First time. Want to Build a Gaming Desktop. Budget near $1,500

With a budget that big, go with water-cooling, something like the H100 or H100i if you want closed loop. Go with a more expandable case, maybe the 300R or NZXT H440. A good GPU is the 760 or 770, but you might just be able to pull off a 780 with a budget that big.

The Hero is a great board .... well it would be at $175.... In this price category, I have switched to the GD65 ....

Newegg has the MSI Z97 GD65 for $180, the hero is $50 more. at $230... at same price, I'd still take the GD65.... Put that $50 towards a betetr GFX card .....haven't seen any reviews yet on the Z97 version but the Z87 reviews were glowing:

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/msi_z87_gd65_gaming/12.htm

MSI has been using components that meet or exceed MIL-STD-810G for some time as part of its Military Class build philosophy. Parts such as Super Ferrite Chokes that run at up to 35 degree Celsius lower temperatures, have a 30% higher current handling capacity, and a 20% improvement in power efficiency; Tantalum filled Hi-C Caps that are are up to 93% efficient; and "Dark Capacitors" that feature Lower ESR and a ten-year lifespan all tied into a PCB with improved temperature and humidity protections as part of the "Military Essentials" package......In the end MSI's Z87-GD65 is a board that comes with an expansive feature set that includes all your basics and the extras that set them apart such as the V-Check points, upper end audio, Dual BIOS ROMs, KIller Network package, Military Class IV package, and a three-year warranty. Couple that with good looks that carry the dragon theme through the board, and you have a winning combination at $189.

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http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/msi_z87_gd65_gaming_review/15

Now and again a motherboard appears that is so obviously brilliant, and so affordable, that we wonder if anything will be able to top it. For a while that crown was held by the ASUS Sabertooth, both in X58 and then P67 variants. Then MSI stole the crown with the Z77 MPower. Looking at the Z87 GD65 Gaming we think it's going to take something extraordinary to top it, such is the perfect storm of price, performance, features and looks.

The switch to Military Class 4 has given us an extremely ready overclocker too. You're always thermally limited when overclocking and the i7-4770K is one of the most demanding around. Considering the amount of cooling we're using we think that although the GD65 is capable of bringing 5GHz from our i7-4770K you'd need a proper water loop to make the most of it.

Performance is outstanding. The stock results were a particular highlight. We know a lot of people still just like to put their CPU in and go, without overclocking it first. Despite how easy it is these days we know that the fear factor still exists. So you'll be glad to know that the MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming really rocks hard even at stock settings. Naturally the overclocking is blistering too, with some OC3D records broken.

MSI have laid the gauntlet down to all the other manufacturers. Gorgeous to look at, blistering performance and all at a very affordable price, the MSI Z87 GD65 Gaming is not only the new benchmark for Z87 motherboards, but probably for all motherboards.

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I think you will find the 1866 and 2133 memory kits are about the same price. On newegg that same set is $80

The 1866 CAS 9 version is just $3 more at $83 and comes witha $10 discount code so $73...410 cheaper than your 1600s
USD $10 off w/ promo code EMCPEWE26, ends 5/21
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231455

The 2133 version is $80 but CAS 11 so its slower than the 1866's above. However ther's a CAS 9 versioin that is $85 which is also CAS 9 so the 2133's would be a proverbial "no brainer"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231476

The Black is a fine ole drive and still comes with a 5 year warranty ... just be aware that current drives like the 7200.14 are about 30% faster.

The Corsair 500R is at a very sick price of $59.99 right now
$139.99 - $40 newegg discount - $20 MIR - USD $20 promotional gift card w/ purchase, limited offer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139010

Another one ya might like is the Enthoo Luxe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3lQwRQ3UaM

If heat is a worry, I'd upgrade to a Phanteks PH-TC14-PE it's $40 more but 7-10C cooler. it's also available in various colors. You probably have though of "faux water cooling" ... aka AIO / CLC coolers. To my mind, such a device would have to be both thermally and acoustically superior to offset the risk of water inside the case. No AIO cooler has as yet done that. If you must go AIO, Id suggest the Corsair H110 as it almost matches the Ohanteks thermally and yet actually manages to be a hair quieter. The H100i on the other hand is the equivalent of a modern vacuum cleaner. Give a listen here:

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/03/12/swiftech-h220-vs-corsair-h100i-noise-testing/



For monitor, the Asus 144 Hz is "da bomb" . We have a$1,000 Dell IPS monitor sitting her cause everyone jumps on the 144 Hz and 120 Hz Asus monitors when gaming .... of course all photo editing gets down on the Dell.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236313

PSU is tough as ya haven't given any idea of what GFX budget is .... If money's there we have been using mostly Asus / MSI GTX 780s with SLI planned in the future or from the getgo .... at $470 each it's a great buy. If you do not intend to overclock the card(s), the 290x is faster outta the box but I have been able to get a much higher % OC on the 780s (25%) than I have been able to get on the 290x's (12%). An 850 watt PSU will handle two 780s / 290x's.....650 watter will do one

If serious overclocking, I'd get a 10.,0 jonnyguru performance rated 850 watt PSU such as the Seasonic X series or Corsair HX series .... if moderately overclocking Seasonic M12 series, Corsair TX V2 or RM series, XFX Core edition.

If budget allows and you wanna break into water cooling the Asus Maximus VI Formula comes complete with Water Block preinstalled and has built in WiFi. The Asus Poseidon also has water block installed and when used "under water" is able to matcvh 780 Ti performance. The Z97 isn't out yet so I'd wanna wait for that to happen if going this route.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132038
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121869

If that budget is too big, look at the MSI 770 ... has one of the best clocks outta the box and runs extremely cool and quiet.

The AIO type water systems are sealed..... so there is no liquid loss. A Corsair H110 comes close to matching the Phantek's thermal performance and is a teeny bit quieter. The H100 at 60+ dBA sounds like a vacuum cleaner.

If you use a SSD I would not go below 128 GB .... if you do, within 6 months you will be trying to figure out how to make space on it. can't tell you how many users boxes wind up on my dining room table with requests to "clean my C drive for me".

If ya worried about what files are on where, and the hassle of that, I'd suggest a SSHD. I have identical machines side by side and no one yet has been able to tell which machine has the SSD + 7200 rpm HD and which has the SSHD. With a stop watch I can tell you that the SSD boots (15.6 secs) almost a second faster than SSHD (16.5) ... the HD boots in 21.2 secs.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178381

The 500R comes in Black and White .... every week or 2 newegg has a spacial on either one of them. the white one is $59 now, next week )or 2) the black one will be on special. The Enthoo Luxe should hit the shelves by then too

As for the general quality assessment, I'll need some hard data other than anectdotal evidence and all we have there is RMA rates. "I had a MoBo once" and "I knew a guy" statements are oft used to support personal bias but I gotta see hard verifiable data to offset my own personal experience and reviews by respected sites. Look up RMA rates and you will see that MSI has lower return percentage than Asus as often as not.... Now this changes semester to semester and a particular model might have an issue that results in high return rates. One of the Asus Extreme models got up near 6% at one time....the initial G45s had an issue with the Killer networks on board LAN which drove RMAs almost as high till it was fixed by a firmware update .... isolated incidents such as this have a significant effect on the RMA rates across the board. So when looking at these numbers, looking at just one won't tell you the whole story....make sure to look at a few semesters worth before forming a conclusion but also consider how relevant the data is .... is data from say 5 years ago refective of what they make today ?

http://technewspedia.com/failure-rate-of-pc-components-october-2012/

Don't get me wrong .... I have done over 100 Asus based builds in recent years and there was a time when they ruled across just about all price categories. Peeps who haven't used MSI for 5 years "because back in 2009 ...." that echoes my own experience, both personal and colleagues. Remember when Gskill started up ? They were the king of low prices with quality / performance to match .... now they compete with the best of them. Asrock was spun off by Asus so they could make cheap MoBos for the 'builder" market w/o tarnishing their enthusiast reputation and since Asrock has come back to compete with Asus in many segments. PC Power and Cooling was the best PSU manufacturer hands down, where are they today ? (OCZ). The fact that "things change" is never more true than in the PC industry.

Simply put, it all comes down to component quality ....For example, Super Ferrite Chokes, Tantalum filled Hi-C Caps and "Dark Capacitors" with 10 year life spans are hi quality components which one usually pays more for.
Starting with Z77 MSI made a strong push for the $125 - $200 market segment "Out Asus'ing" Asus delivering a higher quality product at a lower price. You have to ask yourself.... can all the web sites giving out awards and writing reviews all be wrong ?

Asus still owns the market from $275 and up. To my view, the $200 - $275 niche is a vacuum. Asus is coming out with a new Ranger board which is a less expensive version of the Hero to compete with MSI. Use the compare function on newegg to look at the Hero and GD-65 boards ..... It shows that while the Hero is a very fine board, how do you justify the $50 price premium given its the cheaper MSI MoBo that meets Mil Spec. As for the Gaming 7, there's a whole slew of these boards and it will be a while before we see whether there is any standouts in this segment.

As for the GFX, I started looking at SLI differently with the 5xx series. In the past I would have bought a 580 and figured I'd get another down the road when the system got older and games started challenging it. But, in those past instances, by the time I was ready to upgrade, the cards i wanted were no longer available. In addition, two 560 Tis gave 40% more performance than the 580 but 2 x $205 fir the 560 Tis was $100 cheaper than $510 for the 580. That made the 560 Ti the best selling DX11 GFX card up until about November of last year. The 660 is now has the highest market penetration of any DX11 card

Next generation the 670 was the big splash though vendors wised up and shrunk the price difference between the 670 and 680. With the newest stuff I have been shocked by the recent sales trends .... The 760 is the 3rd biggest seller among DX11 GFX cards, the 770 is 7th....the 7870 is the only card in the top 10 from AMD. Even weirder the 780 Ti has the same market penetration (0.35%) as all R9 200 series cards combined.

Yes, closed loop refers to the idea that they come 100% sealed, so no addition of fluid needed.

Here's the thing .... when I do a build for a user, they are gonna do one of two things:

a) Use a 120/128 GB or larger SSD
b) Promise never to bring it back and ask me to clean it.

Yes, astute windows users are capable of using a 64 GB and will get cupla years before they wanna reinstall to get rid of all the accumulated junk. But most "1st timers" were bringing the things back till I finally hadda say "No mas".

It's not about where you put things, it's about where Windows and programs puts things...... things like "Common Files" .... you can install a program to the HD but Common Files go on C:\

If this is not obvious to you, then I'd suggest getting the SSHD. I consider myself well versed in the subject and granted I have some big programs like 3 versions of AutoCAD, Adobe Acrobat Pro .... I don't have to work so hard to keep it clean on a 128 GB partition but it's currently at 89 GB ... time for maintenance

Program Data - almost 6 GB
Windows - 32 GB
User / App Data - 14 GB

Running Steven Gould's Cleanup knocked off 11.2 GB .... guess I been a slacker lately .... but must be wrong as disk space used only dropped by 4GB ...will have to get to this weekend.


As for the SSHD, they're great....they do all the figuring out of what needs to be there .....essentially stuff that needs it most goes there.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5748/seagate-desktop-2tb-sshd-st2000dx001-review/index9.html

Now, if you are one that chooses to use a single drive for your operating system, and have held onto your standard desktop HDD for the benefit of capacity, the Desktop SSHD is calling your name. The 8GB of NAND cache in conjunction with Seagate's application optimized algorithms should offer a tremendous performance boost, and again the more you use, it the faster the drive will get, as it learns how you use your system.

In every case seen here today, the Seagate Desktop SSHD excels, whether it be a synthetic point and click benchmark like HD Tune or ATTO, or even application traces via PCMark 8, the drive just performs.

Pricing of the Seagate Desktop SSHD puts it in a position to dominate. The 2TB capacity seen here today comes in at $139.99 and is available now at many online retailers, while the 1TB capacity is immediately available as well, coming in at $99.99

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As for the cards, the EVGA Classified is a great card but the SC is at the bottom of most lists.
http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4639/10/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-asus-vs-evga-vs-inno3d-vs-msi-conclusion

That $580 price gave me a chuckle....2 weeks ago the MSI 780 Ti was $600.

The MSI 780 is $470....if you willing to spend $500-580, I'd look at the Lightning for $550 and the Classified for $510
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130943&cm_re=gtx_780-_-14-130-943-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127754&cm_re=gtx_780-_-14-127-754-_-Product

I'd upgrade to the current Z97 model MoBo.

The Black 500R is now on sale.
$59.99 after $40 newegg discount, $20 MIR and USD $20 promotional gift card w/ purchase, ends 5/26

Ya need a 550 watt PSU w/ no OC, 600 - 650 watt PSU for that card and CPU / GPU overclocking .... but the 750 watter is right between what ya need for one card and what ya need for two cards. The very good M12 850 watter is $110 ..... the best 850 watter out is the X-850

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151108
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151102

WiFi - How much ya wanna spend ?

$97 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320173
$53 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127219
$28 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320113

Monitor.... with what you have invested in GFX card, can't see not matching it with 144 Hz

Yes, I have done 10-12 builds with that case and the Phanteks.

I have a Kil-o-watt meter.... it measures power draw from the wall. Running Furmark, it pulls about 770 watts from the wall (~ 695 watts output to components) with two 780s w/ 25% OC. Other than my two water pumps, you'd have basically the same system.....Furmark only puts 40 watt load on the CPU so with that added, ya could be looking at 795 watts - the pumps of course....say 25 watts.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_780_lightning_review,9.html

Here is Guru3D's power supply recommendation:

GeForce GTX 780 - On your average system the card requires you to have a 550 Watt power supply unit.
GeForce GTX 780 2-way SLI - On your average system the cards require you to have a 800 Watt power supply unit as minimum.
GeForce GTX 780 3-way SLI - On your average system the cards require you to have a 1200 Watt power supply unit as minimum.

If you are going to overclock your GPU or processor, then we do recommend you purchase something with some more stamina.

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The X97 is simply the Z87 with the newer Intel Chip. That's the only change. While I would by no means upgrade from a Z87 to Z97, it's kinda like buying a 2014 car in September of 2014 after the 2015 models are out.

You won't find many reviews as yet I don't think as 1) it's basically the same MoBo w/ new chip and 2) it's a bit new. It will give ya a bit more future proofing, mSATA support and little else.

The way you are going, you gonna be upgrading till the day you buy it. .... that Pro takes you out of the gaming realm and into the more workhorse oriented boards so you lose a little flexibility in the gaming arena there. For another $70 you could get the Maximus XI Formula (aka M6F). I'm sitting here OC tweaking one right now after a BIOS upgrade.

I live in a 200year old dairy barn ..... it's timber frame construction and I hadda drill thru 8" thick locust wood (aka "ironwood") beams to run my ethernet cables. Wouldn't have it any other way. But wives and mom's can get cranky about that stuff

Theae are the differenmces newegg lists but they sometimes leave stuff out .... GD65 listed 1st / 7 is 2nd

HDMI 1 x HDMI 2 x HDMI
USB 3.0 4 x USB 3.0 8 x USB 3.0
USB 1.1/2.0 2 x USB 2.0 2 x USB 2.0
Onboard USB 4 x USB 3.0 + 4 x USB 2.0 2 x USB 3.0 + 4 x USB 2.0
Form Factor ATX ATX
DisplayPort ? 1 x DisplayPort