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Convincing someone that building your own > prebuilt

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June 18, 2014 6:01:16 PM

Hi, just let me start off by saying I've just recently joined and did not really know where to put this. Anyways, so after asking around for a GPU upgrade (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2185289/upgradin...) I came to my dad so that I could make a purchase (I'm in high school ATM). He said that he would not and would just buy a new prebuilt as our current computer is rather old. However, I told him that we should build our own instead. He told me that if I could convince him that building your own is better than getting a prebuilt, he would then tell me his budget and I could make a part lists and he would order them so we could build it. My problem is I don't know how to articulate my thoughts to him. Mainly because he knows very little about computers ( I don't know a lot either but I've been doing my research and know the basic components, well at least gpu, cpu, mobo, etc. ). For example I asked him about CPUs and he didn't know what it was. So basically I need help explaining to him what the different parts are and what their functions are and which are better (Solid state > hard drive) in a simple way that he can understand, as he wishes to know what each major component does as well. I also made a couple part lists that I'll be using as examples because he asked me to do so (New PC will be for gaming(me/Dad), office(Dad), school(me), streaming/uploading vids(me).
( Price includes OS, mouse, and keyboard, we will be reusing our monitor )
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/g7HQf7 about $850 ( CrossFire ready, OC )
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2zxNgs about $1000 ( CrossFire ready, OC )
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nsxNgs about $1100
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/QZPcRB about $1200( SLI ready )
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ygcFK8 about $1400 ( SLI ready, OC )
( He won't tell em exact budget but said he'll spend anywhere between 800 to 1500 )
Anyways your time and help will be really appreciated :) 
Thanks in advance :D 

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/CHbbvhq.jpg Here is a pic inside our current case. If you could point out what what is so I can show him that'd be great.
June 18, 2014 6:34:48 PM

This diagram should help.

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June 18, 2014 6:36:59 PM

It's a lot better to build your own pc rather then buying a prebuilt. I'll list some points:

- Quality parts that are well made, and are not some cheap chinese junk
- Lasts much longer than a prebuilt
- You learn how to build a computer
- Easily upgradeable
- Can configure it do to exactly what you want
- Does not come with a ton of crapware
- Generally looks much nicer
- Cheaper
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June 18, 2014 6:45:29 PM

RazerZ said:
It's a lot better to build your own pc rather then buying a prebuilt. I'll list some points:

- Quality parts that are well made, and are not some cheap chinese junk
- Lasts much longer than a prebuilt
- You learn how to build a computer
- Easily upgradeable
- Can configure it do to exactly what you want
- Does not come with a ton of crapware
- Generally looks much nicer
- Cheaper


Thanks, literally writing these out on a piece of paper xD any other pointers would be appreciated.
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June 18, 2014 6:50:21 PM

just have him look at the threads where folks spend money on trying to ''upgrade'' there prebuilt and see how well there money was spent.. then I like to give them this disclaimer on what may happen.....

some models of store bought computers [dell.hp,acer,ect..] may come with a ''locked'' bios and may not allow you to change certain hardware as a video card.. this is done to protect them from undue warranty claims and refunds .this is not done to hurt you but to protect them. you really need to see if that upgrade has been proven to work in your model first before you invest money in it .. there are a lot of these threads here at toms to look at some models will allow upgrades and some dont.. and a lot of guys here say ya ya ya when is really no no no...it would be sad you spent $200 on a card that wount post after you installed it as most find out. then get told its your psu and you spend more and end up right back where you are now, but its up to you good luck..


you got to know the the boards in these computers are not like the ones we use to do custom builds witch are open to upgrading with in the boards compatibly . the bios is custom made for there design and just for the parts they authorize to be used on there computers

bottom line is BUILD YOUR OWN
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June 18, 2014 6:56:40 PM

DroneDroneDrone said:
RazerZ said:
It's a lot better to build your own pc rather then buying a prebuilt. I'll list some points:

- Quality parts that are well made, and are not some cheap chinese junk
- Lasts much longer than a prebuilt
- You learn how to build a computer
- Easily upgradeable
- Can configure it do to exactly what you want
- Does not come with a ton of crapware
- Generally looks much nicer
- Cheaper


Thanks, literally writing these out on a piece of paper xD any other pointers would be appreciated.


Pointers in convincing him to build your own, or pointers on what each part does?
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June 18, 2014 6:58:00 PM

RazerZ said:
DroneDroneDrone said:
RazerZ said:
It's a lot better to build your own pc rather then buying a prebuilt. I'll list some points:

- Quality parts that are well made, and are not some cheap chinese junk
- Lasts much longer than a prebuilt
- You learn how to build a computer
- Easily upgradeable
- Can configure it do to exactly what you want
- Does not come with a ton of crapware
- Generally looks much nicer
- Cheaper


Thanks, literally writing these out on a piece of paper xD any other pointers would be appreciated.


Pointers in convincing him to build your own, or pointers on what each part does?


Need parts mainly now I think I can tell him enough one why building your own is better but he wants to know what the parts do.

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June 18, 2014 7:04:50 PM

WOULD BE NICE IF YOU AND YOUR DAD SPENT QUILITY TIME TOGATHER BY SITTING DOWN LOOK AT WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BUILD ORDER THE PARTS YOU BOUTH AGREED ON - THEN YOU BOUTH GO TO THE SHOP AND PUT IT TOGATHER AS A TEAM FIRE IT UP AND BE PROUD OF YOUR ACOMPLESHMENT .. ANYBOBY CAN JUST RUN TO WALMART AND CHUNK A CRAP PREBUILT IN THE CART .. BUT BUILDING YOUR OWN AS DAD AND SON THATS A MEMORY FOR A LIFE TIME.
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June 18, 2014 7:08:07 PM

CPU ( Central Processing Unit): Brain of the computer. It takes input from the pc, decodes it, and sends it out as output. Two ways you can measure it's speed. Hertz, which is the cycles per second and MIPS, millions of instructions per second. The two don't always relate, and the best way to see the actual performance is to view benchmarks of the CPU. Benchmarks run a stress test on the CPU for various programs, and are usually measured by a score or a time

GPU ( Graphics Processing Unit): A special component used to render graphics.

Motherboard: The main part which holds the CPU, RAM, Card that fits in a PCI slot, and connects to the optical drive and hard drives. Can also have a lot of other features.

HDD (Hard Disk Drive): Stores memory on the computer

RAM (Random Access Memory): Keeps information it needs to access readily available.

SSD ( Solid State Drive): Basically a faster hard drive. Very helpful in short boot up times and reduces loading times for various applications.

PSU: Provides electricity to power the computer. Sends out power through different cables.

Case: Holds all the other parts of the pc together.

Tried to condense it down so it would be easier to read, but for a more in depth view click here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?585525-Co...
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June 18, 2014 7:19:52 PM

Well the main parts are:

1. Motherboard - This is where you attach all the components.
2. CPU - This is the "brain" of the computer.
3. RAM - Not the same as a hard drive, because when you turn off the computer it will lose all of it data. To put it simply, think of it as the multitasking center. The more ram you have, generally speaking the faster your computer is when doing more than one task.
4. Video Card - You don't necessarily need one if you are only going to be doing light computing like browsing the internet and checking emails because the CPU usually has a built in graphics processor, but since you are wanting to build a PC I'm assuming that you want to do some gaming. So a graphics card or GPU allows your computer to do much more intensive graphical things like gaming or video editing.
5. PSU or Power Supply - This is what powers your entire system. There are two types modular and none modular. A modular PSU means that all of the wires that would connect to the components are not hard wired into the PSU. This allows you better cable management inside your case.
6. Hard drive - This is where are of your data is stored. Two choices, SSD (Solid State Drive) or your normal HDD (spining disk drive). SSDs are much faster than HDDs because there are no moving parts. Its kind of like a big USB flash drive, but much much faster. They are also coming down in price so I would definitely look into getting one. What you could do is get a small SSD like 80GB or 120GB for your operating system and your most used programs and have a bigger capacity HDD for everything else.

Hope that helps
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June 18, 2014 7:20:54 PM

RazerZ said:
CPU ( Central Processing Unit): Brain of the computer. It takes input from the pc, decodes it, and sends it out as output. Two ways you can measure it's speed. Hertz, which is the cycles per second and MIPS, millions of instructions per second. The two don't always relate, and the best way to see the actual performance is to view benchmarks of the CPU. Benchmarks run a stress test on the CPU for various programs, and are usually measured by a score or a time

GPU ( Graphics Processing Unit): A special component used to render graphics.

Motherboard: The main part which holds the CPU, RAM, Card that fits in a PCI slot, and connects to the optical drive and hard drives. Can also have a lot of other features.

HDD (Hard Disk Drive): Stores memory on the computer

RAM (Random Access Memory): Keeps information it needs to access readily available.

SSD ( Solid State Drive): Basically a faster hard drive. Very helpful in short boot up times and reduces loading times for various applications.

PSU: Provides electricity to power the computer. Sends out power through different cables.

Case: Holds all the other parts of the pc together.

Tried to condense it down so it would be easier to read, but for a more in depth view click here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?585525-Co...


HA I totally just missed your post and posted the same exact thing. lol
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June 18, 2014 7:30:57 PM

David Sigmund said:
RazerZ said:
CPU ( Central Processing Unit): Brain of the computer. It takes input from the pc, decodes it, and sends it out as output. Two ways you can measure it's speed. Hertz, which is the cycles per second and MIPS, millions of instructions per second. The two don't always relate, and the best way to see the actual performance is to view benchmarks of the CPU. Benchmarks run a stress test on the CPU for various programs, and are usually measured by a score or a time

GPU ( Graphics Processing Unit): A special component used to render graphics.

Motherboard: The main part which holds the CPU, RAM, Card that fits in a PCI slot, and connects to the optical drive and hard drives. Can also have a lot of other features.

HDD (Hard Disk Drive): Stores memory on the computer

RAM (Random Access Memory): Keeps information it needs to access readily available.

SSD ( Solid State Drive): Basically a faster hard drive. Very helpful in short boot up times and reduces loading times for various applications.

PSU: Provides electricity to power the computer. Sends out power through different cables.

Case: Holds all the other parts of the pc together.

Tried to condense it down so it would be easier to read, but for a more in depth view click here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?585525-Co...


HA I totally just missed your post and posted the same exact thing. lol


lol it happens
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June 18, 2014 7:37:05 PM

Thanks guys :)  I'll post later on whether i convinced him or not. He works afternoon shift 3-11.
EDIT: He may ask me to compare it to prebuilt at a similar price will post more if he decides to ask me or not.
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June 18, 2014 7:41:03 PM

junkeymonkey said:
WOULD BE NICE IF YOU AND YOUR DAD SPENT QUILITY TIME TOGATHER BY SITTING DOWN LOOK AT WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BUILD ORDER THE PARTS YOU BOUTH AGREED ON - THEN YOU BOUTH GO TO THE SHOP AND PUT IT TOGATHER AS A TEAM FIRE IT UP AND BE PROUD OF YOUR ACOMPLESHMENT .. ANYBOBY CAN JUST RUN TO WALMART AND CHUNK A CRAP PREBUILT IN THE CART .. BUT BUILDING YOUR OWN AS DAD AND SON THATS A MEMORY FOR A LIFE TIME.

lol
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June 18, 2014 7:58:18 PM

no lol about it ... lots of kids don't get a opportunity like that and one day when you got kids you can reflect back to that and give then a good story and life lesson. spend time with dad - learn something new - share thoughts - accomplish a goal - and have something to talk about and be proud of you or he wount be around forever you better try to get that time in wile you can
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June 18, 2014 8:13:31 PM

junkeymonkey said:
no lol about it ... lots of kids don't get a opportunity like that and one day when you got kids you can reflect back to that and give then a good story and life lesson. spend time with dad - learn something new - share thoughts - accomplish a goal - and have something to talk about and be proud of you or he wount be around forever you better try to get that time in wile you can

Yeah I know what you mean but the first time I read it I couldn't take it seriously because its in ALL CAPS (I usually only type in all caps when I'm being sarcastic/humorous) hence the lol. I do understand what you're saying though, I don't get to see my Dad often, especially when I was younger because he'd be gone for months ( he used to be a medicine salesman) on a business trip.
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June 18, 2014 8:17:36 PM

I did not look up to see cap lock was on till after I posted ... sorry I cant type and look up at the same time
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June 19, 2014 1:53:15 AM

Hmmm my Dad's not convinced yet :(  as a "final task" he's asked me to compare it to a dell prebuilt costing around $800 that comes with sound system, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Will get more on the specs tomorrow as it is late. So far all I know is that it has a 1TB HDD, 8GB RAM and it's some version of i5 ( I would assume that this is around 2.67 - 2.7 ghz not sure ). Will post more tomorrow and hopefully you guys can help me build what'd I assume to be a much much cheaper PC to match it (match performance not price)
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Best solution

June 19, 2014 7:00:43 AM

nothing to compare, like there motherboard its a dell designed board and dell controlled bios the prebuilt are sold as is your locked into dell support cant upgrade unless dell allows that so if something fails and dell don't replace it you may not just go to newegg and install a part you may not get a system disk in the end with prebuilt its you buy it as is you use it as is when it don't do as you like or want you chunk it in the trash and you buy another one .. sounds like dad don't want to be involved and prefers to just run to walmart and be done with it ..

not much more here to talk about prebuilt= closed locked bios and bios updates are at dell discretion and may not allow replacement or upgrade parts sold as is to only guaranteed to work with what it came with out of the box and is only supported for what it came with out of the box -- may not come with the OS disk or a recovery disk--

custom build = a real motherboard open bios upgrading with in the boards compatibility with parts ''YOU'' choose .. knowledge , experience , pride for you in doing your own .
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June 19, 2014 11:48:47 AM

Yeah I just asked around and got to this build it's 800- http://pcpartpicker.com/p/HM8CFT
Hopefully this will convince him that building your own is better and that he'll be okay with increasing his budget. If he's still convinced O could probably drop this to $600.
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June 19, 2014 1:25:25 PM

DroneDroneDrone said:
... So he showed me the prebuilt it practically this http://pcpartpicker.com/p/JKZ38d but at a $599 price tag with peripherals making it $800...


All the more reason to build your own pc.
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June 19, 2014 1:52:54 PM

SUCESS we're building our own now thanks for all the help :)  ( I just told him what junketmonkey said about Walmart and then got him with that) I have a build setup at out budget but I'll make a new thread in that.
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June 19, 2014 5:41:34 PM

well I hope it works out for you. just do your homework on the parts and insure compatibility. at the motherboards site look over the memory and cpu list . no need to go crazy with high end parts this is your first build and with well chosen parts for the board it should be for the most part plug and play [k.i.s.s].. as for me the cpu cooler is the hardest part getting the paste and the heatsink on with out a silly issue. alos when you get windows get a disk. you may want to read up on what windows is best for you [each version has a limitation of some kind , ultimate is the full deal and bill wants his money for it ]
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