Best possible advice for creating a custom loop

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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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Hi all

I'm not a complete rig building noob, but I'm no guru either. To avoid this being a discussion I am not looking for many different opinions, I'm hoping that I can get a best possible solution from someone that really is a guru, as my opportunities at present to do research online are limited. If we can assume at present that I have reasons for the hardware that I am selecting - I don't want to debate AMD vs Intel, and whether my choices are overkill or not.
I need someone to help (actually to do most of the thinking) to create a very decent custom cooling loop. My planned components at present are:-

* Corsair 900D Case
* i7-4770k (in previous build and steady at 4.7Ghz previously) am considering the change to new Devil's canyon chip.
* Asus Maximus VI Extreme/Formula - undecided presently.
* 2 x EVGA GTX Titan Black Hydro Copper
* 4 x 8Gb G.Skill Trident X (either 1866 or 2400)
* 1TB Samsung Evo SSD (will probably also through in my existing 256Gb Samsung 840 pro and 2Tb Samung HDD)

There is a certain amount of flexibility as to what goes in, as I am desperately trying to avoid having any kind of bottlenecks to my system - but it's planned use will be as a 4K Surround setup for gaming, also it will be running a quite CUDA intensive architectural package (hence Nvidia over Radeon options, and Titans over 780ti's. No I don't have infinite money but this is a planned work (mostly) PC and I can get my parts cheaper than average on a reseller system, I can get my VAT back and I can afford to do this about once every 5 years (so that's my life history there).

My plan is to Overclock it to a reasonable degree, maybe with the option to do it somewhat more savagely at a later point. It will actually live mostly in a cooled and air-filtered cabinet so at this stage I'm not planning on any LED's or cable sleeving, just tidying for airflow purposes. Let's also assume cooling is the only important factor and noise isn't a priority.

Can someone super experienced talk me through (simple, slow and detailed) how to build the best possible loop for this? I need to know everything from best fan arrangement to best possible parts (sorry) please? For planning purposes, at present, we can assume a high budget - just no suggestions of Liquid Nitrogen. Massive appreciation to anyone that can help, I know I enjoy modding already, so I can see that this will become quite addictive. Sorry to repeat something that is probably asked quite regularly.
 
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kiezz
well a single titan on its own it would be recommended a 240mm rad some ppl will say you need to double that if you add another card and some will say you only need a 360mm rad for 2 cards, I guess its really how far you want to chase best performance but since you have no issue with the money involved in this project you should aim for an above average standard of cooling, thats why I suggested 2 loops it will prevent any flow rate issues from a large loop or cooling issues between gpu and cpu but it is twice the expense,

the gpu's on a single loop with a 360mm/480mm rad will be much much cooler than on air, the cpu you can use multiple different options of rad sizes to cool it, its my personal opinion (cause im sure people will...
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maddogfargo

maddogfargo

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For the more detailed water cooling loop advice I'm going to defer to others with more experience for your question.

One general rule of thumb I can offer is to get your radiators, pump, reservoir and hose first. Then do a dry fit to see how things will need to be laid out. This will help you see if you need a 90 or 45 degree fitting in places, where a quick release and drain or fill plugs would go, and where you can mount the pump and res. This will help you avoid wasting money on getting the wrong fittings and mounting hardware or mods.

Make a list, check it twice, order and pay once.


I will also add that you are definitely on the right track with your other system components. I would suggest you look at the Devil's Canyon i7, as it is the same price, has better TIM on the IHS, and faster stock speeds at lower temperatures than 4770k. It will definitely help you maximize your OC and cooling results for a custom loop.

Also, i7 4770k or the Devil's Canyon variant will scale very well with crossfire / SLI. So again, you're on the right track with these parts as your foundation.
 
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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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Thanks Maddog

The 4770k I already own, but reading about the Devil's Canyon made me think that it would be a better starting point for my new system.
From the research I have been able to do it would appear that 2 Titan Black Hydro Coppers will run a respectable frame-rate on a 4K surround set-up, so that is part of my reasoning to not choose 3x780ti's (original choice) and also the Titans will have the CUDA grunt that I will 'need'. I have the means currently to go for them but I wouldn't want to make a bad choice with regard to cooling options within my case (spacing between them I mean)..
I have read about various bottlenecks that people run into between GPU and CPU capabilities, with some RAM ones thrown in too.. I just want to build a rock solid machine that performs like a SOB. I might not have the option/choice/money to do so again for a long time, so I'm trying to build a little against future redundancy - hence it will realistically be somewhat overkill for a while. I'm willing to have as much as needed 'underwater' and as many fans/rads (in whatever config) to maximise it's cooling potential and therefore lifespan.
 
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kiezz

kiezz

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If your looking to overclock you needs lots of rad space and seperate loops for the cpu and gpu's, the cpu will need a minimum rad of 360mm to make it worthwile water cooling otherwise you may as well use a corsair h100 or similiar,
I haven't got much experience in water cooling 2 titans but id imagine 360mm + (maybe 2 x 220mm) rad at minimum
 
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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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How accurate is it that a double loop will be beneficial? The things that I have read, which includes the introductory sticky by Rubix, states that the gains are effectively minimal if at all.. Is that accurate only for simple loops? I need to know the cold hard facts as this seems to be quite open to opinion. I do appreciate your comment though.
 
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kiezz

kiezz

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Well unless you plan something like an external unit of a rad box with sufficent rad space the heat from your gpu's will negatively effect the cooling of the cpu, this is not open to opinion at all it is a hard cold fact.
To go to the effort and cost of watercooling your components you need to at least make it worthwhile if put the the gpu's and cpu on one 360 rad for 1 i reckon definitely not enough rad space and if you put it on 2 360 rads 1 loop your cpu will not have any benifit as the gpu's will negate the cooling of your cpu (rad positions in loop make very minimal effect if any) your looking at a large rad box to cover the system in 1 loop,
The cheapest way to make your system quiet maybe a large air cooler or all in one liquid cooler for cpu (which are pretty quiet and work to same standard as a 220 rad in most cases) and water cool the gpu's
 
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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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Hi Kiezz
Thank you for the comments. I am not worried about making it quiet and I'm not hampered terribly by the price. My reasons for querying so much is I would hate to do a double loop for the sake of a tiny improvement, but equally I'd hate to under-cool the system when I should have done it better to start with. Taken from Corsair site, these are my radiator options:-
Five radiator mounting points:
Front: up to 360mm
Top: up to 480mm (4 x 120) or 420mm (3 x 140)
Bottom side one: up to 480mm (4 x 120) or 420mm (3 x 140)
Bottom side two (with PSU installed): up to 280mm (2 x 140) or 240mm (2 x 120)
Rear: 140mm or 120mm
Up to fifteen total fan mount locations

I will do s single, double or triple loop (you know what I mean) if I can have a rock solid dependable machine. I don't want to get to a point in 2 years when I suddenly decide to put triple SLI Titan Z's (unlikely in the extreme, but you never know) and realise that I need to replace half of my rig.
If a double loop is best I will do it, I just need to actually know that it is. I hope you get what I mean here.
I included the radiator information as this case can have more radiators than almost any other on the market.
Thanks again.

 
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kiezz

kiezz

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well a single titan on its own it would be recommended a 240mm rad some ppl will say you need to double that if you add another card and some will say you only need a 360mm rad for 2 cards, I guess its really how far you want to chase best performance but since you have no issue with the money involved in this project you should aim for an above average standard of cooling, thats why I suggested 2 loops it will prevent any flow rate issues from a large loop or cooling issues between gpu and cpu but it is twice the expense,

the gpu's on a single loop with a 360mm/480mm rad will be much much cooler than on air, the cpu you can use multiple different options of rad sizes to cool it, its my personal opinion (cause im sure people will disagree) if you are going to the effort of water cooling it you need to look at minimum of 360mm rad space to make it anyway significantly better than air cooling or all in one liquid coolers,

the more rad space you have the quieter you can run your fans and with asus al suite you will actually be able to set it up to turn off fans automatically only bringing them on when needed,

there is variables on rad performances too as you get different depth rads 30mm/45mm/60mm obviously the bigger depth the extra performance but you need to take into account you will also have to use high static pressure fans on a 60mm depth rad which will probably have a louder hum than an ordinary set up,

again this is just my opinion but what i would do is get 2 of these http://www.scan.co.uk/products/alphacool-nexxxos-xt45-full-copper-480mm as you have the space for them, have 1 on your gpu loop and the other for the cpu,
 
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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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Hi Kiezz

Thanks for the info. It is definitely helping with my planning. Another question - instead of doing a second loop (just testing out different ideas) is there any percentage in running a single loop with 2 pumps in series? I know I will have a case that lends itself to WC and has plenty of room, but I am trying to think through most efficient use of the space, and plan with potential upgrades in mind.
Oh, by the way, I like that rad. That looks to be a serious bit of kit.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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Kiezz is correct!

The water cooled Titans are already overclocked out of the gate and 2 of them is going to produce some serious heat you don't want that SLI GPU load temperature added to the CPUs overclock or you'll limit how far you can overclock the CPU.

So 2 loops is my suggestion as well!

If you can keep them cool enough the water cooled Titans will not even need to be overclocked on your part as they will boost without throttling, and with enough radiator to dissipate their combined heat you won't even approach their throttling point.

Since you will be using the 900D I'm going to suggest to you side mounting or stand alone of a Watercool MO-RA3 to handle the GPU loop.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_457_912&products_id=29060

Side Mount Solution:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_457_912&products_id=29065

Stand Alone Solution:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_457_912&products_id=29066

180mm High Performance Cooling Fans:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...duct_info&cPath=36_327_1132&products_id=26261

CPU Radiator Solution bottom side mounted in the 900D:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata..._info&cPath=59_457_667_1075&products_id=34505

Reservoirs:

CPU Loop:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_318_657&products_id=26443

GPU Loop: This res looks great side mounted beside the MO-RA3.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_318_657&products_id=26444

Pump Solution: Need 2

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=28303

CPU Water Block: (This copper version comes with the machined aluminum top plate instead of the clear acrylic, which is much stronger.)

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata..._info&cPath=59_971_498_1124&products_id=33810

Now as far as your concerns this solution will do the job, you still need the 120mm fans, fan grills, fittings and tubing, etc.

Side mounted MO-RA3 on my machine.



Other ways the Watercool MO-RA3 has been mounted and used to give you some more ideas.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wat...IN5KayATN94DACA&ved=0CCUQsAQ&biw=1536&bih=744

 
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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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Hi!

Thanks for that.. This is definitely the sort of stuff I need - I guess I wasn't sure exactly what I needed to be asking, but I have such variance on 'facts' I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot. I have looked through all of the links and am already thinking about layout... I'm having to do this mostly hypothetical at present as I only want to plan and buy once.
I am happy to go the dual loop route - I have just encountered multiple articles that point to a 'negligible' difference with the dual over single. Would it be fair to say that in ordinary circumstances that single loop is best, but as I wish to overclock with 2 Titans involved, it is an extreme cooling requirement and therefore requires something more than 'normal'? The better I understand these things the less irritating I'll be (I promise)...
Can I ask for a few other pointers? Under the assumption that I intend to stick with the Titans (and in future, as required, add a third) is there actually some better component choices I can make here? I guess I specifically mean RAM, CPU and MOBO? I am trying to avoid any major upgrades (apart from storage) for a good few years.
Is there a best flow layout for the loops? I regularly read that it doesn't matter much as it balances, but again, I'd rather do the best/right thing for optimal cooling - as you suggest I would love to make the throttling point a distant prospect...... Oh and possible push for a higher figure on my CPU.....

As always, massive appreciation for anyone answering me. I could use the help and if anyone needs someone reconfiguring - that's more my current line of work. I haven't worked out how to overclock a human yet - but I'm working on it.
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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A lot of what you will read IE. water cooling stickies etc., is based on old information before we got these hot Intel CPUs that get quite hot when overclocked by themselves as I'm sure you've already discovered overclocking your 4770K.

I'll tell you the worst feeling you'll experience is to invest into water cooling and it doesn't do the job, my suggestions will do what you need, you can short cut it if you want, and end up regretting it later! :pfff:

The Watercool MO-RA3 will handle a 3rd Titan as well! :)





 
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Steeldemonuk

Steeldemonuk

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Hi

Ok I see what you are saying. I'm not being a dunce though am I? It is an external rad setup? Will this not then leave me with boundless empty space inside the case? or, is there a better things I can do with the space inside?
I did find that my 4770K got ridiculously hot in my first case, but I think that was partly down to airflow too.. My second case with it in was a corsair 540 and it seemed to run about 10c cooler just because of the open space (mild exaggeration but definite change just from swapping cases)...
 
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4Ryan6

4Ryan6

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That's one of the thickest 480 rads you can get, and you'll probably run 120mm fans on both sides of it, you would mount both pumps inside the case both reservoirs if you desired as well, putting the 480 at the bottom side of the case will force you to mount the power supply above probably?

This is just a suggestion. :)

You still need cooling fans for airflow over the motherboard, so it will fill up faster than you think

 
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