How is current pentium faster than the core 2 quad?

Ashish Joseph

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I know that the pentium has about 50% higher single threaded performance than the core 2 quad, so it should only be as fast as a core 2 quad using 3 cores, and a C2Q using 4 cores should be 33% faster than the pentium.
when using 1 or 2 cores, pentium >> c2Q
when using 3 cores, pentium ~ c2q
when using 4 cores, c2q >> pentium
Shouldn't that make the c2q a lot faster when using all cores?
 
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You also have to account for the motherboard and chipset architecture, which make a huge difference in the overall speed of the system. I think the problem with your argument is that you're oversimplifying, per-core performance is just one factor in the equation

pierrerock

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keep in mind that when cores works together, they need to share information which need to pass by cache memory. So if you take in account communication between cores latency, you cannot simply consider single thread performance to gauge multi threaded performance.

As A FX 8350 will do about 25 % less good than an I5 single threaded but will only get seemingly identical performance in multi-thread even if it has 8 cores.
 

Ashish Joseph

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Aren't amd cores weaker because they use modules? Every second core in the module will be automatically weaker than the first core, because the resources of each module are shared between the 2 cores, and the fact that there is only one floating point processor for each module
 

Ashish Joseph

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I know 50% is too high, that is why i compared it to 3 cores. And i was referring to situations where 4 cores are used, doesn't newer games use 3 and 4 cores(i don't mean all games). So when 4 cores are used on a single software, shouldn't the core 2 quad outperform the pentium?
 

Ashish Joseph

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As far as i know, pcie 3.0 won't make a difference for low - mid gpus, and the high end gpus will get bottlenecked by either cpus anyway

 

woworwow

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What graphics card are you using to test the processors?
And try testing the processors with BF4. That game can use all cores in a processor.

 


You also have to account for the motherboard and chipset architecture, which make a huge difference in the overall speed of the system. I think the problem with your argument is that you're oversimplifying, per-core performance is just one factor in the equation
 
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Ashish Joseph

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I guess you are right. I actually thought 4 cores would mean nearly 4 times the performance when using 4 threaded applications. Well, i didn't get the first part, could you please explain(mobo and chipset architecture)
 

LookItsRain

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I think the bigger reason is how the programs are optimized, most cant use more than 2 cores, and if you look at the g3258 review from tom's, the OC 3258 keeps up with an i5 4690k in optimal conditions. Companies dont want to spend the money and resources to optimize programs for multicore systems.
 


As I've tried to explain many, many times now, most of the work done by CPUs is serial code. The stuff that is parallel is typically done by the GPU, not the CPU. There's very little you can actually thread in a way that actually increases performance.

This is nothing new. There were tons of systems in the 70's that pushed massively parallel processors as the way to gain performance in the future. By the 80's, all were defunct. And the reason then is the same now: You can't make serial execution parallel.

That's why, in a game like BF4 that uses >10 threads, a 2 core i3 3220 can perform close to an 8 core FX-8350. Even though the extra cores should theoretically help, the 2 core chip is fast enough to get a similar amount of work done over the same time span. The fact you are doing more at once on the FX is offset by the longer period of time it takes to finish each individual thread.

That's why I laugh every time I hear people asking why AMD doesn't produce a 16-core desktop processor.

*Is a Software Engineer with 8+ years of practical coding experience.
 

LookItsRain

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Then explain why an 8350 destroys an i5 4690k in most desktop applications. Tthe coding exist in those applications, why not games.
 

Fidgetmaster

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Battlefield 4 isn't the best example....More cores/threads cause a noticeable higher latency/stutter.... Runs a lot better just off of 4....despite bf4 being able to utilize extra threads/cores.... my 920 Oced to 3.8-4ghz runs it waaay better with HT off....
 


HTT was redesigned starting with SB chips. The problem with the "old" HTT is the HW resources are shared, and if it wasn't used right, a HTT core could stop a physical core from being able to process code, which KILLS performance. This is less of a problem starting with SB, but for older chips, such as the i7 920, HTT hurts more then it helps. And yes, this would show up in the latency spikes you saw with HTT on; its occurring when a HTT core is blocking a physical core from executing.
 


Not really. They trade blows for the most part.

Some stuff you can make parallel really easily. Anything that has to do with file conversion or encoding, for instance. That's simply a matter of creating a bunch of threads to work on a small part of the file at a time. Simple. But these days, you see this stuff being GPU accelerated, because why limit yourself to 8 cores when GPUs have hundreds?

For games, it is near impossible to make things parallel. First of, you have the various parts of the engine that need to share a large amount of information while maintaining the same global state. And anytime you have multiple things that require access to the same physical memory, you can not thread well, because every time a thread needs to change the state of some of the contents in memory, you have to put a software lock in place, which stops the other threads from executing, defeating the purpose of threading in the first place.

That being said, you can thread individual parts of the engine very well. Rendering is almost always GPU accelerated, because the process of rendering is massively parallel. Same with Physics, which is much faster to compute on the GPU. AI? Not so much. Audio? Why bother? And what's left is mostly serial code that can't be made parallel under ANY circumstances.

Games have threaded about all they can. The only real enhancement that's obvious is, once graphical API's have a decent way to make multithreaded rendering work, you will not be forced to have one very large thread dedicated to rendering, but on stronger CPU's, that won't cause any performance increase.

Point being, games are already significantly threaded, as the entire rendering backend and the entire physics backend are GPU accelerated. The stuff that's left can't be made parallel. It's really that simple. When you look at games like BF4 or Cysis 3, and look at the extra threads they use, they're ALL threads dealing with DX processing. None of the other parts of the code have been made parallel, because the other parts of the code CAN'T be made parallel.
 

VenBaja

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This is even more true in multiplayer games, which is why the higher IPC of Intel's CPU's really help in large online games. There is very little known to the CPU up front in order for it to run tasks in parallel. All of the information being fed to your system about your character and other players and what's going on around you is happening dynamically. Sound, ballistics, character movements, collision detection, etc...is all being done in serial. Having games better optimized for multiple threads does not mean that a 4-core CPU is going to be worse off, especially if that quad core can rip through tasks faster than the 8-core CPU. If all 4 cores on your CPU are below 100% utilization, they're obviously keeping up with whatever workload is being thrown at them with room to spare.