AM3/AM3+ Processor Upgrade

DazGB · Jun 1, 2014

Hello,

I am looking to upgrade my CPU by the end of the month and intend to stay on the same platform to keep the costs as low as possible. (Will be buying used, therefore assume costs are lower than retail) This will be for predominately gaming.

System:

AMD Athlon X3 440 @ 3.0Ghz
Asus M4A785TD-V Evo
4GB G.Skill Ripjaws 1600Mhz DDR3 Ram
XFX 6850
500W OCZ SXS

1) Will AM3+ processors work on my motherboard? I've looked on the Asus site and they are not currently listed.
2) Should I upgrade to a Phenom ii X4 980/X6 1100T or should I purchase one of the more recent Bulldozer/Piledriver CPUs, permitted that my motherboard supports them of course.
3) Alternatively I could pick up a Phenom II 965 to overclock and use the remaining money to buy a new PSU for future 6850CF.

Any input would be appreciated,

Cheers,
Daz.

clutchc · Jun 1, 2014

That motherboard has an AM3 socket. So you are limited to Phenom II X4 and X6 processors as the max you can go. The newer FX processors require an AM3+ socket. I would look around places like ebay for a used Phenom II X4 955 or greater for some noticeable improvement over your 3 core Athlon II.

The 980BE/1100T you mentioned would be the best, but they are few and far between, and demand premium price due to their scarcity. Occasionally you can find a new Phenom II X4 9xx or X6 1xxx, but when you do you will pay more than a new FX 8350.

Chicano · Jun 1, 2014

Initially AM3+ CPUs were not compatible with AM3 motherboards.. It was clearly stated that the FX CPU were made specifically for AM3+ motherboards... but more recently it was said that a BIOS update would make a AM3 motherboard compatible with a AM3+ CPU... and I have read comments of people assuring they have them setup... It's been the same story as with AM3 CPUs on AM2+ Mobos so I suppose it's possible and maybe only with newer and higher end AM3 mobos (with BIOS updates obviously) and I still wouldn't make any assurances. And depending on the FX CPU you intend to buy, a higher end Phenom may be your best option. Check the list of AM3 and AM3+ cpus to compare their performance and get a good idea of which model youd want to get.

Socket AM3 & AM3+ CPU Performance - Updated 1st of June 2014
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/socketType.html#id11

Zircoben · Jun 1, 2014

DazGB :

Here is your motherboard's CPU support list: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M4A785TDV_EVO/HelpDesk_CPU/

Notice, no AM3+ CPUs.

The Phenom II X6 1100T is the best CPU you can get, and that costs A LOT: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-X6-1100T-Six-Core-CPU-Socket-AM3-3-3Ghz-Processor-6MB-Black-Ed-/221447716681?pt=CPUs&hash=item338f4fff49

This is probably a better deal: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Phenom-II-X6-1055T-2-8-GHz-Six-Core-HDT55TFBGRBOX-Processor-/171336159718?pt=CPUs&hash=item27e46e51e6

Hagaxe · Jun 1, 2014

In a few years you will have to upgrade anyways, so just ditch your current MOBO and get a new setup!

Zircoben · Jun 1, 2014

Hagaxe :

Agreed. For your money, you will get so much more out of a new Intel motherboard/ CPU. I would avoid getting an AM3+ motherboard, simply because the socket is dead and for the money, it's not worth it when you already have AM3.

By far, you will see the best performance per dollar starting with a new Intel LGA 1150 motherboard. I can help you with an Intel build, just tell me if you want to do it and your price.

clutchc · Jun 1, 2014

Chicano :

It's going to take more than a BIOS update to make a FX processor fit in the OP's AM3 socket. The FX processors have larger pins that won't fit in the original AM3 socket. And they have 942 pins to the 941 holes in the AM3 socket.
So the entire socket would have to modified. In fact, that is what has been done on some older design boards.

Chicano · Jun 2, 2014

clutchc :

Apparently some AM3 motherboards had physical support for the AM3+ CPU. Black socket AM3 motherboards are mentioned as having the black socket which was later the AM3+ socket.
The AM3 Socket has 941 pinholes.
The AM3 CPU has 938 pins
Even if the AM3+ CPU has 940 pins, it would still fin in a 941 pinhole AM3 socket.

According to these wikis both AM3 and AM3+ CPUs have 938 pins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM3%2B

So, I dont see why it wouldnt fit in a AM3 socket. Besides it's officially confirmed by AMD.
http://www.overclockers.com/amd-confirms-support-bulldozer-am3/
http://www.overclockers.com/amd-confirms-support-bulldozer-am3/
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/289124-30-possibility-cpus-working-boards

MSI 890GXM-G65 AM3 Motherboard
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890GXMG65.html#hero-specification
With AM3+ sUPPORT
http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890GXMG65.html#hero-overview

clutchc · Jun 2, 2014

@ Chicano
Very interesting. I didn't think that would be possible with AMD increasing the thickness of the pins on the AM3+ CPUs. I was lead to believe they did that expressly so there would be no one trying to force an AM3+ CPU in an AM3 socket. And the pin-out being electrically different was suppose to be another deterrent. If that is actually happening, I would like to know if it would work on an MSI-785GM E65 motherboard I have.

Chicano · Jun 2, 2014

@ clutch
I quote a few comments posted on a ASRock forum in April 26th 2011 which says:

Q: Well if the AM3+ cpus have bigger pins,how are they going to fit in the AM3 boards with a bios update?

A: They don't have bigger pins.... yet, but possibly in the future, hence that they might not work in AM3 sockets down the road..

"I just picked up a "ASRock 890GX PRO3 AM3" for my 1055t 2 weeks ago and it has the new socket". (meaning black socket)

Something of the sort is also mentioned in the article. So at least the FX CPUs up to date apparently do not have thicker pins.. the 0.06 mm larger pinholes are no doubt there for future CPUs, but I don't think they are here yet, or the word would be out by now.. but who knows, maybe the more recent FX-9590, 9370 220 watters do need and may have thicker pins.
http://www.techpowerup.com/144725/asrock-uses-real-am3-sockets-lists-out-advantages-over-am3.html

I downloades some images to count for myself the pin holes as well as pins on both sockets and cpus, and these are the numbers:
AM3 SOCKET = 941 Pin holes
AM3 CPU = 938 Pins
AM3+ SOCKET = 942 Pin holes
AM3+ CPU = 940 PINS.

You can see in the image the comparison. The FX CPU was inverted to compare the pin to pinhole pattern and FX to AM3 socket patterns seem to match. So, physically there is no impediment for the FX to fit the AM3 socket... the electrical differences are probably what the BIOS update is supposed to correct on AM3 motherboards, but that may depend on the motherboard manufacturer, and the latest BIOS update for your motherboard on the MSI-785GM E65 product page is from 2011-02-18.. so it may have been made available to soon to have the compatibility modification. Maybe looking in the BIOS websie.
http://i62.tinypic.com/11av0bd.png

DazGB · Jun 2, 2014

Thanks for the input guys.

After much thought the plan is to sell the Athlon and upgrade to a phenom ii 965/955. (Which will cost +£25/$40) Then overclock as close to 4.0Ghz as possible. Should make a big difference!

Will be upgrading to the new Intel chips before the year is out, but I'm sure you will agree that an OC'd 955/965 + 6850 will suffice for 99% of current games at reasonable settings.

Cheers,
Daz.

clutchc · Jun 2, 2014

DazGB :

The MSI 785GM-E65 board I was discussing with Chicano earlier has an OC'd Phenom II X4 965BE at 4GHZ (R9-280). I easily got to 4GHZ simply with the multiplier and a tiny voltage increase. It's rock solid stable and probably could go higher. But my goal was 4GHZ, so that's where I stopped. I was lucky enough to find this new sealed 965BE at a resonable price not too long ago. Used ones may not have the life left in them after passing thru several hands, if you know what I mean.

DazGB · Jun 4, 2014

Rather than opening a new thread:

Manged to buy a PII 965 that's under a year old, had one owner and has never been OC'd. Came with decent Zalman cooler too.

Just to confirm; my 500w psu should have the power to facilitate a 4.0GHZ goal OC?

In addition to the above specifications: have 4 120mm case fans, CD Drive + WD 640GB HDD.

clutchc · Jun 4, 2014

DazGB :

Is this the OCZ PSU that you have? http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6491961
While not the best, it does have 3 x +12V rails @ 18A each. Since it only has a single 6/8 pin PCIe connector, you won't be using to powerful of a gfx card with it. So it should be OK for overclocking the 125W processor. Of course as you OC it, the processor will no longer be consuming only 125W. But I feel you will be fine.

DazGB · Jun 4, 2014

Mine is the original SXS OCZ with the revised 2 pin 6/8 connectors.
However, the rails are pretty much the same. Only just realized on looking at the reviews on power supply are dated around 2008.

I think I'm just going to upgrade, just to play it safe, as I feel as though its a ticking time bomb being that old!

Cheers for the reply.

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