Speeds aren't guaranteed!!

tambeshakunt · Jul 19, 2014

Hey everyone,

I just sold an SSD on eBay and the buyer has received it. I had fully tested the drive and it was barely used.

The problem is, although Sandisk advertise speeds of up to 300MB/s, the buyer says he wants a refund because he is only getting 200MB/s. Clearly, the 300 is not guaranteed and varies based on systems and specs.... right!!?

Now the buyer is demanding a refund, how can I explain to him that it is system dependent etc...

Thanks so much in advance for the help.

COLGeek · Jul 19, 2014

Send him a direct link of the specs (from the manufacturer) for the performance of the SSD. You can't be held accountable for the capability of the buyer's system. For all you know, his system is a clunker or configured improperly.

Things that could cause a slow down in performance includes, running the SSD in SATA IDE mode, connecting to a SATA2 port vice a SATA3 port, connecting to a non-native (like Marvell) SATA3 port vice a native AMD or Intel SATA3 port.

How much do you know about the buyer's rig and config?

Dunlop0078 · Jul 19, 2014

Well while 300MB/s is not guaranteed i would think at least 270MB/s would be i personally would be very disappointed with only 200MB/s on something thats advertised as 300MB/s.

Dunlop0078 · Jul 19, 2014

COLGeek :

Yah i take it back this guy is probably right he most likely has it plugged into a mobo that only supports SATA 2

tambeshakunt · Jul 19, 2014

COLGeek :

Thanks so much for your support.

In the original ebay listing, I had already included the official sandisk website link and that is what he is using to hold against me.

I have no clue of his system and hence I have offered to take a look at his specs if he sends them to me. I am willing to check the bottlenecks etc with regards to SATA ports and outdated hardware.

It is not a fault in any way, so I can't refund.

Thanks for your help with this.

COLGeek · Jul 19, 2014

You are welcome. Good luck!

tambeshakunt · Jul 19, 2014

COLGeek :

JohnnyLucky · Jul 19, 2014

Did the buyer ever send you the brand and model of the motherboard?

Which SanDisk model did you sell the buyer? Did you do a secure erase before selling it?

I was surprised at the number of individuals who purchase a brand new solid state drive without checking system requirements and motherboard specifications. We see it quite often in this forum.

Typically we find some buyers who complain about lack of performance because they incorrectly assume the synthetic benchmarks that ssd companies post are correct. They are called synthetic benchmarks for a reason. They are not real and do not accurately reflect real world performance. The settings can be manipulated to present an ssd in the most favorable light. In addition, ssd companies very very rarely publish settings and test configurations.

We also have mistakes individuals make:

1. Failure to check if a motherboard actually supports modern 3rd generation solid state drives. We still have individuals with motherboards that only support SATA 2 3Gb/s ssd's.

2. Failure to enter the system BIOS and enable ACHI mode. Just recently we had an individual with a really ancient motherboard and system BIOS that did not have an ACHI option. That's really old!

3. Failure to check specifications for a motherboard's onboard SATA controller. Usually there is no problem with a newer Intel chipset. Problems usually pop up with older motherboards that have a separate onboard ssd controller.

4. Failure to optimize the operating system.

5. Failure to optimize the ssd.

6. Failure to download and install the latest system BIOS, chipset drivers, and if furnished, the latest ssd utility.

7. Using a cloning application to transfer the contents of a hard drive to an ssd. Cloning applications work reasonably well but things can go wrong. Sometimes glitches develop. That's why a fresh clean install is the preferred method.

8. Failure to understand bandwidth (data transmission) limitations. The transmission of data between the motherboard and the ssd is limited. Not all systems transmit data to and from an ssd at the same rate.

I maintain the ssd database listed in a sticky at the very top of this forum section. Here is the link:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

Scroll down to the SanDisk section and find the model you sold. Follow the links to the technical reviews. There might be something interesting.

I am a senior citizen and I am growing old disgracefully. Sometimes I forget stuff but I seem to recall several technical reports about motherboards and bandwidth / data transmission rates. I think Tom's Hardware published a report about half a dozen motherboards all using the same ssd. Data transmission rates were different for each configuration. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

tambeshakunt · Jul 19, 2014

JohnnyLucky :

Did the buyer ever send you the brand and model of the motherboard?

Which SanDisk model did you sell the buyer? Did you do a secure erase before selling it?

I was surprised at the number of individuals who purchase a brand new solid state drive without checking system requirements and motherboard specifications. We see it quite often in this forum.

Typically we find some buyers who complain about lack of performance because they incorrectly assume the synthetic benchmarks that ssd companies post are correct. They are called synthetic benchmarks for a reason. They are not real and do not accurately reflect real world performance. The settings can be manipulated to present an ssd in the most favorable light. In addition, ssd companies very very rarely publish settings and test configurations.

We also have mistakes individuals make:

1. Failure to check if a motherboard actually supports modern 3rd generation solid state drives. We still have individuals with motherboards that only support SATA 2 3Gb/s ssd's.

2. Failure to enter the system BIOS and enable ACHI mode. Just recently we had an individual with a really ancient motherboard and system BIOS that did not have an ACHI option. That's really old!

3. Failure to check specifications for a motherboard's onboard SATA controller. Usually there is no problem with a newer Intel chipset. Problems usually pop up with older motherboards that have a separate onboard ssd controller.

4. Failure to optimize the operating system.

5. Failure to optimize the ssd.

6. Failure to download and install the latest system BIOS, chipset drivers, and if furnished, the latest ssd utility.

7. Using a cloning application to transfer the contents of a hard drive to an ssd. Cloning applications work reasonably well but things can go wrong. Sometimes glitches develop. That's why a fresh clean install is the preferred method.

8. Failure to understand bandwidth (data transmission) limitations. The transmission of data between the motherboard and the ssd is limited. Not all systems transmit data to and from an ssd at the same rate.

I maintain the ssd database listed in a sticky at the very top of this forum section. Here is the link:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

Scroll down to the SanDisk section and find the model you sold. Follow the links to the technical reviews. There might be something interesting.

I am a senior citizen and I am growing old disgracefully. Sometimes I forget stuff but I seem to recall several technical reports about motherboards and bandwidth / data transmission rates. I think Tom's Hardware published a report about half a dozen motherboards all using the same ssd. Data transmission rates were different for each configuration. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

Hi jhonny,

Many thanks for your detailed and thorough response.

I sold the Sandisk SDSSDP-064G-G25 SSD and yes, I did secure erase using parted magic before selling. I am pretty sure the buyer is not aware of the complexities involved, as you and I know of.

Thanks for your reply anyway!

JohnnyLucky · Jul 19, 2014

How a motherboard's onboard storage controller affects ssd performance - 12 SATA controllers benchmarked:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/storage-controller-performance-ssd,3540.html

Does Your SSD's File System Affect Performance:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-file-system-ntfs,3166.html

tambeshakunt · Jul 19, 2014

JohnnyLucky :

Thank you!!

JohnnyLucky · Jul 19, 2014

You're welcome!

benedictorange · Jul 19, 2014

I'm with you on this one because of the nature of SSDs. Most of us here at Tom's understand that the performance specs for many of these types of product is not accurate when compared to real world results, this is notoriously true for SSDs. It's kind of like when you purchase case or radiator fans. The advertised noise level often displayed in dB is almost never accurate of real world performance in my experience, but I know this beforehand.

However, please get it out of your head that "this claim of wanting 'advertised speeds' is ridiculous!!", when making a purchase of any product, receiving what was advertised is in no way ridiculous.

Y0GI · Jul 19, 2014

What program did the manufacturer use to determine the performance benchmarks? Different programs can have vastly different results. Tell him to try testing it with ATTO.

Yogi

JohnnyLucky · Jul 19, 2014

Y0GI - Excellent point!

hibbanyb · Jul 20, 2014

JohnnyLucky :

Did the buyer ever send you the brand and model of the motherboard?

Which SanDisk model did you sell the buyer? Did you do a secure erase before selling it?

I was surprised at the number of individuals who purchase a brand new solid state drive without checking system requirements and motherboard specifications. We see it quite often in this forum.

Typically we find some buyers who complain about lack of performance because they incorrectly assume the synthetic benchmarks that ssd companies post are correct. They are called synthetic benchmarks for a reason. They are not real and do not accurately reflect real world performance. The settings can be manipulated to present an ssd in the most favorable light. In addition, ssd companies very very rarely publish settings and test configurations.

We also have mistakes individuals make:

1. Failure to check if a motherboard actually supports modern 3rd generation solid state drives. We still have individuals with motherboards that only support SATA 2 3Gb/s ssd's.

2. Failure to enter the system BIOS and enable ACHI mode. Just recently we had an individual with a really ancient motherboard and system BIOS that did not have an ACHI option. That's really old!

3. Failure to check specifications for a motherboard's onboard SATA controller. Usually there is no problem with a newer Intel chipset. Problems usually pop up with older motherboards that have a separate onboard ssd controller.

4. Failure to optimize the operating system.

5. Failure to optimize the ssd.

6. Failure to download and install the latest system BIOS, chipset drivers, and if furnished, the latest ssd utility.

7. Using a cloning application to transfer the contents of a hard drive to an ssd. Cloning applications work reasonably well but things can go wrong. Sometimes glitches develop. That's why a fresh clean install is the preferred method.

8. Failure to understand bandwidth (data transmission) limitations. The transmission of data between the motherboard and the ssd is limited. Not all systems transmit data to and from an ssd at the same rate.

I maintain the ssd database listed in a sticky at the very top of this forum section. Here is the link:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

Scroll down to the SanDisk section and find the model you sold. Follow the links to the technical reviews. There might be something interesting.

I am a senior citizen and I am growing old disgracefully. Sometimes I forget stuff but I seem to recall several technical reports about motherboards and bandwidth / data transmission rates. I think Tom's Hardware published a report about half a dozen motherboards all using the same ssd. Data transmission rates were different for each configuration. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

If you check the MAXIMUM speed write for this model SDSSDP-064G-G25 in this link : http://www.sandisk.co.uk/products/ssd/sata/standard/ ( Click on the specification button and look at the maximum write speed for this 64GB model ) it will say that 200 Mb/s is the maximum by the MANUFACTURE, so is it possible to EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed ?

The seller mentioned in the ad "write of up to 350MB/s" when the manufacture clearly states " write speed upto 200mb/s " , so the buyer is confused about how can a SSD EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed.

MrCasualGamer · Jul 20, 2014

Hey ! I would also suggest that you send the buyer link to this whole discussion .. if he is open for suggestions, he can get some great help here for sure !

ToMs RoCks !

COLGeek · Jul 20, 2014

hibbanyb :

JohnnyLucky :

If you check the MAXIMUM speed write for this model SDSSDP-064G-G25 in this link : http://www.sandisk.co.uk/products/ssd/sata/standard/ ( Click on the specification button and look at the maximum write speed for this 64GB model ) it will say that 200 Mb/s is the maximum by the MANUFACTURE, so is it possible to EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed ?

The seller mentioned in the ad "write of up to 350MB/s" when the manufacture clearly states " write speed upto 200mb/s " , so the buyer is confused about how can a SSD EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed.

Okay, we have seen your post (now 4 times). No need to keep adding it to every previous post. Good catch on the actual specs of the SSD in question. Well done.

hibbanyb · Jul 20, 2014

MrCasualGamer :

Ohwell , i am the buyer,

If you check the MAXIMUM speed write for this model SDSSDP-064G-G25 in this link : http://www.sandisk.co.uk/products/ssd/sata/standard/ ( Click on the specification button and look at the maximum write speed for this 64GB model ) it will say that 200 Mb/s is the maximum by the MANUFACTURE, so is it possible to EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed ? Could you explain how it works, especially when the company tested it and they have mentioned that speed write UPTO 200 Mb/s.

The seller mentioned in the ad "write of up to 350MB/s" when the manufacture clearly states " write speed upto 200mb/s " , so the buyer is confused about how can a SSD EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed.

MrCasualGamer · Jul 20, 2014

tambeshakunt :

JohnnyLucky :

Did the buyer ever send you the brand and model of the motherboard?

Which SanDisk model did you sell the buyer? Did you do a secure erase before selling it?

I was surprised at the number of individuals who purchase a brand new solid state drive without checking system requirements and motherboard specifications. We see it quite often in this forum.

Typically we find some buyers who complain about lack of performance because they incorrectly assume the synthetic benchmarks that ssd companies post are correct. They are called synthetic benchmarks for a reason. They are not real and do not accurately reflect real world performance. The settings can be manipulated to present an ssd in the most favorable light. In addition, ssd companies very very rarely publish settings and test configurations.

We also have mistakes individuals make:

1. Failure to check if a motherboard actually supports modern 3rd generation solid state drives. We still have individuals with motherboards that only support SATA 2 3Gb/s ssd's.

2. Failure to enter the system BIOS and enable ACHI mode. Just recently we had an individual with a really ancient motherboard and system BIOS that did not have an ACHI option. That's really old!

3. Failure to check specifications for a motherboard's onboard SATA controller. Usually there is no problem with a newer Intel chipset. Problems usually pop up with older motherboards that have a separate onboard ssd controller.

4. Failure to optimize the operating system.

5. Failure to optimize the ssd.

6. Failure to download and install the latest system BIOS, chipset drivers, and if furnished, the latest ssd utility.

7. Using a cloning application to transfer the contents of a hard drive to an ssd. Cloning applications work reasonably well but things can go wrong. Sometimes glitches develop. That's why a fresh clean install is the preferred method.

8. Failure to understand bandwidth (data transmission) limitations. The transmission of data between the motherboard and the ssd is limited. Not all systems transmit data to and from an ssd at the same rate.

I maintain the ssd database listed in a sticky at the very top of this forum section. Here is the link:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

Scroll down to the SanDisk section and find the model you sold. Follow the links to the technical reviews. There might be something interesting.

I am a senior citizen and I am growing old disgracefully. Sometimes I forget stuff but I seem to recall several technical reports about motherboards and bandwidth / data transmission rates. I think Tom's Hardware published a report about half a dozen motherboards all using the same ssd. Data transmission rates were different for each configuration. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.

Hi jhonny,

Many thanks for your detailed and thorough response.

I sold the Sandisk SDSSDP-064G-G25 SSD and yes, I did secure erase using parted magic before selling. I am pretty sure the buyer is not aware of the complexities involved, as you and I know of.

Thanks for your reply anyway!

+1 .. very useful website mate. thanks.

COLGeek · Jul 20, 2014

hibbanyb :

Welcome to Tom's Hardware Forums. Please stop posting the same response to every comment made in this thread. As you can see, the actual model number was included well after the thread was initiated. You pointed out the actual specs for the device in question. Nothing really left to debate then, is there?

hibbanyb · Jul 20, 2014

COLGeek :

Sorry about posting it many times, as each user were different i thought i would send it to each user, sorry about that.

Nothing more left to debate, thanks anyway

MrCasualGamer · Jul 20, 2014

hibbanyb :

MrCasualGamer :

Ohwell , i am the buyer,

If you check the MAXIMUM speed write for this model SDSSDP-064G-G25 in this link : http://www.sandisk.co.uk/products/ssd/sata/standard/ ( Click on the specification button and look at the maximum write speed for this 64GB model ) it will say that 200 Mb/s is the maximum by the MANUFACTURE, so is it possible to EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed ? Could you explain how it works, especially when the company tested it and they have mentioned that speed write UPTO 200 Mb/s.

The seller mentioned in the ad "write of up to 350MB/s" when the manufacture clearly states " write speed upto 200mb/s " , so the buyer is confused about how can a SSD EXCEED the MAXIMUM write speed.

Hello ! ..

Sequential Write (up to) 200 MB/s under 64 Gb .. like you said

looks like your troubles are solved i guess .. cheers =D

COLGeek · Jul 20, 2014

hibbanyb :

COLGeek :

Sorry about posting it many times, as each user were different i thought i would send it to each user, sorry about that.

Nothing more left to debate, thanks anyway

Understood. I deleted 3 of the posts. All members can see what is posted. They are individually notified when a thread they are following is updated.

Speeds aren't guaranteed!!

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