Power surge - what is wrong?

Jacob Mennes

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Hello i recently had a power surge (The power shut off for about 10 seconds and came back on, fuse box didnt not shut off or anything) and left only my computer not working. Yes, everything in my house was un effected by the power surge. I had my computer plugged into a surge protector and my psu also has a surge protection on it...The other computer that was plugged into the SAME surge strip was uneffected (The computer was off at the time, fortunately). Now my computer will turn on, but will not beep or give signal to my monitor.

Whats working -
- Case fans on
- Case USB's working (never got to checking the back panel usb's, but my nvidia 3D vision sensor was blinking red...i just hooked it up to my other computer and apparently when it blinks like that its when it needs a driver but is on? Thankfully it still works!)
- Ram LEDs on the mobo are on, but my fancy ram isnt lighting up (ballistix tracers)
- Cpu fan turns on
- Gpu fan turns on (the gpu that was in that pc is now in this one, and it is fully functional
- All drives work (put them all into this pc, runs fine)



What i have done to try to fix problem -
Tried resetting bios (moving the jumper pin over)
Tried un-plugging the cpu power cables and mobo power cables, then plugged back in
tried switching ram slots (has tripple-channle ddr3, i moved the 3 sticks i had into the 3 other and made no difference)
Detached cpu cooler, the cpu showed no signs of damage.


My motherboard is a Asus P6T SE (intel 1366)

- What i need to know from you guys -
- Why is it not booting?
- Why would only my computer be effected? (I also checked the other computer that was plugged into the router via ethernet, that computer was uneffected...but im not sure if it was on or not.)
- What i can do to prevent this from happening again


Other possible useful info -
- Surge protector link - http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-TLP606-Protector-Outlet/dp/B0000AI0N1/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1405558371&sr=8-2&keywords=surge+protector
- The ethernet lights came on (the part that goes into the computer, the data leds)
- Keyboard and mouse leds never came on
- could charge my phone from case usb's
- Optical drive worked
- HDD sounded like it was working
 
Solution

Iron124

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Taken directly from your surge protector's description.

$20,000 Ultimate Lifetime Insurance; lifetime product warranty switch.

Call them, tell them the current jumped the surge protector, and they will have to reimburse you for damages. Assuming, of course, there's no technicality involved (which companies use a lot to save their own butts.)
 

Jacob Mennes

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Yes i do, but since only the motherboard is fried and nothing else in the whole house is damaged, can i even prove that it was an electrical surge?




Ya they have a crap ton of loop-holes. They send a "Electrical engineer" to come inspect if they are liable or not, and they wont cover the cost for the guy to come out if its not their fault....the amount of money it could cost to have them come out, i could just buy a new mobo...dont have money for it.

 

StirB

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Remove the power cord from power supply, remove the CMOS battery, and hold/press power button for 10seconds.

Other than that, I would see if you have warranty on it and don't mention the power surge because they might say its not their fault, if not go shopping for a motherboard, sorry :(
 

Iron124

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Yeah, that's unfortunate. Looked it up, and that was a pretty expensive motherboard in it's day. Even now, I can't find many boards that aren't ridiculous in it's price. You must have to pay a premium for a 1366 socket... . I would continue to look into insurance/coverage options, but sometimes, "stuff" happens...

 
Solution
When I had lightning strike my house in 2009 it randomly fried appliances in my home. It took out my A/C unit, my Wii, one of my TVs, one cable box, and traveled through my cable modem fried that, went through my router, fried that, and only decided to partially damage one PC connected via ethernet cable. It only took out the network adapter on one motherboard. So anyways, I called my insurance agent and she asked for a list of all the stuff, and I told her it was a homemade computer. She said the policy is for me to take the computer to the shop to get a written estimate. The shop charged $75 for diagnostics to tell me that it would be $600 for repair (on a $50 motherboard) and put that in writing. I sent my agent a copy of that and a list of the model numbers of the other stuff. She called me back the next day and cut me a check for like $3000 to either buy new stuff or get stuff fixed at my discretion.

A/C unit was my landlord's, TV was fixed for free under warranty, bought a new Wii, Comcast replaced the cable modem and cable box for free of course, bought a new router, and bought a $15 network card for computer with damaged network chip on motherboard.
 

Jacob Mennes

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Ya the problem is my step mom said the insurance wont cover it? i cant tell if she is just being stupid or if it really doesnt cover it.

re: Iron124

Yes it is a very high quality motherboard, especially when it first came out. Unfortunatly it is obsolete to windows 8 (had just installed it that day the mobo died, had windows 7 pirated :p) and not a whole lot of the extra things would work. This is a unfortunate reason to have to upgrade though.



I am contacting the power surge protector company, please keep the replies coming because everything truly helps. I will keep posted whether the surge protector company covers it or not, so far they seem nice but they are taking a few days between processes...which is also unfortunate, considering im on a time crunch to get it all checked.




Thanks everyone for the help, will be sure to come here instead of anyone else. I called geek squad and they couldn't give me ANY information over chat or the phone, told them that's why no one goes there anymore and haven't contacted them since, probably never will.

 

westom

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They had the same thing happen. Then I took the machine. Discovered a pullup resistor had failed in the power supply. This resistor has only one function - temporary power during power up. It probably failed previously in months of operation. But they assumed only from observation (also called junk science). Therefore assumed power loss was a surge.

To properly answer your question would specific information. You have two choiced. Keep replacing good parts until something works (the motherboard replace is based in that shotgun method). Or get a digital meter (ie may six quid from Maplin or free from a friend) to measure six wires. What follows is what has failed, why it has probably failed, and knowledge on how computers really work.

Those are your only two solutions. First requires plenty of mony replacing good parts. Second mean direction and one minute of labor to obtain numbers that recommend an informed solution.

BTW plug in protectors do not claim to protect from typically destructive surges (read its spec numbers). And sometimes can make surge damage easier. A completely different product, also called a surge protector means protection even from direct lightning strikes for about one quid per appliance. And the protector remains functional after each surge.

 

Jacob Mennes

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I contacted trip light and they were kind enough to send not only a replacement but actually ANOTHER (thats two items total, besides the original) that had an ethernet surge protector as well. The customer support gal said it sounds like i wont get reimbursed for my damaged hardware, and I couldnt wait around any longer for computer parts so i just bought new parts. I essentially just gave up because i only had so much time to send it in and the process of waiting for trip light and getting new parts. Thanks for all the help though guys!

Also, i researched that the only good way to ensure your computer doesnt get messed up is to get an un interupted power strip, usually a ups. I found this out because i was using my spare computer and my brother was messing with the breaker box and accidently kept shutting the breaker on and off...well my spare computer wouldnt boot, but i eventually found out that it was the motherboard overheating. So i am assuming that the outlet/breaker im on is just a POS and the only safe ways out is never having my computer on or buying a ups...im cheap.
 

westom

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Conclusions were made observation. Learn from the experience. First, a power off is not a surge. Power cycling does not damage any properly designed appliance. Especially not a computer. The challenge is constant. Name a part damaged by power cycling? Nobody does for one simple reason. Only wild speculation proves power cycling is destructive.

Second, a UPS says what it does for a surge. Read its spec numbers. It may claim hundreds of joules. A surge that can overwhelm protection already inside all appliances (including a computer) is hundreds of thousands of joules. Yes, the UPS does surge protection. Near zero protection. Just enough above zero so that a majority assume it does useful protection. Most ignore numbers to believe hearsay.

UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Power so 'dirty' as to be potentially harmful to motorized appliances (ie refrigerator). Since computers are so robust, then 'dirty' UPS power is ideal electricity. Again, due to superior protection already inside computers.

Third, heat is a diagnostic tool. A completely defective semiconductor might work just fine at 20 degrees C. But fail when warmer (at 30 degrees C). Heat does not cause failure. Heat is a diagnostic tool to find defective hardware that must work just fine even when a room is at 40 degrees C.

Fourth, a power strip protector is typically a $3 power strip with ten cent protector parts selling for how much? They can replace that obscenely profitable device and still have profits. Also read its specification numbers. It does not claim to protect from typically destructive surges. Claims of protection are so vague that most never learn this.

For example, protection already on Ethernet devices must withstand 2000 volts without damage. So what does running Ethernet through a protector do? Reduces signal strength. Read manufacturer specs to appreciate how tinier (near zero) that Ethernet protection is. Conclusions by ignoring spec numbers is classic junk science reasoning.

Fifth, no fuse or breaker protects hardware. Breaker trips AFTER an appliance is damaged. So that a damaged appliance does not create a fire. Breakers are for human safety; not for transistor safety.

Sixth, we could have known more and solve problems faster (immediately) had a meter and one minute of labor been used. Useful conclusions need numbers.

Seventh, why are so many less robust devices (clocks, GFCI, smoke detectors, CFL bulbs, furnace,etc) not damaged? Those were not connected to a power strip protector. Therefore were not connected to something that sometimes can bypass its internal protection - make damage easier.
 

Jacob Mennes

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Ya i actually just had another computer go out, just today. I think it has something to do with the electricity in the outlet or something, im not an electrician so i will never figure out why. This is pretty damn frustrating.
 

westom

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" Sixth, we could have known more and solve problems faster (immediately) had a meter and one minute of labor been used. Useful conclusions need numbers." Without those facts, then others who can best assist are silenced. It's not that hard. Ignoring what is necessary to avert such problems can create frustration.
 

Jacob Mennes

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What exactly would i be looking for?

n if i would know where to start with the issue then i would have done so. Im not gonna spend every day of my life trying figure out what the hell is causing my computers to fry. I think it might be a ground issue, but i have no clue how to check that. I dont even know how it could be that considering there is a specific function on my surge protector that tells me whether its grounded or not. Yes this could be flawed, but i could slip on and hit my head on the sink and die, but that's not probable either. Its not my house, I could end up spending thousands on just rewiring the house.

 
Check pole to pole for 120v and each pole to ground for 120v. If there it is less than 110-120v or zero then you have some problems and you should call your landlord because a short can cause a fire very easily. It's not hard to isolate the short and run a new wire, but that is something the property owner needs to hire a licensed electrician to do. Your course of action is simply to identify whether or not you have good 120v at the outlet.

I rent an older home that my landlord remodeled but much of the wiring was bad, and also some of the circuit breakers were bad. Luckily I'm an electrician.
 

westom

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That ground indicator can report a defective 'safety' ground. But cannot say a 'safety' ground is good. And says nothing about 'earth' ground. Safety ground is completely irrelevant to protector operation. And does not explain that computer failure. Another ground (earth ground) is required for a protector - that also completely irrelevant to the original computer anomaly. Surge was discussed only because wild speculation assumed a blackout (a zero voltage) was somehow a surge (ie thousands of volts). Earlier posts described why a protectors was irrelevant to a computer's anomaly.

Anyone can try this, do that, suspect grounds, fix a BIOS (that has no relationship to symptoms), spend big bucks on a UPS that does nothing for hardware, swap RAM (that does not effect power up), keep disconnecting and reconnecting cables, or keep buying new computers. Or do what was recommended to have a useful conclusion in only minutes. At what point does a best and fastest solution finally become obvious?

Two choices exist. Keep replacing good parts until something works (motherboard replacement was based in that shotgun method). Or get a digital meter to measure six wires. Request instructions. Post those numbers. Then have a complete answer from the fewer who know this stuff - without speculation. A next reply can say what has failed, why it has probably failed, how to avert future damage, and knowledge on how computers really work. Knowledge that obviously does not yet exist; as demonstrated by so many irrelevant questions and assumptions. So many previous suspects (ie RAM, surge, etc) have no relationship to that computer's anomaly. A solution can be implemented immediately. But only if that recommendation is implemented. Resulting in numbers.

Computer symptoms say nothing about AC receptacle voltages. Meter was not for measuring receptacle voltages. RAM and CPU are also irrelevant. Get a meter and request instructions to finally have a useful answer.

Otherwise, just keep replacing good parts on wild speculation. RAM, CPU, BIOS, safety ground, surge, SPU heatsink, visual damage etc are irrelevant to power on. Two options exist. Either use a meter to get numbers so that others (who know this stuff) can provide assistance. Or just continue changing things that have no relationship to the originally posted symptoms.

You do not know where to start? Posted repeatedly was where to start.