Is my CPU all to blame?

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MatthewThomasWadling

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Okay, just got back into playing PC now, and have a bit of an issue with FPS, in most games.

Before i go on, here is my spec :

ASUS GTX660 2gb DDR5 OC
AMD FX4300 3.8GHZ quad core
BioStar A960D+
8GB 1333mhz Ram
500W PSU
1920x1080 AOC 23" LED monitor

Windows 7 HP 64bit


Okay so the issue is, before i got back into games i had a GT220 1GB DDR3 card, and i used to run everything on low, with good FPS in stuff like WoW, and Guild wars, it ran CS:GO on low very well too.

Got a GTX750 1GB DDR5 OC, and ran that for about 2 weeks before i worked out i had a faulty card, returned it and got another one, ran fine for another 2 weeks before i realised it was pretty underpowered. So returned it, and got a GTX660 2GB DDR5.

The card is much better, but as i was experiencing with the 750, i keep getting random framerate drops? as if the card or cpu is just dropping off for about 20 seconds then coming back?

For example in WoW, i can run Ultra settings at 40-50 FPS, but if i turn down the View distance i get more like 100 FPS, apparently view distance requires a more powerful proccessor, is this a reason for the low framerate? as my friend who has an i5, and a 660, runs wow 100 fps on ultra pretty much everywhere!

In other games too it does tend to have FPS drops but not so severe, fortunately, my brother has the same PC, so i tried my 660 and HDD in his PC, but its exactly the same!

Anyone has any ideas please let me know i am totally baffled!

Thanks :)
 
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genz


I'm not raging. I'm trying my best to answer a question :lol:

I know I'm an Asshole. I try my best, thank you!

If I said my stuff after you said yours then why was this post made before you had even come to the thread?

"This is all wrong. His cores are hitting 55C when they idle, it's not his CPU. CPU's only throttle when they overheat. Look a little harder before you advise next time. His lags are most likely coming from a slow HDD. That is why the speed of the CPU is going down to 1400mhz: There...
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InvalidError

InvalidError

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WoW, like most other games, depends heavily on single-threaded performance and Intel CPUs perform considerably better in that area.

Overclocking the heck out of your FX might help reduce the gap between your and your friend's PCs. AMD needs 20-30% higher clock to match stock Intel performance in lightly threaded workloads.
 
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MatthewThomasWadling

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So basically my CPU is a vital part of this 'single threaded performance'? (excuse me i am a total newb) and due to my CPU being...Gaaasshh, this is whats holding me back?

and my CPU never really gets above 45-50 degrees even under load, if i overclock through the BIOS, what damage could this cause?

Thanks for the quick reply!
 
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MatthewThomasWadling

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Do you think a 6300 would make that much of a difference?

Also any ideas on whats causing these FPS spikes? i found that they were worse in my brothers PC, than in mine, although all of the PSU/MOBO/CPU are the same :S

sooo confused :(
 
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leeb2013

leeb2013

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the 6300 won't make any difference to single threaded games like WOW, it just has 6 weak cores instead of 4.

OP run openhardware monitor, which will give you a graph of historical CPU, GPU and memory usage, you can then see what is the bottleneck (at 100%) when you have the frame drops.

FYI, AMD cores/threads are weak and Intel cores/threads are strong, but some high end AMD chips have 8 cores whilst Intel have 4. The FX-4300 has 4 weak cores, the FX-6300 has 6 weak cores, an I5 has 4 strong cores, and I7 has 4 strong cores + hypertheading (a way to effectively make 4 cores into 8 cores).

Some games only use 1 or 2 cores, so weaker cores will give worse performance than 1 or 2 strong cores.
Some games use 8 cores (eg. BF4) so 8 weak AMD cores will give similar performance to 4 strong Intel cores.
 
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axe1592

axe1592

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A 6300 would not make much a difference in WOW cause like the other guy said, its more of a single threaded, IPC game. Clock speed is what will help you a lot. Id try overlcocking to the mid 4's first and I bet that would help a lot. The GTX660 could also be a little bit of the problem as its not that great a video card but I think the biggest bunch of the blame falls on the CPU.
 
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MatthewThomasWadling

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Oh that makes alot more sense about the AMD/INTEL difference!

And also guys look, i think im onto the problem with FPS drops! i think my core keeps shutting down to idle mid game! i have played and then opened CPUZ whilst the fps drop and it shows the core is down to idle at 1400mhz! then when the lag is gone its back to 4000mhz!

What the hell could cause this?

Here are the screen shots!







and as you can see, same area and character did not move far, this was over the space of about 45 seconds, and the FPS is in the top left hand corner, sorry for the bad res not sure how it came out like that :S

Any ideas on how to solve this?
 
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leeb2013

leeb2013

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the CPU could also down clock if something else was bottlenecking the game ie, CPU was temporarily not needed eg. HDD, GPU, memory. I still recommend openhardwaremonitor, also check if your HDD light goes crazy at the frame drops.
 
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MatthewThomasWadling

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my PC has no HDD light :/ it seems to sit at around 45 degrees C under full load, could there be a setting in the bios i need to disable?

if the cpu was not needed, why would fps drop so low? :(

A960D+ is the mobo, what should i look for in the bios?
 
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leeb2013

leeb2013

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I was saying that if something else caused the frame rate to drop, like GPU, HDD, memory, then the CPU would throttle back as it wouldn't be needed so much during the frame rate drop. Just saying the symptoms could be another cause, it's not black and white.

Again, openhardwaremonitor would reveal this and if you have no HDD LED, then get an app that monitors HDD usage.

You don't need to disable "down clocking" or whatevers it's called in BIOS as all CPUs (Intel and AMD) are designed to down clock when not it use. You need to find out why it's temporarily not in use, as above..
 
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axe1592

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Id leave Cool n Quiet on. It really does a lot to help keep the CPU cool and your power usage down by running your idle cores at 1.4 GHz @ .85V.

Your CPU isnt downclocking while its being used. CPU-Z gives you the speed of only 1 core (the #0 core I believe) but its probably a different core that WOW is running on and that core is running at full speed. Fire up AMD Overdrive as its about the only monitor thatll show you the speed of all cores independently or the Gadget the All CPU Meter and youll see that its probably your 2nd or 3rd core that WOW is running on.

The problem is most likely that your CPU is running too slow. Get it running as fast as you can and youll see a difference. Look at this comparison between a 3.5 GHz 8320 and a 4.0 GHz 8350. Scroll down to WOW and youll see at 3.5, the 8320 is getting 80 fps. The 8350 which is the exact same chip but running 500 MHz faster is getting 91. Thats a 13% increase. So you get yours up from 3.8 to 4.6 and you could be looking at a 15-20% increase which would mean you could be up around 60 fps on Ultra.
 
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MatthewThomasWadling

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Ah okay! CPUz does give all 4 cores you have to click on the box though to show it, and i checked it shuts down all 4 to idle when the Lag arrives, but right now im sitting on desktop, idle, and its at 4.2ghz (yes it is slightly overclocked) and under full load, it does not exceed 51 degrees C.

so its idling, at 4.2 ghz, and i havent touched anything since last night, any ideas?
its staying at 4.2ghz and hasnt budged yet, at desktop and ingame, what could this mean?



Thanks alot everyone so far, you are really really helpful!

 
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axe1592

axe1592

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Keep on overclocking that thing. What kind of load are you using? Are you using a stress tester like OCCT (preferred) or Prime95? If not, you should be. Thatll put a whopper of a load on all your cores and really test for stability and cooling.

If youre still under 62C using one of those programs then you know you can go higher in speed and voltage. I suspect youre using stock cooling, if so its time to invest in something better. A Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo would be a great upgrade and usually under $30. It should be enough cooling to get you close to 4.4.

Thats what I think the problem is. I dont think anything is "broken" I just think your CPU isnt fast enough to run at Ultra settings at your resolution especially paired with a average video card. Youre getting CPU bottlenecked by its speed but youre also a little bottlenecked in terms of GPU horsepower as well.
 
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genz

genz

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This is all wrong. His cores are hitting 55C when they idle, it's not his CPU. CPU's only throttle when they overheat. Look a little harder before you advise next time. His lags are most likely coming from a slow HDD. That is why the speed of the CPU is going down to 1400mhz: There is nothing for them to do whilst they wait for the data they need to be transferred into RAM.

If it's not that, then download MSI Afterburner, and use the visualization to look at you GPU load. The CPU is in the clear if it is 55C and idling on lags. It should be maxing out.

Anyone that is talking badly about Cool and Quiet is either newish and has Power Settings in Control panel set to power saving, or is experiencing a bug that I KNOW does not exist in WoW. Not to mention your power usage for the CPU will go up around 450% in general use without cool and quiet.
 
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olddy

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genz

genz

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This is actually exactly what I was thinking is the issue in my mind, view distance. However, I think it's wrongly diagnosed. It's not the CPU needs that are causing the issue, it's the fact that every single object must be loaded into memory for that distance from the HDD. So whenever you trigger a large amount of the map to be loaded, suddenly your HDD is scrambling for the actual data needed to render all of the objects, or at least hold them in memory for rendering on-demand.
 
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olddy

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Your AMD CPU is a borderline CPU, but it is a good CPU, and may- be part of the problem, it should work quite well, up to 60 FPS with the GTX660, shame you did not try the Ti version, but, I would also consider the power supply not giving you constant power enough to run your rig, I would recommend no less than a 550w 80 bronze (try for better) for your set-up. Also for you to get more out of this rig, you should also consider the RAM, that CPU likes 1866mhz ram, I assume you need a better power supply based on your troubles with the other V/C. The GTX660 sucks power when you push it, far more than you would think. Also try removing your CPU, and cleaning it, reinstall, and use a good thermal paste, it may also suffer from heat, when you push it.
 
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Dan1982

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Usually with the AMD AM3+ chipset motherboards you can add just about any video card to it and have no problems, but, since you have an AMD FX4300 CPU (AM3+) it is probably that which is causing the problem. Perhaps go for one of the Radeon HD video cards which marry with the AM3+ chipset motherboards, they talk to each other a lot clearer, you should also upgrade the RAM from 1333mhz to 1866mhz (the configuration set for AM3+ chipset on your particular motherboard) that way you can at least underclock your RAM through bios settings back down to 1333mhz if needed so. Also check the maximum Wattage setting for your video cards, a 500W PSU sounds a little too low to run high end graphics, its should be at least 750W or more, try and go for a 850W.

There is nothing wrong with AMDFX and RadeonHD they are actually quite superior these days, I use AMD and run BF4 at maximum settings with little to no issues, most people are brainwashed after reading online about people supporting GTX series in the top spectrum of products, automatically assumes that RadeonHD is less than average, but honestly, it really does not make a massive difference anyway.

Unless you work for Pixar Animation Company, it does not really matter which one you buy.
 
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