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2 Different Computer Setups, 2 Different CPU questions (AMD VS Intel) 1 Design and 1 Gaming machine

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June 5, 2014 2:19:22 PM

Hello,

It's been a while since I've been on the forums, and a while since I've put together a computer (from scratch).

I'm looking to build 2 machines.

After 5 years of service I will be putting away my i7 920 w/ 6GB of ram.

Anyways. I'll post what I'm looking at and if I can get any suggestions

First Computer (gaming) MINE
i7 Intel (4 core vs 6 core) still on fence.

8 or 16 GB ram

240 Intel 530 SSD (already have it + Adata SX900 256 SSD)

Video card: 780 ti (already found a great price on one so I picked it up)

PSU Corsair 1000HX (old 1)

Case Undecided

Second Computer (Design: Such as autocad, 3DS Max and office work) GF's

Intel vs AMD (so I wanted to possibly have the best bang for the buck for this, so I was debating an 8 core AMD vs an i7 or i5 Intel).

The rest of the specs I'm not to worried about but if you can suggest a good Workstation video card I'd love it :) 

Thanks guys, I'll add more as I see it progress but ANY advice is appreciated.

Mostly 6 core vs 4 core i7 and AMD vs intel 4 core vs 8.

The reason why I amd considering a 6 core Intel for my gaming because I'll be using it for programming and some other design work, while the 2nd PC will be for my girlfriend for her design work.

June 5, 2014 8:52:14 PM

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June 5, 2014 9:22:47 PM

Hello, look at Intel Xeon CPUs for your girlfriends PC.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

If she is doing office work and programing the hyper threading is a big help. A Xeon CPU is pretty much like an i7 CPU with 4 cores and 8 threads, compared to the i5s which are just 4 cores 4 threads.

They have marginally lower clock speeds, with the major difference being lack of integrated graphics. Its definitely best bang for the buck, and just a low end GPU will be plenty, like an Nvidia 820 or 830, or AMD R7 250 or R7 240. Any of those will be plenty, with the AMD cards out of those 4 having the best performance.

Or if you want to go with an LGA 1155 system for her, I still recommend Xeon CPUs but the LGA 1155 CPUs have the integrated graphics built in and are only like 5% slower at the same clock speed. So it would help save some extra cash and not need to buy a graphics card as the integrated graphics are enough to play even light games.


For your PC, I would stay with a quad core processor because I don't really think you will notice the increase in performance. I went from an i3 to an i7, overclocked it, and didn't notice any real improvement. Looking back and having a second choice, I would of bought a Xeon CPU instead.
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June 6, 2014 6:52:16 AM

IInuyasha74 said:
Hello, look at Intel Xeon CPUs for your girlfriends PC.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

If she is doing office work and programing the hyper threading is a big help. A Xeon CPU is pretty much like an i7 CPU with 4 cores and 8 threads, compared to the i5s which are just 4 cores 4 threads.

They have marginally lower clock speeds, with the major difference being lack of integrated graphics. Its definitely best bang for the buck, and just a low end GPU will be plenty, like an Nvidia 820 or 830, or AMD R7 250 or R7 240. Any of those will be plenty, with the AMD cards out of those 4 having the best performance.

Or if you want to go with an LGA 1155 system for her, I still recommend Xeon CPUs but the LGA 1155 CPUs have the integrated graphics built in and are only like 5% slower at the same clock speed. So it would help save some extra cash and not need to buy a graphics card as the integrated graphics are enough to play even light games.


For your PC, I would stay with a quad core processor because I don't really think you will notice the increase in performance. I went from an i3 to an i7, overclocked it, and didn't notice any real improvement. Looking back and having a second choice, I would of bought a Xeon CPU instead.


Ok Thank you very helpful info, so You think I shoudl stay away from the AMD processors all together? Also having Server CPUs I heard they are more efficient at handling workstation tasks, also having a longer life (running hours that is).

Is there a clear reason as to why workstation CPU vs gaming CPU is more effective? I've read reasons in the past but never really grasped the concept as to why it handles the events better.

FYI I forgot to mention this, for my PC I'm looking to get AT least 5 years from now on out of it, which is why I was wondering if 6 core is a better investment.

I change video cards once a year to 2 years (depending on how much gain is on market), but CPU, motherboard and Ram I make VERY rare changes. I've been using the current build since 2008/9 so I remember paying a little extra back then to have a longer lasting system.

Thoughts?
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June 6, 2014 7:12:07 AM

Go with a 1230v3 and an H97pro for both systems, unless you want SLI capability, then get your system a Z97 extreme3.
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June 6, 2014 7:19:24 AM

logainofhades said:
Go with a 1230v3 and an H97pro for both systems, unless you want SLI capability, then get your system a Z97 extreme3.


A workstation CPU even for my gaming machine? Isn't that inefficient (it has certain drawbacks including very picky overclocking) Also for the price of that I can get a 4770k that has higher overall scores from benchmarks I've seen:S

It just seems it wouldn't be a big enough step going from my i7 920 @ 3.8 GHZ to the E3-1230 v3

http://www.ncix.com/detail/intel-xeon-e3-1230-v3-8mb-ba...
passmark : 9,482
http://www.ncix.com/detail/intel-core-i7-4770k-unlocked...
passmark: 10,313
I mean it's only about 60$ difference and you get an overall stronger cpu?:S
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June 6, 2014 7:23:19 AM

The Xeon doesn't overclock, but doesn't really need to. It is basically an i7 4770 without IGP. It will perform nearly identical to an i7 4770. The 4770k is $80 more and you would want an even better board for overclocking, plus the aftermarket cooling, easily making the cost $100+ more. Overclocking just isn't worth that added cost. For her system, since the programs can be used with AMD cards, I would go with the R9 290. It would be far cheaper than a workstation card and quite capable.
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June 6, 2014 7:26:55 AM

logainofhades said:
The Xeon doesn't overclock, but doesn't really need to. It is basically an i7 4770 without IGP. It will perform nearly identical to an i7 4770. The 4770k is $80 more and you would want an even better board for overclocking, plus the aftermarket cooling, easily making the cost $100+ more. Overclocking just isn't worth that added cost.



But to last 5 years like the i7 920 did (in terms of investment) The i7 920 still performs admirably when compared to others even current Gen CPUS, especially since I've had it at 4.0GHZ and now 3.8 ghz I think the overclocking helped a lot in terms of lasting performance?

added above some info.

EDIT:
Please don't take my argument as pedantic or stubborn I'm merely trying to play devil's advocate in order to achieve the best result, I appreciate EVERYTHING being said here.
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June 6, 2014 7:36:39 AM

Turbo with multicore enhancement, you would still reach 3.7ghz with the 1230v3.
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June 6, 2014 7:52:29 AM

logainofhades said:
Turbo with multicore enhancement, you would still reach 3.7ghz with the 1230v3.


So with the Xeon it's a better investment than either ht 4770k or 4930k?
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June 6, 2014 9:18:56 AM

Depends, if all you are going to do is gaming, the best investment is a 4770k or 4790k, you are pretty much future proof for the next 3-5 years (debatable) if you get a good z97 motherboard. Why K? because lets say in the future you start lagging behind, just overclock a little bit to compensate. I dont know why people recommend xeons for gaming, they are not for gaming.

a 4930k is a waste for gaming unless you do huge renders, which that would be the purpose of a 4930k, "it can game, hell yeah it can render".

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June 6, 2014 9:34:58 AM

Logainofhades knows what he is talking about.

When it comes to your GFs PC, its no question. The Xeon CPU is the best choice. It saves a lot of cash, and its a lot of power. I think there are some small changes deep inside of them that might help with office work, like an extra feature enabled, but its really a very minor small thing if any exists.

The biggest change I would make to what he is suggesting, is that you get a Z97 motherboard regardless of your choice. The Xeon CPUs don't officially support overclocking, and that is the only draw back to them when it comes to gaming. However using a Xeon, since it lacks the integrated graphics especially, tweaking the FSB on a good board should get you from 3.7Ghz to 3.9Ghz with a little luck.

Other than that, i can see enough reason why you might want an overclockable CPU for yourself. I plan to keep mine for 5 years also, and honestly I would of been happy with a Xeon for that long, and would rather have the money back than the overclocking in all honesty. The gains I get aren't huge and not really worth the extra cash. When it comes to this super high end chips I just don't really feel the need. Its not as helpful as in a lower end chip where a few hunderd Mhz might make 10% boost or more.
If you really are set on wanting overclocking, go for a 4930k. However, if you overclocked it as far as possible and did a test on your GFs PC and yours using the same graphics card, your FPS would probably be within 1FPS of each other, 2FPS tops.
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June 6, 2014 9:49:03 AM

atf_mart said:
Depends, if all you are going to do is gaming, the best investment is a 4770k or 4790k, you are pretty much future proof for the next 3-5 years (debatable) if you get a good z97 motherboard. Why K? because lets say in the future you start lagging behind, just overclock a little bit to compensate. I dont know why people recommend xeons for gaming, they are not for gaming.

a 4930k is a waste for gaming unless you do huge renders, which that would be the purpose of a 4930k, "it can game, hell yeah it can render".



Because the E3 1230v3 is little more than an i7 4770 without the IGP for $50 less. ;) 
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June 6, 2014 10:15:23 AM

Yea it is pretty much the same thing. Probably the same chip exactly just with the IGP disabled. Seems odd to me kind of though, since I would think most Xeon based systems being targeted for servers would appreciate a small integrated GPU? Owell.

Again though if your GF doesn't play games, you might consider an LGA 1155 system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The plus to it is it has integrated graphics that are more than capable of any non-gaming work. Its pretty much an i7-3770 with a slightly lower clock speed (3.2Ghz vs. 3.4Ghz) and about $100 cheaper.
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June 6, 2014 12:43:50 PM

I wish I could choose all ur answers are my favorite lol. OK

Well here is what I plan on doing with it so that maybe it gives you more insight. I named it my gaming rig because I play game and she doesn't (which I got radical answers and found it awesome information I really appreciate it).

Things I'll be doing with my PC.

Personal related
-Streaming games to my mac once in a blue.
-Playing the latest games on highest (will 6 core help with unoptimized games? I've heard success stories from AMD users with 8 cores in unoptimized games).
-rendering game play videos (like using fraps to record then encode video for youtube).
-media streaming

School/work related
-Programming (C++, python, java/script)
-Minor model rendering
-minor level design
-I also plan to use Unity engine + Cry engine 3.

Thanks guys, sorry for putting info this late in the thread!
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June 6, 2014 1:06:37 PM

My suggestion still stands for both rigs. For what you are wanting to do, you are best off with i7 performance. Price/performance wise you cannot beat a 1230 v3. It will give you more $$$ to sink into other things.
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June 6, 2014 2:45:06 PM

Again I am similar to above.
AMD CPU, no way. Just for what you are wanting, its not right. They are great for enthusiasts on a budget, but thats it.

Xeon, for your GF, really not a question. It is clearly the best.

Your PC, again it is a little in the middle. The Xeon is by far the best in terms of Price/performance, and will game just like an I7. No question.
I miss spoke before, you shouldn't get a 6-core CPU. I would put it down to 3.
Xeon 1230v3
i7-4770k
i7-4790K

Honestly, best you rule out the i7-4770k. Either get the Xeon or the 4790k. The 4790k uses much better thermal paste on die, and is at 4Ghz by default, and should overclock better. The Xeon is great for the price, but since you will be getting close to 1Ghz faster CPU without overclocking I would say it might be smart to do it. After overclocking you could probably clear 5Ghz with the right cooler.

The choice isn't so black and white. Its $100 more:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

but it really decides what you want with it. I think that in 4 years its possible that extra 1Ghz could make a difference. Right now, its very unimportant though and has little effect. So its a tough call.
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June 7, 2014 8:55:17 AM

Once again thank You guys, I really appreciate all the responses!

I ended up getting the 4770k because I got a price I couldn't refuse 289.99 after IR from a private store. I also managed to find a great 150$ Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H, with G.Skill Ripjaws X Series RAm 8 GB.

Again these are Canadian Prices for me, so a lot of the options given above such as the v3 Xeon was about 40-60$ difference on average (309$) while the 4770k was 364.99$ in most retailers. I think I ended up with a good deal!

For my GF I did buy the v3 1239 though and will consider what video card and mother board.

If you guys have good ideas for a good workstation video card and motherboard let me know:) 
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June 7, 2014 9:10:35 AM

Sounds like you got a pretty good deal then :) 

For the motherboard I am not so sure, haven't looked up at them really since the new chipsets have came out. However for the GPU, go cheap with it. If she won't be playing games, all she needs is something which can play movies and web browse. My first thought would be an Nvidia 620/720/820 which is all the same card with a different name. I had one for playing games and it did well, and its pretty cheap. 630/730 for a little more power, but honestly she won't need it.

From AMD I am not so sure what would be best. The R7 240 should out power the Nvidia cards I jsut mentioned, but I don't know its price. They have other cards out,for low end but they are older designs and I just tend to not like them.
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June 8, 2014 2:14:43 PM

IInuyasha74 said:
Sounds like you got a pretty good deal then :) 

For the motherboard I am not so sure, haven't looked up at them really since the new chipsets have came out. However for the GPU, go cheap with it. If she won't be playing games, all she needs is something which can play movies and web browse. My first thought would be an Nvidia 620/720/820 which is all the same card with a different name. I had one for playing games and it did well, and its pretty cheap. 630/730 for a little more power, but honestly she won't need it.

From AMD I am not so sure what would be best. The R7 240 should out power the Nvidia cards I jsut mentioned, but I don't know its price. They have other cards out,for low end but they are older designs and I just tend to not like them.


Thanks for input, I ended up returning the Xeon CPU and motherboard and giving her the Intel 4770k with the built in 4600HD. I decded to wait till September to either make her a new system and keep the 4770k for myself or upgrade to the DDR4 based CPUs:) 

Thanks for all the help! The 4770k is an amazing cpu running on the 97X board:) 
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June 8, 2014 2:50:12 PM

Well its very unlikely that for gaming one of those 8-core DDR4 systems will perform more than 3 or 4 FPS faster than the 4770k. The DDR4 doesn't really help, as the expected speed of it is 2133Mhz, which you can already buy DDR3 RAM which runs at that speed and faster. It has more channels, but more RAM speed past 1333Mhz dual-channel shows very little improvement for most tasks.

Not to mention most games don't take advantage of a lot of threads. I think the most threads any game currently has the ability to use is 4 or 6. They haven't even tried to make use of more lately because they were targeted for gaming consoles which only recently managed 8 threads. Given that limitation and you want it as a gaming machine, its likely your girlfriend would experience a bigger speed boost from using this system than you would.

Not to mention the price for that CPU and the RAM and the motherboard is probably going to run you close to $2000 before even buying any other parts.
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June 8, 2014 2:58:13 PM

IInuyasha74 said:
Well its very unlikely that for gaming one of those 8-core DDR4 systems will perform more than 3 or 4 FPS faster than the 4770k. The DDR4 doesn't really help, as the expected speed of it is 2133Mhz, which you can already buy DDR3 RAM which runs at that speed and faster. It has more channels, but more RAM speed past 1333Mhz dual-channel shows very little improvement for most tasks.

Not to mention most games don't take advantage of a lot of threads. I think the most threads any game currently has the ability to use is 4 or 6. They haven't even tried to make use of more lately because they were targeted for gaming consoles which only recently managed 8 threads. Given that limitation and you want it as a gaming machine, its likely your girlfriend would experience a bigger speed boost from using this system than you would.

Not to mention the price for that CPU and the RAM and the motherboard is probably going to run you close to $2000 before even buying any other parts.


Oh sorry misspoke, I meant to say upgrade to a DDR4 system (they have 6 core as well:p ) or see if prices for DDR3 and CPUs shift a bit by then, maybe I can grab a 6 core 4930 for around 400$ by then etc:p 

Basically I'm going to wait out the market and try to push my i7 920 as far as I can for now:) 
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June 8, 2014 3:21:31 PM

But the memory controller is built into the CPU, and the 4930 only supports DDR3 RAM.
http://ark.intel.com/products/77780

To use DDR4 and the LGA2011-3 socket motherboard you will need a CPU supporting DDR4, which I think so far have only been reported as 8-core units.
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June 8, 2014 3:43:22 PM

Yes ofc, and a different socket all together. What I'm saying is, lets say DDR4 comes out, and I end up not thinking its a big deal or too expensive, and I end up going 4930, I'll just stick with DDR3:) (like I have a choice anyways) and skip out on DDR4 for a bit:) 
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