pretty much). In bf4 I am severely cpu bound with gpu usage well below 50% on both with frames dipping on massive maps. Mantle helps with it a lot but it's to unstable amd not well enough supported for my likes.
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May 8, 2014 8:02:45 AM

GPU usage can be low in crossfire situations. What motherboard do you have, and do you have aftermarket cooling?
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May 8, 2014 8:13:11 AM

Aftermarket on thE cpu yes. Its a 970 chipset with 16xand 4x lanes. Ive read that there is some performance Los But not a lot.
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a c 737 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 8:30:10 AM

There is definitely a performance loss there. I would not be surprised if your FPS stayed the same or even got better with only one card. You have both cards essentially running in x4 since they will run at the same speed to work together correctly. Are you running stock and which 970 board is it?
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May 8, 2014 9:22:30 AM

The exact one is 970a d3p. I was running at 4.5 but went back to stock because I was getting weird issues with overclocking. So I might as well upgrade to Intel to get better pcie support. Now I heard 8x and 8x is almost as good as regular 16x by 16x
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May 8, 2014 9:26:10 AM

At minimum you want x8 speed in both slots when 2 cards are used, yes. What are you looking to spend for the Intel upgrade?
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May 8, 2014 9:35:42 AM

Well I want the topend i5 and a decent mobo I hope z87 is supported so it's cheaper
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a c 737 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 9:37:25 AM

Unless you really want to overclock, I would just get this now.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($244.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $354.97
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-08 12:37 EDT-0400)
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May 8, 2014 11:38:23 AM

logainofhades said:
Unless you really want to overclock, I would just get this now.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($244.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $354.97
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-08 12:37 EDT-0400)


Why would you suggest a server/ video editing chip over a mainstream computer chip. Granted I don't need the onboard graphics but wouldn't a consumer chip make more sense. And I was planning on overclocking some. I have a hyper evo 212.

At this point it seems I should wait until May/June come and pass. I think it's really confusing of intel to have a haswell line, a haswell refresh, and a devil's canyon line also based on haswell.
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a c 737 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 12:24:17 PM

The 1230 v3 is nothing more than an i7 without IGP and a few added features if you were to use it with server equipment. It will perform similar to an i7 4770. No, it cannot overclock, but the cost to overclock really isn't worth it, imo. The extra $100+ that it can cost to overclock is better spent elsewhere. I believe DC is the Haswell refresh, I think you are thinking about Haswell-E, which is different socket.
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May 8, 2014 12:26:52 PM

I don't need a server. Would I really see a benefit from hypeethreading likes watchdogs says I should
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a c 441 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 12:33:59 PM

From what I've gathered so far, the Haswell Refresh will be supported on both Z87 (possibly with a BIOS update) and Z97, but Broadwell will be limited to Z97. Skylake will later on be on the 100 series motherboards.

Judging from this image released a while ago, I'd assume that the unlocked Devil's Canyon chips will only be supported by Z97 motherboards.



Z97 motherboards are expected to release around the 11th of this month, and the locked Haswell Refresh CPU's at the same time. The unlocked Haswell Refresh CPU's (Devil's Canyon) are expected around early June.

As for the Xeon, it really is just an i7 4770 and will perform almost identically. You will see a benefit from hyperthreading in multi-threaded games which may possibly be becoming more common. BF4 and Crysis 3 seem to be the current main examples, and Watch Dogs is expected to follow in their paths. It's hard to say whether you'd see more of a benefit from hyperthreading or overclocking a quad core - I'd expect them to perform similarly, though the Xeon route would cost far less.
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May 8, 2014 12:58:21 PM

So you think I should go the xeon route? How is the socket doing as far as further generations of cpu support?
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May 8, 2014 1:57:02 PM

Broadwell will be same socket. Broadwell, supposedly, will not be supported by current 8 series chipsets. It's successor, Skylake will be new socket. Given that Intel has not really been pushing the CPU performance envelope the past few gens, I don't expect much from Broadwell. We will probably get another 5-10% boost over Haswell/DC. Personally, I would go the Xeon route. I am wanting to build a mini-itx system with one, myself. Just lack the funds to do so.
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Best solution

a c 441 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 2:59:28 PM

Whereas on the other hand, I'm going to grab myself an i5 4690k and Z97 Maximus VII Hero :lol:  I'm mainly excited to see how far the Haswell Refresh overclocks compared to Haswell, due to the reported better TIM.

Not the most cost effective option, just a little fun and eye candy for myself. :) 

EDIT: I was on the verge of getting a Xeon myself until I heard about the new boards.
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May 8, 2014 2:59:35 PM

Are there new xeon processors coming out soon? I would hate to by it now and find out two months later a new series is coMing out
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May 8, 2014 3:02:21 PM

frillybob101 said:
Are there new xeon processors coming out soon? I would hate to by it now and find out two months later a new series is coMing out


The earliest I'd expect a new Xeon is broadwell. That's at the very end of this year, or the start of next year. Even so as logainofhades said, the only marked upgrade will probably be a 5-10% performance increase.

Here's a list of the processors officially announced for the Haswell Refresh: http://techreport.com/news/26317/here-are-the-specs-and...

The unlocked CPUs are yet to be announced, but from what I have read they are expected around early June.
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May 8, 2014 3:05:17 PM

Can you recommend new a few different xeon processors latest gem just different price ranges amd the one you would suggest. Looking at $250 max amd a motherboard that supports at least 8x by 8x crossfire
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a c 441 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 3:08:30 PM

frillybob101 said:
Can you recommend new a few different xeon processors latest gem just different price ranges amd the one you would suggest. Looking at $250 max amd a motherboard that supports at least 8x by 8x crossfire


This is about the cheapest I could get for your requirements.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1WKsl
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1WKsl/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1WKsl/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V3 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($244.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $354.97
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-08 18:07 EDT-0400)
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May 8, 2014 5:49:51 PM

So to conclude you guys really think it's better to go with a server cpu that can't overclock but has 2 extra mb of L3 ram and how for hyperthreading support in the future. Vs a new haswell that has a better TIM and can be overclocked,?
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a c 441 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 6:07:02 PM

Personally, I'd go with the new i5 that can be overclocked since you want a Z series motherboard anyway. Hyperthreads act as about ~30% of an actual core, and that's when they're fully utilised. For most games you'll get more performance out of 4 stronger threads rather than 4 good threads and an extra 4 weaker ones. However this comes with the downside of overclocking, reduced component lifetime (not usually an issue, they'll become outdated before they die in most cases), excess heat (a need for a new CPU cooler), more energy usage.

I'd wait for Z97 and the new i5 4690K (motherboard in a week or so, new CPUs in a month or so).
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May 8, 2014 6:09:06 PM

Does microcenter offer the 40 bucks off the cpu and mobo purchase on the new stuff?
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a c 441 à CPUs
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May 8, 2014 6:10:41 PM

No idea, I'm not from the US so I'm not particularly familiar. :p  You'll have to wait and see, I'm sure they'll offer some sort of deal on them.
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a c 737 à CPUs
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May 9, 2014 6:39:43 AM

frillybob101 said:
Does microcenter offer the 40 bucks off the cpu and mobo purchase on the new stuff?


I believe they do. So if you get one of the promo cpu's any compatible motherboard should be $40 off.
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