3ds max, Vray rendering machine and/or render node

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t1M1

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Hi everyone!

So within the next month I am looking to buy me a new system. I use: 3ds max (vray), autocad, archicad, photoshop and of course i love gaming with good quality whenever i have time. I have no business, still a student, so I have no money for a Xeon or a quadro card.

At first i was thinking of getting a i7 six core system but with that price i thought maybe I could get one i7 4 core workstation and one i7 4 core render node, need some pro advice here.
I have a gtx 560Ti and a 8800gt at home so if u think that's enough just for viewport displaying and games on nice quality, it's fine with me.
I have tried OC but I'm not much experienced with it, would be great if u could find me some mobo with an automatic OC software or smth similar, which would run my system stable on full load while rendering.
As of ram, well I think it would be either 32gb or 2x 16gb depending on single or noded system, as of ddr2 or ddr3 I'll leave it up to you.
For the money I would go up to 1500 euros, less would be even better if possible. (best bang for buck appreciated).
I'm not up to date since around 2010 concerning PCs, so I haven't made any system myself to post here.

In short:

Approximate Purchase Date: within next month

Budget Range: up to 1500 (best bang for the buck)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Workstation (3ds max vray, autocad, archicad, photoshop), Gaming (newest)

Parts Not Required: I have a gtx560Ti and a 8800gt, peripherals, monitor.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: I'm looking to buy in store, in Germany. http://www.hardwareversand.de/ this site would be a good price reference.

Parts Preferences: Intel cpu

Overclocking: Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: No

Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 (possibility for 2 monitors)

Additional Comments: i7 12thread system vs i7 8thread system + i7 8threads node?
 
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bambiboom
t1m1,

You're very welcome.

With graphics card benchmarks, it's important to remember that the tests give importance to different aspects of performance. A gaming card is made to provide high frame rates, whereas a workstation card is oriented towards image quality. With a Quadro, renderings can have multiple lighting sources and higher anti-aliasing, and with a Quadro and ECC RAM, the shadows, reflections, and so on on much more accurate and free of artifacts. I tried a GTX 285 and the renderings in Sketchup (VRay) were not usable as they had tiny vertical lines attached to every polygon.

It's a complicated decision as the results are not known until the system is done, everything is installed, you learn how to use it and...
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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t1m1,

For your use, I would recommend for ideal results, a 5-core Xeon > ECC RAM > Quadro configuration, and it might (I can't find the price of the Xeon 1650 in DE) be possible for the 1500 € using a Xeon E5-1650 v2 > 32GB ECC > Quadro K2000. However, if you prefer>

From http://www.hardwareversand.de/ >

HVALTWMEDE Intel i7-4820K 3,7/ 3,9GHz Cache 10MB LGA2011 Tray 289,90 €
HV1133RTDE ASRock X79 Extreme6, Sockel LGA2011, ATX 186,89 €
HV30CM36DE Cooler Master Hyper 412S - Intel/AMD 34,39 €
HV20CT36DE 32GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance schwarz, DDR3-1866, CL9-10-9-27 287,90 €
HV203O06DE Corsair Carbide Series 400R, ATX, ohne Netzteil 89,86 €
HVR652CSDE Corsair VS Serie V650, Non-Modular, 80+ 51,93 €
HV1026WEDE Gainward GeForce GTX 770, 2GB DDR5 277,67 €
HV13W1CBDE WD Blue 1TB 6Gb's 49,81 €
HV12SEV1DE Samsung SSD 840 EVO Basic 120GB SATA 6Gb/s 64,99 €
HVZPCDE Rechner - Zusammenbau 29,99 €
HV207C2BDE LG CH12NS30 Blu-Ray ROM Bulk 52,88 €

Total value: 1.416,54 €
_________________________________________


NOTE : the above listing includes a GTX770 (2GB)

The above system could substitute for the CPU >

Intel Core i7-4930K, 6x 3.40/ 3.9GHz, bx, ohne Kühler Art.Nr.: HV20I93XDE HAN: BX80633I74930K > 506,81

in which example the system would cost > 1.602 €

> and if you started with 16GB RAM, the price would be less than 1500 €

All prices are delivery prices

created with hardwareversand.de PC Configurator:
http://www.hardwareversand.de/pcconfigurator

__________________________________________

I believe a Xeon > ECC > Quadro system is a better long term (die Zukunft ist jetzt!) choice as the Quadro drivers are for image quality instead of image speed such as are the GTX series. For example, the Quadro is able to make renderings using multiple lighting sources- not so with GTX- only one, much higher anti-aliasing- in Solidworks you can use x128, 10 -bit color, and u.s.w.

HVALTWMPDE Intel Xeon E5-1620v2 3,7 / 3,9GHz LGA2011-0 10MB EUR 265,59
EPC602D8A - ASROCK MAINBOARD C602 LGA2011 ATX 8xDIMM 12 SATA 1x REMOTE 2xGLAN EUR 320,00
HV30CM36DE Cooler Master Hyper 412S - Intel/AMD 34,39 €
KINGSTON 16GB (2X8GB) 1866MHz DDR3 ECC Reg CL13 DIMM DR x8 EUR 210,60
HV203O06DE Corsair Carbide Series 400R, ATX, ohne Netzteil 89,86 €
HVR652CSDE Corsair VS Serie V650, Non-Modular, 80+ 51,93 €
HP NVIDIA Quadro K2000 2GB Graphics von Hewlett-Packard EUR 351,99
HV13W1CBDE WD Blue 1TB 6Gb's 49,81 €
HV12SEV1DE Samsung SSD 840 EVO Basic 120GB SATA 6Gb/s 64,99 €
HVZPCDE Rechner - Zusammenbau 29,99 €
HV207C2BDE LG CH12NS30 Blu-Ray ROM Bulk 52,88 €

TOTAL = 1.521 €

NOTE that the above has 16GB RAM

The above, but with a fast 6-core Xeon >

HVALTWMRDE Intel Xeon E5-1650v2 3,5GHz LGA2011-0 12MB Cache Tray CPU 519,90 €

TOTAL = 1.767 € or use the GTX 560ti temporarily (minus the K2000) = 1.451 €

Something not listed is the Operating system. Will you need this?


Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2014) > Xeon E5-1620 quad core @ 3.6 / 3.8GHz > 24GB ECC 1600 RAM > Quadro 4000 (2GB)> Samsung 840 SSD 250GB /Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > AE3000 USB WiFi > HP 2711X, 27" 1920 X 1080 > Windows 7 Ultimate 64 >[Passmark system rating = 3923, 2D= 839 / 3D=2048]

Dell Precision T5400 (2008) > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @3.16GHz > 16GB ECC 667> Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) > WD RE4 500GB / Seagate Barracuda 500GB > M-Audio 2496 Sound Card / Linksys 600N WiFi > Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit >[Passmark system rating = 1859, 2D= 512 / 3D=1097]

2D, 3D CAD, Image Processing, Rendering, Text > Architecture, industrial design, graphic design, written projects
 
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t1M1

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well, thank you very much for your long answer.

Since you replied I did some research on the net, I found this benchmark: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+560+Ti
Seem like the closest quadro to the 560Ti is the quadro 6000 which is about 2.4k$... so I really think I could stick with my 560ti at first maybe later going for a 770/780 or smth like that. I like those systems you posted, removing the gfx would drop the price i suppose. Until I start a business I'm going to stay away from quadro. But Xeon might be a choice since I imagined it to be much more expensive.

Can you explain to me the benefit of getting a 6/12 Xeon over a 6/12 i7.. I saw that the mobo and ram of the xeon system are a lot more expensive and I'm not sure if that's worth it? I'm still in university and I have another 3 years ahead of me, so until then I'm not working to much.

depending on the system, if I have money left I'll get windows 7 (unless win8 has some sort of benefits to go for), i dont know which version though, if no money is left I'll install a cracked version for couple of months
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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t1m1,

You're very welcome.

With graphics card benchmarks, it's important to remember that the tests give importance to different aspects of performance. A gaming card is made to provide high frame rates, whereas a workstation card is oriented towards image quality. With a Quadro, renderings can have multiple lighting sources and higher anti-aliasing, and with a Quadro and ECC RAM, the shadows, reflections, and so on on much more accurate and free of artifacts. I tried a GTX 285 and the renderings in Sketchup (VRay) were not usable as they had tiny vertical lines attached to every polygon.

It's a complicated decision as the results are not known until the system is done, everything is installed, you learn how to use it and then do projects. I used ordinary graphics cards and Pentium systems from 1992 until about 2000 and once I was working on more complex projects, rendering, and then 3D I've always used Xeon > ECC. Quadro. There are issues too with programs that use viewports, so using Maya or Solidworks, may almost demand a Quadro or Firepro. I don't think Solidworks even runs on a GTX. Every architectural and engineering company I visit uses Xeon / Quadro workstations, even if the systems are older.

So, if you are a student, you might think of this system as lasting until you are finished with studies. But, consider that the projects and presentations will become more elaborate and require higher levels of technique and quality, so a system that can expand is important. That's why I suggest LGA2011 instead of LGA1150. You could make the i7 or Xeon E5 quad core system with the GTX 560 and later if necessary, change to a 6-core and Quadro. However, if the system has a motherboard that can use Xeons, it could last longer before replacement as with E5 Xeons, you can change to 6, 8, 10, and 12 core CPU's whereas i7 is limited to 4 and 6 core. I think in a few years, those doing CPU-based rendering will be buying more of the 8 and more-core CPU's. I use a Dell Precision with two 4-core Xeons for rendering, but the next system will have two 6 or 8 cores.

As for operating systems, I am going to be giving Windows 8 a miss completely and might buy 9 which I think is about 1.5 years away, but really 7 Ultimate does everything I need. For your use Win 7 Professional would be good.

Something I like to mention to those on a budget is the possibility of buying a used Dell Precision as these are very high quality and the prices can be very good > On Ebay DE >

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2x-HexaCore-Intel-Xeon-X5670-CPU-12x2-93GHz-HDD-1TB-/171361616522?pt=DE_Technik_Computer_Peripherieger%C3%A4te_PC_Systeme&hash=item27e5f2c28a

> for 1.200 €, there are two 6-core / 12 thread Xeons @ 2.93 / 3.33 GHz, 24GB RAM, Quadro 4000 (2GB), 1TB HD,, and Windows 7 Professional. When new, this system was probably 6.000 € and it saves researching, ordering, assembling, configuring, and testing a new system. I bought my Precision T5400 when two years old, added a 2nd CPU, RAM, and Quadro 4000 and it has been completely reliable for more than 4 years- also it is today worth more than 90% of it's cost. If you look for one of these, try to find a system with a pair of Xeon X5680 which is 3.33 / 3.6 GHz and a good Quadro like the 4000.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 
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t1M1

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BambiBoom,

I surely do see your point there. I really liked your suggestion to buy a used pc like the one you posted on ebay. Unfortunately, that one is on sale for another 3 days and I do not have the money right now. I might contact you again once I have the money and ask maybe for another great find like the one above.
My fear of sites like ebay is getting scammed. I cant think of anything worse than getting such a system with any malfunctioning part, that would be really expensive.

I really, really, appreciate your effort on this thread. Thank you again
 
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surfen281

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hi BambiBoom

...as i am looking for a new machine for Autocad Architecture, 3ds Max + VRay and Photoshop as well... i came across your great messages. :)
do you think it would be better to buy one of these used Dell Precision 7500 systems for about €1200,- on ebay or one of the new systems you suggested for about €1500,- (1620v2)

Thanx for your advice!
mARTin
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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mARTin,

I think much of the decision is based on the proportion of rendering to modeling. My solution was to have two systems, a quad core with a high clock speed (HP z420 with E5-1620 @ 3.6 / 3.8GHz) for modeling and a used dual quad core for rendering (Precision T5400 with 2X X5460 @ 3.16) that can sit in the corner and render while I use the higher speed system for modeling.

Still, as time has gone on, I tend to do everything on the z420 as the navigation of the big 3D models and doing the quick test renderings to get the lighting worked out are so much faster. I had a 105MB Sketchup model with 18,200,000 edges and 6,300,000 faces to do 30 renderings in VRay, and the T5400 was not too keen on the job and in fact wouldn't. The z420 seemed as fast with half the cores, and I attribute that to having the higher clock speed, 1600 speed RAM instead of 667 and the Quadro 4000 having 2GB, and a few more CUDA cores than the 1.5GB FX4800.

Overall, I'm thinking that in a year or so, I'll change the E5-1620 to a 6 core E5-1650 v2 @ 3.5 /3.9 and may even change to a Firepro W7000 (4GB) with much higher speeds and 1280 shaders to the Q 4000's 256 CUDA.

The advantage of the used system is that it's more nearly ready to use, and for the new system is that with LGA2011, it's possible to upgrade from 4 to 6, 8, 10, or 12 core CPU and with the right slot configuration add RAID controllers. Another interesting development is that the proprietary systems Dell Precision and HP are becoming quite high performance whereas they were formerly "conservative" perhaps for reliability. On Passmark Performance Test, there is only one workstation in the Top 100 scoring systems and it's an HP z820 with 2X Xeon E5-2687w and a Quadro 6000, both previous generation components. In the US, that would've been expensive- perhaps $12,000-$14,000.

If I were building a new system looking towards the next 5 or 6 years, I'd use a dual LGA2011 motherboard, but initially install a single Xeon E5-2643 v2 six core @ 3.5/3.8 and add a second CPU in two years or so. However, that's quite expensive. A 2643 v2 costs about £650 (Scan, UK) on it's own.

A very good cost / performance system could be made based on the Xeon E5-1650 V2- six-core @ 3.5 /3.9GHz. £544 Amazon UK. Of course, I'm fond of the E5-1620 v2 and if you aren't CPU rendering all day, it's very good- 3.7 /3.9 and £284 (Amazon UK).

So, a bit difficult to say something definite without knowing more about your uses and their proportions,budget and future plans. Let me know more and I will be pleased to offer suggestions.

Are you in the UK or on the Continent?

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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surfen281

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BambiBoom, thanks for your quick answer! :)
As I work as an architect (in Austria) i do my modeling in ACA (main work) and bring some projects into MAX and render there with VRay (no GPU Rendering) - sometimes postwork in Photoshop, Indesign, the rest of my work is ordinary office-Stuff.
I want to spend not more than €1.500,-
Right now I work on an i7 2600/128GB SSD/1TB Harddisk/16GB RAM/AMD FirePro V5900.
But I had some bluescreens and strange sudden shutdowns over the last weeks - so i think about having a new machine and rendering then with Distributed Rendering (my little renderfarm).
So the new one should be my working platform I think - what leads me rather to your 1620v2-system, right?

But for about €1.200,- the Dell T7500....? ....is it also just ment as a render-slave in your opinion? (as your T5400)

I hope my questions are not too dumb! :)
Thanks for your help! :)

mARTin
 
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bambiboom

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Grüß mARTin.

Overall, to have good performance, the most options for use, and the fastest way to be able to replace your failing system have the system the best results would be to find a good Dell Precision T7500. The best CPU used in the T7500 (which has the LGA1366 socket) is the Xeon X5680 @ 3.33/ 3.6GHz:

http://ark.intel.com/products/47916/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X5680-12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

> and if necessary, a second CPU may be added to the system. Adding a second CPU is etwas teuer because it requires a memory / fan / CPU riser and X5680 CPUs in the U.S. may still cost $400-500.

However, it seems that there are T7500's with two X5680's within your price, this one from eBay DE:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2-x-Intel-Xeon-X5680-6-Core-48GB-RAM-1TB-NVidia-Quadro-4000-/131247763733?pt=DE_Technik_Computer_Peripherieger%C3%A4te_PC_Systeme&hash=item1e8ef9f115

> a T7500 with dual X5680's, 48GB RAM, and Quadro 4000 (2GB) for EUR 1.299,00 oder preisvorschlag.

I have used a Quadro 4000 for about eight months and is very good, one must be careful of it running very hot. During rendering I saw the temperature at 105C. I have become interested in the Firepro W7000 (4GB) and am looking into used ones- about $550 in the US.

Such a system as the dual x5680 T8500 with 12 cores /24 threads at 3.33 / 3.6, 48GB RAM, and good Quadro should accomplish any work!

There are of course no guarantees on a used system, but the Dell Precision is beautifully designed and constructed to work all the time for years and years. My brother's architectural office has Precision 390's from 2004, that have run everyday for ten years without significant repair. I upgraded one of these systems a few months ago (1.86GHz CPU to 2.6, Quadro FX 550 to FX 1700, 2GB RAM to 4GB) and it had the original Hard Drive. My T5400, bought when it was two years old has run sometimes 24 per day since 2010 and never a failure.

The other option is to build a system- and that is very attractive in speed and future upgrades, plus, of course, the components are new. However, the time to research, order, assemble, configure, load programs, and test a new system has many possibilities to make long delays and distractions / frustrations. if your present system is making signs of failure, a good used system may be the best method.

If you are still considering the option to build a system:

BambiBoom PixelDozer Cadsolidworkarendgrapharific Blazomatic iWorkarama TurboScream 9000 ™$#©™_6.26.14

1. CPU > Intel Xeon Quad-Core Processor E5-1620 v2 3.7 / 3.9GHz 0GT/s 10MB LGA 2011 CPU, OEM> $295 (Superbiiz) (Passmark CPU score= 9199, rank = No. 38)

2. CPU Cooler > Cooler Master Hyper T4 - CPU Cooler with 4 Direct Contact Heatpipes > $30 (The Stock CPU coolers are supposed to be sufficient, but I've seen terrifying temperatures when rendering.)

3. Motherboard> ASUS Z9PA-U8 ATX Server Motherboard, C602 chipset, LGA 2011 > $289.99

____http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131915&Tpk=ASUS%20Z9PA-U8

4. 16GB RAM > (4) Kingston 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) ECC Registered Server Memory Model KVR16R11S8/4 > $188 ($47 ea)

5. AMD 100-505635(100-505842) FirePro W5000 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 CrossFire Supported Workstation Video Card > $430.

6. WD BLACK SERIES WD1003FZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive> $89.

7. CORSAIR CX series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply> $65

8. Case > LIAN LI PC-7B plus II Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $70.

9. Optical Dr > SAMSUNG DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA Model SH-224DB/BEBE - OEM > $20

10. Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional - 64-bit - OEM > $140


TOTAL = $1,650

Given the price difference US to Austria, I believe the above could be made within the EUR 1.500.

This system would be improved using an SSD for the operating system and programs, but that could be added later. I actually only see the SSD is faster to start, but during working the SSD is not a significant improvement.

Das gleiche alte Problem > Die Technik ist a Hund aber auch die Zukunft ist jetzt.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

P.S. Mit einer Gruppe von mein Architekturschule in London, hatte ich einen wunderbaren Besuch von einem Monat, um Oesterreich, mit drei Wochen in Wien und eine Woche in Salzburg. Wir waren in einem Otto-Wagner Wohnung Gebaude in der Naehe der Ringstrasse und Wiener Secession. Also hatte wir besuchte das Buero von Hans Hollein. Es ist das schoenste Land. -Fantastic!












 
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surfen281

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BambiBoom

...to get it right: will the graphics card (4000) get as hot during rendering as well when I just make VRay-Rendering? (no GPU-Rendering - no VRayRT - just CPU!)

with the T7500 with 2 Xeons 6 core....will i have 24buckets rendering for me?

is it possible to add a SSD-Drive as primary drive to the system?

Thanx!

mARTin

p.s.: Nice to hear that you like my country! ...and my language! :D
Maybe you have to tell me when you come to Austria the next time - you shouldn't miss "Graz"! :)
 
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bambiboom

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mARTin,

The Quadro 4000 is known to be quite hot as it is a single height card. The 105C I saw was only once while using VRay for Sketchup on my very complex model- and all 4 cores / 8 threads were working at 100% too. On other renderings I saw typically about 88-90C. There is an add-on cooling system "Gelid Icy Vision" costing about $50 and I've thought to try it.

An SSD is easy to add to the T7500 and I do this with my z420, a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD with Windows 7 Ultimate and the programs (175GB). Plus, I have a 10GB partition on the SSD and I load my present projects to that partition. The loading of the huge 2D CAD files is somewhat faster but the file saving is almost instant- much faster. Also, I arrange the the backup files to b sent to a mechanical drive (1TB Western Digital "Black") so there is always a new copy on a separate drive.

Yes, with two Xeon X5680 there are 12 cores and 24 threads- wunderbar und ausgezeichnet]. Plus, when not rendering, when there is a high demand, the first two cores of each CPU run at 3.6GHz- still today near the top high speed for a CAD system. That kind of system should be an excellent for everything: modeling, image processing/ editing and especially rendering.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

P.S. Yes, Austria is really my favorite place in Europe. It has the precision and landscape of Switzerland, the high intellectual and artistic culture of England and Germany, business is made a pleasure as do the Dutch, and the people enjoy life as do the French and Italians- but it 's much quieter! I do hope to visit again. I have a doctor friend in Innsbruck (who I met in Cambridge, England) and in London I stayed for a year in the house of a friend from Graz, who had a travel agency. It's interesting you mention Graz. I was at an art gallery a few weeks ago in Los Angeles. An artist from Berlin showed a photograph of a sculpture he had done a few year ago. This photograph was a metal sculpture being unloaded from a truck in a town square. I said to the artist, "Oh, I know that exact parking area in Graz." The artist thought I was a genius to recognize every parking area in the World, but I had to tell him that I saw the corner of a VW Polo with an Austrian license number beginning with the letter "G".

 
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surfen281

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BambiBoom! - NICE ONE!! :D - Smart people rule!! :D :) (austrian license number)

Well - then - i will contact the german ebay-shop for the system that costs 1.299,-
There are 6 Slots left for another RAM (compared to the system for 1.239,- )

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131247763733

Sounds good how you managed your SSD - I will give this some tests too! :)

BIG THANK YOU!!! (I'll post my experiences with this system later on!) :)

mARTin

p.s.: found another interesting offer:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2x-HexaCore-Intel-Xeon-X5680-CPU-12x-3-33GHz-HDD-1-5TB/181486121029?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D24201%26meid%3D8957716582661218771%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D10287%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D131247763733&rt=nc

what do you think?

 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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mARTin,

The T7500 for EUR 899 in Frankfurt might be a very good choice. As it is EUR minus 400 compared to the other one, you could sell the Quadro FX 3800 and combine that amount to buy a new Firepro W5000, a used W7000 (4GB) , or a used Quadro K4000 or 5000. There might be enough left over to buy the SSD. In other words, buying the less expensive T7500 and selling the FX3800 allows you to have a newer, better GPU than the Quadro 4000 and possibly the SSD also.

Aber, nuer 3 Stunden?

I'm not sure, the condition of the system in Okriftel may be a bit better, at least cosmetically.

Yes, I would like to know how everything goes. If you like, you can send a private message.

Cheers,

BambiBoom




 
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